Author Topic: Re: Today in History  (Read 20939 times)

Icarus

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Re: Today in History
« Reply #90 on: December 10, 2017, 01:10:52 AM »
^ ;D

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Re: Today in History
« Reply #91 on: December 15, 2017, 02:18:25 PM »
I like listening to British people talk about the Battle of Hastings because you can see the inner conflict between "Oh no, I hate the French" and, "the Normans are an important part of our history"!

The part of me that likes the French is saying,"Yessssss England, the last great conquest of your land was by the French People,... DEAL WITH IT. 8)


This is American Humour ;D


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Dave

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Re: Today in History
« Reply #92 on: December 15, 2017, 02:52:51 PM »
I like listening to British people talk about the Battle of Hastings because you can see the inner conflict between "Oh no, I hate the French" and, "the Normans are an important part of our history"!

The part of me that likes the French is saying,"Yessssss England, the last great conquest of your land was by the French People,... DEAL WITH IT. 8)


This is American Humour ;D


Happy Friday.

The Norman French (you should distinguish this, they are not French French but ex-bloody-Scandinavians who pinched a bit of Frogland and spoke an appalling gutteral variety of the Froggy language) are, of course, an important part of British history. But only because the bastards beat us!

We got our own back at Agincourt! Even if that was against the French French. They deserved it.
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Ecurb Noselrub

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Re: Today in History
« Reply #93 on: December 15, 2017, 07:35:39 PM »
English is a combination of Norman French and Germanic Anglo Saxon (plus some other stuff), so today being "English" means part Norman French.  Dave's right, they were old Vikings, not Franks, so they don't really count.  But "English" is a mixture of a lot of things, so the Norman French didn't really defeat the "English", they defeated the people who lived in Southern England at the time.     

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Re: Today in History
« Reply #94 on: December 15, 2017, 07:38:44 PM »
English is a combination of Norman French and Germanic Anglo Saxon (plus some other stuff), so today being "English" means part Norman French.  Dave's right, they were old Vikings, not Franks, so they don't really count.  But "English" is a mixture of a lot of things, so the Norman French didn't really defeat the "English", they defeated the people who lived in Southern England at the time.   
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Dave

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Re: Today in History
« Reply #95 on: December 15, 2017, 08:31:19 PM »
English is a combination of Norman French and Germanic Anglo Saxon (plus some other stuff), so today being "English" means part Norman French.  Dave's right, they were old Vikings, not Franks, so they don't really count.  But "English" is a mixture of a lot of things, so the Norman French didn't really defeat the "English", they defeated the people who lived in Southern England at the time.   

Um, IIRC, the "Normans" were "Norsemen",  Norwegians. The Vikings hailed from Denmark, close cousins, still Germanic like the Anglo-Saxons. Can't remember the proportions but English has more A-S words than NF IIRC. But if you count the letters there are more in French! Monosyllabic and basic words tend to be A-S in origin, leg=limb, hand=hond, bottom=botm, head=head, foot=fūt (ū as in scoot), cow=cū, ship=scip ("c" after "s"= "h"), bishop=biscop, wife=wyf, woman (as a wife, esp. the king's) = cwen (queen) . . .  Multisyllabic words like pleasure, entrance, beauty, dispose, entreat, endorse and longer are, of course, French - they always did like fluttering around with their language.

So we have two words for many things, and more words for some: skin, hide, fur,... Makes for interesting poetry and very thick thesauri! And a language you can mangle in its syntax and grammar and still make sense with.

Sorry, tends to be a favourite subject, but not done much on it for years.
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Re: Today in History
« Reply #96 on: December 16, 2017, 04:42:14 AM »
Vikings weren't of a specific nationality. There were Vikings from pretty much any Scandinavian country you care to mention. "Norsemen" as a term in that era (ca. 8th to 11th centuries) was more or less equivalent to "Scandinavian" now.
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Dave

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Re: Today in History
« Reply #97 on: December 16, 2017, 06:15:56 AM »
Vikings weren't of a specific nationality. There were Vikings from pretty much any Scandinavian country you care to mention. "Norsemen" as a term in that era (ca. 8th to 11th centuries) was more or less equivalent to "Scandinavian" now.

In most of my readings the Anglo-Saxon accounts tend to tag the Danes as "Vikings" and the Norwegians as "Norsemen". But, true, it is not really a national tag. But it was the Danes who gave the Saxons more problems, in terms of settling, the Danelaw, and raiding, than any other national group.

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Icarus

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Re: Today in History
« Reply #98 on: December 16, 2017, 06:53:35 AM »
I think that it was the clever Danes who first figured out the advantages and profits of the Hanseatic league.  They now make some cool furniture of teak wood that does not grow anywhere near Denmark.. OK they are devious bastards....and they charge a bundle for their damned teak furniture.  ( Confession:my house is full of "Danish modern furniture" because I like the simplicity and utility of it)

Icarus

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Re: Today in History
« Reply #99 on: January 27, 2018, 02:24:16 AM »
The 24th of January 1942 was the Dunkirk event. That was the epitome of commitment for the Brit small boat people who did what they believed that they had to do. That was heroic in the finest sense of the word.  Here is a salute to the people who participated in that event.

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Re: Today in History
« Reply #100 on: January 27, 2018, 08:36:01 AM »
The 24th of January 1942 was the Dunkirk event. That was the epitome of commitment for the Brit small boat people who did what they believed that they had to do. That was heroic in the finest sense of the word.  Here is a salute to the people who participated in that event.

Yes, truly heroic to set out to an active war zone in small pleasure boats they were deserving of every honour.
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Re: Today in History
« Reply #101 on: January 27, 2018, 11:40:08 AM »
The 24th of January 1942 was the Dunkirk event. That was the epitome of commitment for the Brit small boat people who did what they believed that they had to do. That was heroic in the finest sense of the word.  Here is a salute to the people who participated in that event.

It was a brilliant plan, especially because 1000 small boats are way harder to hit than a couple of massive carriers.
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Dave

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Re: Today in History
« Reply #102 on: January 27, 2018, 03:00:27 PM »
The 24th of January 1942 was the Dunkirk event. That was the epitome of commitment for the Brit small boat people who did what they believed that they had to do. That was heroic in the finest sense of the word.  Here is a salute to the people who participated in that event.

It was a brilliant plan, especially because 1000 small boats are way harder to hit than a couple of massive carriers.

But one shell from a fighter cannon will sink a small boat. But Adolf gave them a chance.

Quote
After Nazi Germany invaded Poland in September 1939, France and the British Empire declared war on Germany and imposed an economic blockade. The British Expeditionary Force (BEF) was sent to help defend France. After the Phoney War of October 1939 to April 1940, Germany invaded Belgium, the Netherlands, and France on 10 May 1940. Three of their panzer corps attacked through the Ardennes and drove northwest to the English Channel. By 21 May, German forces had trapped the BEF, the remains of the Belgian forces, and three French field armies along the northern coast of France. Commander of the BEF, General Viscount Gort, immediately saw evacuation across the Channel as the best course of action, and began planning a withdrawal to Dunkirk, the closest good port.

On 22 May, a halt order was issued by the German High Command, with Adolf Hitler's approval. Preventing the evacuation was left to the Luftwaffe (German Air Force), until this order was rescinded on 26 May. This gave trapped Allied forces time to construct defensive works and pull back large numbers of troops to fight the Battle of Dunkirk. From 28 to 31 May, in the Siege of Lille, the remaining 40,000 men of the once-formidable French First Army fought a delaying action against seven German divisions, including three armoured divisions.

On the first day only 7,669 Allied soldiers were evacuated, but by the end of the eighth day, 338,226 of them had been rescued by a hastily assembled fleet of over 800 boats. Many troops were able to embark from the harbour's protective mole onto 39 British Royal Navy destroyers, 4 Royal Canadian Navy destroyers,[3] and a variety of civilian merchant ships, while others had to wade out from the beaches, waiting for hours in shoulder-deep water. Some were ferried to the larger ships by what came to be known as the little ships of Dunkirk, a flotilla of hundreds of merchant marine boats, fishing boats, pleasure craft, yachts, and lifeboats called into service from Britain. The BEF lost 68,000 soldiers during the French campaign and had to abandon nearly all of its tanks, vehicles, and equipment. In his speech to the House of Commons on 4 June, Churchill reminded the country that "we must be very careful not to assign to this deliverance the attributes of a victory. Wars are not won by evacuations."[9]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunkirk_evacuation
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Re: Today in History
« Reply #103 on: January 31, 2018, 07:18:49 PM »
The 24th of January 1942 was the Dunkirk event. That was the epitome of commitment for the Brit small boat people who did what they believed that they had to do. That was heroic in the finest sense of the word.  Here is a salute to the people who participated in that event.

It was a brilliant plan, especially because 1000 small boats are way harder to hit than a couple of massive carriers.

But one shell from a fighter cannon will sink a small boat. But Adolf gave them a chance.

Quote
After Nazi Germany invaded Poland in September 1939, France and the British Empire declared war on Germany and imposed an economic blockade. The British Expeditionary Force (BEF) was sent to help defend France. After the Phoney War of October 1939 to April 1940, Germany invaded Belgium, the Netherlands, and France on 10 May 1940. Three of their panzer corps attacked through the Ardennes and drove northwest to the English Channel. By 21 May, German forces had trapped the BEF, the remains of the Belgian forces, and three French field armies along the northern coast of France. Commander of the BEF, General Viscount Gort, immediately saw evacuation across the Channel as the best course of action, and began planning a withdrawal to Dunkirk, the closest good port.

On 22 May, a halt order was issued by the German High Command, with Adolf Hitler's approval. Preventing the evacuation was left to the Luftwaffe (German Air Force), until this order was rescinded on 26 May. This gave trapped Allied forces time to construct defensive works and pull back large numbers of troops to fight the Battle of Dunkirk. From 28 to 31 May, in the Siege of Lille, the remaining 40,000 men of the once-formidable French First Army fought a delaying action against seven German divisions, including three armoured divisions.

On the first day only 7,669 Allied soldiers were evacuated, but by the end of the eighth day, 338,226 of them had been rescued by a hastily assembled fleet of over 800 boats. Many troops were able to embark from the harbour's protective mole onto 39 British Royal Navy destroyers, 4 Royal Canadian Navy destroyers,[3] and a variety of civilian merchant ships, while others had to wade out from the beaches, waiting for hours in shoulder-deep water. Some were ferried to the larger ships by what came to be known as the little ships of Dunkirk, a flotilla of hundreds of merchant marine boats, fishing boats, pleasure craft, yachts, and lifeboats called into service from Britain. The BEF lost 68,000 soldiers during the French campaign and had to abandon nearly all of its tanks, vehicles, and equipment. In his speech to the House of Commons on 4 June, Churchill reminded the country that "we must be very careful not to assign to this deliverance the attributes of a victory. Wars are not won by evacuations."[9]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunkirk_evacuation

That's interesting, but it doesn't make sense. Why on earth would the Nazis temporarily ceasefire when they could have inflicted so much damage then? It's not like they didn't have the opportunity to decimate the British army... 
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Dave

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Re: Today in History
« Reply #104 on: January 31, 2018, 07:35:02 PM »
^

Dunno, Hitler had the last word and he was no strategist - we are told that he held out hopes that Anglo-Saxon Britain would eventually come to his side. Perhaps he hoped that our (temporary) defeat in France would weaken our resolve and massacring our troops wholescale on the beaches would make us even more anti? We were an important launchpoint, about the only one, for any attempt to recover the continent, Ireland would not work since it was neutral though, rumours have it, a bit over to Germany's side of the fight - it was a good entry for spies.

Thus Hitler must have been very torn, with Britain out of things due to extreme losses at Dunkirk America would probably have come in sooner.
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