Author Topic: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?  (Read 9494 times)

Arturo

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Re: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?
« Reply #105 on: March 21, 2017, 05:32:09 PM »
Only someone utterly lacking in empathy could be having a hard time with this.
Empathy.  Why is it necessary to have empathy?  A shark lacks empathy but survives just fine.  If a shark doesn't need empathy, why should a human?

We would all kill each other that's why.
So what?  What makes you think humans need to exist?

Why are you questioning their need to exist? Do you think they all need to be wiped out?

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Dredge

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Re: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?
« Reply #106 on: March 22, 2017, 06:22:14 AM »
You said there's no way atheists can have any sort of morality without direction from God ...
Wrong.  Show me where I said that.

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... and ought to running around killing babies ...
Wrong.  Show me where I said that.

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... because it makes no difference.
According to evolution and the "science" that you base your atheist life on, all life is meaningless bcoz it is the result of a series of meaningless accidents; no life needs to exist in the first place; and a human life is worth no more than the life of, say, a mosquito - therefore killing a baby is as trivial and "immoral" as killing a mosquito.  And it would matter if all babies were killed and the human race became extinct, because your "science" says no life needs to exist, let alone human life.

-------------------------
My query about empathy doesn't mean I think it's worthless.  I merely want to know how empathy is worth something according to "science", since "science" forms the basis of the belief systems of most Western atheists.
Follow the evidence wherever it leads.

Dredge

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Re: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?
« Reply #107 on: March 22, 2017, 06:36:35 AM »
You will never convince someone about God with this argument because it is horrible and it just makes you look like a crazy asshole, the more you argue that we shouldn't care about murdered babies. I know you're trying to make a point, but it's not working. All you have to do is open your eyes and notice reality.
I don't like talking about killing babies, but I'm trying to point out the logical implications of the "science" that you, as an atheist, base your life on.  Rare is the atheist who will accept the reality of his perceived predictament - that life is meaningless and that morality is meaningless.

... Which all leads back to your criticism of Yahweh, whom you claim is immoral for "murdering" babies - a claim that seems very weak to me, according to your atheism. 
For example, you have failed to provide a reason why Yahweh shouldn't kill babies if he wants to - other than you find such behaviour distasteful.  I don't like drinking coffee without sugar and milk, therefore people who drink coffee without sugar and milk are immoral - in effect, this is the size of your argument. 

Furthermore, your "science" says that a human life is no more important than the life of, say, a bug.   If Yahweh killed a bug you wouldn't call that immoral, but when Yahweh kills a human, you call it immoral.   In other words, by rating a human above a bug, you are contradicting the very "science" that you base your life on.  You can't have it both ways.  Based on your "science", how can you prove that a human being is more important than a bug?

This is on top of another perplexing claim of yours: You admit that human life is meaningless, but your life is meaningful.  How can something be meaningless and meaningful all at the same time?  Perhaps I'm simply not intelligent enough to understand such a concept.




« Last Edit: March 22, 2017, 07:04:02 AM by Dredge »
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Dredge

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Re: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?
« Reply #108 on: March 22, 2017, 06:47:06 AM »
Just carry on with your vision of things if that satisfies your expectations of life and, hopefully, makes you a worthy member of society. If you were half as empathetic, half as charitable, half as considerate as some atheists that I have met you would be a good person.
How do you know what is "good"?   Adolf Hitler no doubt thought is was  "good" to murder 6 million Jews.  In the name of equality, the Khmer Rouge thought it "good" to exterminate a quarter of the population of Cambodia.   

How do you define "a worthy member of society"? 


And why should anyone be a "worthy member of society" or a "good person"?  Why not be a gangster, instead?
Follow the evidence wherever it leads.

Dredge

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Re: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?
« Reply #109 on: March 22, 2017, 06:53:46 AM »
Only someone utterly lacking in empathy could be having a hard time with this.
Empathy.  Why is it necessary to have empathy?  A shark lacks empathy but survives just fine.  If a shark doesn't need empathy, why should a human?

We would all kill each other that's why.
So what?  What makes you think humans need to exist?

Why are you questioning their need to exist? Do you think they all need to be wiped out?
I don't think humans need to be wiped out.  But quite a few environmentalist fanatics think a global cull would be very beneficial for the planet (Satan is always coming up with novel ways to exterminate humans, as it is in his interest).

According to your "science", no life needs to exist.
Follow the evidence wherever it leads.

Dave

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Re: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?
« Reply #110 on: March 22, 2017, 07:50:10 AM »
[Quote still regestering as empty]

Sad to say it but the final scales of pseudo-science are falling and exposing the true core: the basic, unadorned believer.

No amount of re-iteration will get through that barrier.
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.

Ecurb Noselrub

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Re: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?
« Reply #111 on: March 22, 2017, 11:28:43 AM »
Satan is always coming up with novel ways to exterminate humans, as it is in his interest.

Yeah, like that time that Satan destroyed almost all of humanity with a great flood.  Oh, wait .....

Recusant

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Re: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?
« Reply #112 on: March 22, 2017, 01:27:26 PM »
It comes down to the same twaddle that's been peddled by casuistic god-botherers for millennia. The only "real" morality is that which some group of pious self-important mountebanks says comes from a supposedly supernatural external source that they believe to exist in a realm that's safely out of reach to anybody alive. 
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
— H. L. Mencken


Davin

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Re: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?
« Reply #113 on: March 22, 2017, 02:40:32 PM »
These are my problems with morality that is supposedly god sourced.

One, morality is supposed to be a person determining the consequences of those actions and making a decision to try to seek out the least harmful action. But with god belief, the followers tend to remove themselves from the decision process to follow what they claim to be moral actions decided by their god. So at best, the god is the moral agent and the followers are acting amorally. More likely however,  the followers have given up acting morally to the second problem.

The second problem is that no one has a direct line to their god. While many claim to, it's never been reliably demonstrated. So what even the followers of supposedly "objective morality" are left with, are subjective interpretations of that morality. And that's at best. Since they cannot demonstrate that the messages/feelings/thoughts actually come from their god, all we can be sure about, is that some people claimed or are claiming to speak for their god about what is moral or not.

There is no path for us humans that leads to objective morality no matter how you look at it.

Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.

Dave

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Re: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?
« Reply #114 on: March 22, 2017, 05:00:39 PM »
Quote
... a realm that's safely out of reach to anybody alive.

Question is, Recusant, is it also out of reach of the dead, or the dead out of reach of it?
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.

Arturo

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Re: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?
« Reply #115 on: March 22, 2017, 10:28:27 PM »
Huh, every time i try to reply here, something goes wrong. I was pretty sure I replied to dredge

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Arturo

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Re: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?
« Reply #116 on: March 22, 2017, 10:30:20 PM »
So what?  What makes you think humans need to exist?

Why are you questioning their need to exist? Do you think they all need to be wiped out?
I don't think humans need to be wiped out.  But quite a few environmentalist fanatics think a global cull would be very beneficial for the planet (Satan is always coming up with novel ways to exterminate humans, as it is in his interest).

According to your "science", no life needs to exist.

You already had an answer to your own question. Why even ask it? It's clear you're just trying to prove your own prejudice.

Whether or not life needs to exist doesn't matter. It already does and we want to survive. We do survive. I don't see anything wrong with that. I'm also not against uthenasia if someone is suffering a great deal. They have there own personal struggles that I'm not going to project my preferences on to. I will try to help them if I can but I can't always be there. So if someone slips through the cracks, at least let them have peace.

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quite a few environmentalist fanatics think a global cull would be very beneficial for the planet
Statistics? Don't use an anecdote (if you even know what that is) because we already know none of us are the center of the universe.

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(Satan is always coming up with novel ways to exterminate humans, as it is in his interest)

You mean how God wiped out who knows how many people in the Bible as we've already described? I mean once we brought that up, you started questioning why we think it's bad for babies to be slaughtered. And why humans need to exist. And then you blamed it on science but really it's all coming from you and your Bible lol

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Dredge

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Re: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?
« Reply #117 on: March 23, 2017, 06:15:11 AM »
... the fact remains that we humans, churched or not, DO feel a sense of right and wrong.  We DO feel empathy, along with a thousand other human feelings.
How interesting that you trump the fact of human emotions over certain other "facts" that are central to your belief system. 
For example, you believe evolution to be an "estabished scientific fact".   According to this "fact" it is also a "fact" that a human being is just one meaningless machine amongst millions of other kinds of meaningless machines produced by evolution - therefore a human being has no more intrinsic worth than any any machine ... a flea, for example.  How can you then claim that is it immoral for Yahweh to murder a human being, when it is not immoral to murder a flea? 
Follow the evidence wherever it leads.

Dredge

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Re: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?
« Reply #118 on: March 23, 2017, 06:19:59 AM »
Well, that would demonstrate just how much out of touch with reality, with life as it is lived, the average philosoohy teacher is!
Your opinion of what is reality is is no doubt very different to my opinon of what reality is.  What I have been discussing is reality from the point of view of your atheism.  So which of my comments means I'm out of touch with atheist reality"?
Follow the evidence wherever it leads.

Dredge

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Re: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?
« Reply #119 on: March 23, 2017, 06:25:01 AM »
I want to live because I enjoy life.  I observe the same attitudes in others.  I also find that people are more likely to treat me well if I treat them well.  I want people to treat me well so that I can continue to live as long as possible.  That is a basis for "morality" right there: treat others well so they will treat you well so you can enjoy life longer.
I'm sorry, but what you have described is not morality.  It is simply a process by which you have learnt to behave in a certain manner in order to get a certain reward - "If I do such-and-such,  I will get such-and-such in return."  This is really no different to a dog learning that it will get a snack if it rolls over when its owner says "roll over" ... or learning that if it doesn't crap in the owner's house, it won't get punished.

Morality is more like ... not stealing when you know you can get away with it ... or not committing adultery when know you can get away with it - because you believe stealing or adultery is wrong.
Follow the evidence wherever it leads.