Author Topic: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?  (Read 7798 times)

Tank

  • Fed up with stupid.
  • Administrator
  • Excellent and Indefatigable Guardian of Reason
  • *****
  • Posts: 29801
  • Gender: Male
Re: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?
« Reply #165 on: March 28, 2017, 06:53:10 PM »
Life as an athiest is liberating. We don't need to answer to anyone, follow anyone's rules.
Yeah, like Ted Bundy and Adolf Hitler and Pol Pot.
You've had one vacation for trolling. If you carry on like this you'll get another one.
So t's ok to point out the crimes of theists, but pointing out the crimes of atheists is prohibited.  Got it.
No you don't, but you will. Arturo was not accusing theists of anything. He was expressing his personal feelings. You then compare him to three mass murders. Not acceptable. Two of those people weren't even atheists. And the third did not carry out his atrocities in the name of atheism to further the the aims of some atheist dogma, because such dogma does not even exist. Given the mass murders, mutilations and destruction done specifically to further assorted dogmas of assorted religions the hands of atheists are clean while those of religionists drip with blood.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
“Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt.” ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Magdalena

  • Butterfly of Doom.
  • Don't Pray in My School, and I Won't Think in Your Church
  • *****
  • Posts: 7885
  • Gender: Female
Re: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?
« Reply #166 on: March 28, 2017, 07:35:34 PM »
Oh, Dredge:smileshake:
Your lying is getting out of hand.

Does your god have access to the internet?

Sandra Craft

  • Surprisingly OK
  • Global Moderator
  • The Cure for Boredom is Curiosity. There is No Cure For Curiosity.
  • *****
  • Posts: 8924
  • Gender: Female
Re: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?
« Reply #167 on: March 28, 2017, 09:36:28 PM »
I think Dredge may be using "atheist" in the sense that fundamentalist Xtians often do -- as anyone (including other Xtians) who do not practice very specific forms of Xtianity. 

This is how some Xtians can claim to be former atheists even tho they always believed in the existence of the Xtian god.  What they actually mean is they weren't good Xtians, or weren't the specific type of Xtian they now are.
Sandy

  
"I think this is the prettiest world -- as long as you don't mind a little dying, how could there be a day in your whole life that doesn't have its splash of happiness?"  from The Kingfisher, by Mary Oliver

Arturo

  • Do Something Crazy!
  • Has an Invisible Dragon in Their Garage
  • *****
  • Posts: 3023
  • Gender: Male
  • Atheist, Humanist, and Champion
    • Arturo The1  リ壱
Re: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?
« Reply #168 on: March 28, 2017, 10:18:37 PM »
Dredge is using familiar tactics. Familiar to me in a way that I think is useful. He is using epistimology to question whether our values are valuable or not. "Why have empathy? Sharks don't have empathy" Sharks aren't social. "Why be social?" As if being social is something to be scorned. Then when he creates enough doubt, he comes in as the beacon on hope that all that pass through his gates will be saved. I've seen it a million times.

"I'm not arguing against it" But you are Dredge, and you've clearly demonstrated you can form an argument, and have mentioned that you understand philosophy. So don't lie. Especially when you demonstrated that you don't understand any philosophy one day, then show up as if you just went through a crash course the next day. You don't understand philosophy, you just cherry pick the parts that are useful to you as weapons of brain washing.


     It's Okay To Say You're Welcome
     Just let people be themselves.
     Arturo The1  リ壱

Magdalena

  • Butterfly of Doom.
  • Don't Pray in My School, and I Won't Think in Your Church
  • *****
  • Posts: 7885
  • Gender: Female
Re: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?
« Reply #169 on: March 29, 2017, 12:13:29 AM »
...weapons of brain washing.
I like that.  :grin:

Arturo

  • Do Something Crazy!
  • Has an Invisible Dragon in Their Garage
  • *****
  • Posts: 3023
  • Gender: Male
  • Atheist, Humanist, and Champion
    • Arturo The1  リ壱

     It's Okay To Say You're Welcome
     Just let people be themselves.
     Arturo The1  リ壱

Tank

  • Fed up with stupid.
  • Administrator
  • Excellent and Indefatigable Guardian of Reason
  • *****
  • Posts: 29801
  • Gender: Male
Re: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?
« Reply #171 on: March 29, 2017, 06:33:20 AM »
I think Dredge may be using "atheist" in the sense that fundamentalist Xtians often do -- as anyone (including other Xtians) who do not practice very specific forms of Xtianity. 

This is how some Xtians can claim to be former atheists even tho they always believed in the existence of the Xtian god.  What they actually mean is they weren't good Xtians, or weren't the specific type of Xtian they now are.
You could well be right. The thing is he is clueless about atheists. Maybe he may learn something here. One can but hope.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
“Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt.” ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Dave

  • Formerly known as Gloucester
  • Wears a Colander Hat for Special Occasions
  • *****
  • Posts: 6207
  • Gender: Male
Re: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?
« Reply #172 on: March 29, 2017, 07:47:52 AM »
I think Dredge may be using "atheist" in the sense that fundamentalist Xtians often do -- as anyone (including other Xtians) who do not practice very specific forms of Xtianity. 

This is how some Xtians can claim to be former atheists even tho they always believed in the existence of the Xtian god.  What they actually mean is they weren't good Xtians, or weren't the specific type of Xtian they now are.
You could well be right. The thing is he is clueless about atheists. Maybe he may learn something here. One can but hope.

Tank, I will give £100 to a charity of your nomination if there is any evidence that Dredge comes, sincerely, to any kind of rational understanding of the  natures of belief and unbelief. I very much doubt that he fully understands his own beliefs since he uses common formulas of argument - that we can only really answer with re-iterstions of our own formulas
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.

Tank

  • Fed up with stupid.
  • Administrator
  • Excellent and Indefatigable Guardian of Reason
  • *****
  • Posts: 29801
  • Gender: Male
Re: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?
« Reply #173 on: March 29, 2017, 12:41:56 PM »
I think Dredge may be using "atheist" in the sense that fundamentalist Xtians often do -- as anyone (including other Xtians) who do not practice very specific forms of Xtianity. 

This is how some Xtians can claim to be former atheists even tho they always believed in the existence of the Xtian god.  What they actually mean is they weren't good Xtians, or weren't the specific type of Xtian they now are.
You could well be right. The thing is he is clueless about atheists. Maybe he may learn something here. One can but hope.

Tank, I will give £100 to a charity of your nomination if there is any evidence that Dredge comes, sincerely, to any kind of rational understanding of the  natures of belief and unbelief.
I very much doubt that he fully understands his own beliefs since he uses common formulas of argument - that we can only really answer with re-iterstions of our own formulas
How could we tell? I don't trust a word he writes anyway. I just think he's just here for the shits and giggles.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
“Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt.” ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

Dredge

  • Doesn't Believe in Mother Goose
  • *
  • Posts: 157
  • Gender: Male
  • I am a Roman Catholic who is fascinated by atheism
Re: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?
« Reply #174 on: March 30, 2017, 07:39:34 AM »
I think Dredge may be using "atheist" in the sense that fundamentalist Xtians often do -- as anyone (including other Xtians) who do not practice very specific forms of Xtianity. 

This is how some Xtians can claim to be former atheists even tho they always believed in the existence of the Xtian god.  What they actually mean is they weren't good Xtians, or weren't the specific type of Xtian they now are.
You could well be right. The thing is he is clueless about atheists. Maybe he may learn something here. One can but hope.

Tank, I will give £100 to a charity of your nomination if there is any evidence that Dredge comes, sincerely, to any kind of rational understanding of the  natures of belief and unbelief. I very much doubt that he fully understands his own beliefs since he uses common formulas of argument - that we can only really answer with re-iterstions of our own formulas
I've heard that the Help Dredge Buy a New Car Fund is a very fine charity.
Follow the evidence wherever it leads.

Dredge

  • Doesn't Believe in Mother Goose
  • *
  • Posts: 157
  • Gender: Male
  • I am a Roman Catholic who is fascinated by atheism
Re: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?
« Reply #175 on: March 30, 2017, 08:09:32 AM »
Life as an athiest is liberating. We don't need to answer to anyone, follow anyone's rules.
Yeah, like Ted Bundy and Adolf Hitler and Pol Pot.
You've had one vacation for trolling. If you carry on like this you'll get another one.
So t's ok to point out the crimes of theists, but pointing out the crimes of atheists is prohibited.  Got it.
No you don't, but you will. Arturo was not accusing theists of anything. He was expressing his personal feelings. You then compare him to three mass murders. Not acceptable. Two of those people weren't even atheists. And the third did not carry out his atrocities in the name of atheism to further the the aims of some atheist dogma, because such dogma does not even exist. Given the mass murders, mutilations and destruction done specifically to further assorted dogmas of assorted religions the hands of atheists are clean while those of religionists drip with blood.
I didn't mean to compare Arturo to the ugly three - that is your mistaken interpretation.  I was attempting to point out that if humans have no fear of God, they are "free" to behave as they see fit, which could have nasty consequences.
------------------------------
Atheism is a core tenet of Communism; the two can't be separated.  So to kill for Communism is to kill for atheism - and Communists killed on a scale unprecedented in history.

Ted Bundy acted as though he had no fear of God or eternal damnation, which is hardly the sign of a Christian.  Actually, he acted like someone possessed by the devil ... not what you'd expect from a holy Christian boy.

Hitler was baptised a Catholic when he was a tiny widdle baby.   But as far as I know the adult Adolf wasn't a believer in or a follower of Jesus Christ. 
Follow the evidence wherever it leads.

Dave

  • Formerly known as Gloucester
  • Wears a Colander Hat for Special Occasions
  • *****
  • Posts: 6207
  • Gender: Male
Re: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?
« Reply #176 on: March 30, 2017, 09:52:22 AM »
Dredge wrote:
Quote
Atheism is a core tenet of Communism; the two can't be separated.  So to kill for Communism is to kill for atheism - and Communists killed on a scale unprecedented in history.

Yes, numbers are significant in quantifying blame, the serial killer is viewed with more hatred than the person who kills one other. Is that the whole of the story though?

There are leaders and followers and the latter can have a "group personality", which can manifest as "mob rule". In groups humans can subsume  their personal values into the "group personality". This could include retribution for suppressed or hidden, real, inculcated or imagined, complaints, insults, hurts. It is not "Me" that is committing the crime but "We" who are justified in our actions.

This also applies to the crusaders who, if you asked them, fought for their god who was, of course, on their side - their priests and leaders told them so, all their lives and on the eve of battle. The larger the population, the more effective the propaganda of the leaders - political, economic or religious (usually a combination with a little "personal attitide" thrown in) - the larger numbers involved the larger the crime. Also the more authoratarian the regime sanctioning the actions, religious regimes being amongst the most authoratarian in history, the stronger the effect and the justification felt by the hoi poloi.

Stir "national personality" into the mix and it gets worse!

Yes, Hitler, Stalin and Pol Pot, all, arguably, suffering from mental illness, are easily chosen out of recent history. They are fine examples of what happens when humans with distorted but dominating personalities get power. Religiously motivated massacres are, in essence, the same beast, motivating the worst in human nature. So the Popes, historically, have a lot to answer for as well. Putin is, even now, cultivating the Russian Orthodox Church - and thus its dedicated followers.

And the "atheist" Nazis were either not actually atheists or knew, very well, the power of religion to motivate the sheep-like masses (as has been done since religion developed probably.)




Etc.

So, to kill for god is justified?

PS, thank you, Dredge, for your first post that exhibits a proper debating attitude and construction.

Later: A somewhat more beligernet view of the "Hitler was an atheist" controversy and other nasty people.

I have never been much of a fan of RD, or, perhaps more precisely, of his more ardent followers.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2017, 11:00:07 AM by Gloucester »
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.

Recusant

  • Miscreant Erendrake
  • Administrator
  • Guardian of Reason
  • *****
  • Posts: 5898
  • Gender: Male
  • infidel barbarian
Re: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?
« Reply #177 on: March 30, 2017, 10:49:12 AM »
Dredge, ignoring the post in the other thread won't make it go away.
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
— H. L. Mencken


Davin

  • Don't Pray in My School, and I Won't Think in Your Church
  • *****
  • Posts: 7103
  • Gender: Male
  • (o°-°)=o o(o*-°)
    • DevPirates
Re: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?
« Reply #178 on: March 30, 2017, 03:32:33 PM »
So, the fear of punishment by a god is the only thing that prevents people from behaving badly.

I imagine that the Catholic priests that molested and raped little boys would never have done so had they been religious.
I'm sure the higher ups that moved them around only to allow them to molest and rape new groups of young boys would never have done so if they only religious.
I'm sure that the fear of god is what prevented the Spanish Inquisition.
Would the crusades ever have happened if those in control were religious?
Gott mit uns? If only those Nazis would have found religion.
All those doctors that provided safe abortions that were blown up or otherwise murdered would still be alive if their attackers only found religion.

Meanwhile, the countries that are least religious suffer under a thriving economy, lower crime rates, fewer incarcerated, a higher happiness index, and better education. Those poor heathens.

Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.

Magdalena

  • Butterfly of Doom.
  • Don't Pray in My School, and I Won't Think in Your Church
  • *****
  • Posts: 7885
  • Gender: Female
Re: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?
« Reply #179 on: March 30, 2017, 07:40:59 PM »
...
I was attempting to point out that if humans have no fear of God, they are "free" to behave as they see fit, which could have nasty consequences.
...
Is this what you would do, Dredge? Would there be nasty consequences if you didn't fear god?  :worried: