Author Topic: Is this forum an appropriate place for a topic on how Christians have abused me?  (Read 4973 times)

TheWalkingContradiction

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TWC

You are perfectly at liberty to attack the ideals, tenants and dogma's of any Institutionalised Superstition (aka Religion). An idea has no feelings to hurt and cannot take offence. If people take offence because an abstract idea is being attacked that is their problem and not yours.

Chris

Very sound advice.  I guess I am just scared because many Christians I know feel saying anything negative about the religion is tantamount to attacking them.  (And let me be honest...  I have attacked out of frustration.)

I am not as much of a scaredy cat as I am coming off.  It will all make sense when I figure out what I am going to say and post it.

En_Route

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I once had a manager that advised me it is better to ask forgiveness that it is to ask permission.



Love that quote.  But as a teacher who must be PC in his very, very diverse classroom, it is hard for me to apply that.  Will try.

I don,to think that adage works in all contexts. There are taboos that you cannot break and Higher Education is a politically correct minefield. Certainly in the  UK, where the pretence has to be sustained that the vast expansion of intake without corresponding increase in resources has not impacted adversely on the quality of HE, there is a pervasive intellectual dishonesty  which you expose at your utmost peril.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2012, 01:16:08 PM by En_Route »
Some ideas are so stupid only an intellectual could believe them (Orwell).

OldGit

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Right.  Not to mention that not every kid is degree material.

En_Route

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Right.  Not to mention that not every kid is degree material.

That has increased drop- out rates, but more insidiously has led to an almost universal dilution of standards.
Allied to this, the league tables which are produced factor in the classes of degree which students achieve. This is a variable which is largely within the control of the Universities themselves. So despite the fall in entry requirements, the number of first class and upper second degrees has increased exponentially- exactly the reverse of what one might expect if standards were being held constant.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2012, 10:13:30 AM by En_Route »
Some ideas are so stupid only an intellectual could believe them (Orwell).

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Speaking as a drop-out, not everybody has all that faith in school systems. Can actually be more of a hinderance than anything.
Give no mercy to your fear.



En_Route

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Speaking as a drop-out, not everybody has all that faith in school systems. Can actually be more of a hinderance than anything.

People drop out for a number of reasons and it is by no means a reflection on their capabilities. I was directing my temarks at a system which is based on the premise that maximising the number of people in HE is  in itself a good thing and which therefore does not screen out large numbers of people who are  completely unsuited to it and are virtually bound to fail. What the point, purpose and value of HE is, or should be, is a matter of debate.
Some ideas are so stupid only an intellectual could believe them (Orwell).

xSilverPhinx

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I was directing my temarks at a system which is based on the premise that maximising the number of people in HE is  in itself a good thing and which therefore does not screen out large numbers of people who are  completely unsuited to it and are virtually bound to fail. What the point, purpose and value of HE is, or should be, is a matter of debate.

I agree with that. We have the same problem around these parts. Private colleges and universities are generally considered to be worse in terms of quality, but they absorb the loads of people who feel that they have to have a degree to get a job. Entrance exams are a joke and they're clearly just looking to farm a lot of students for their money. It's partly the governments fault, they make it seem necessary, as you can't have some kinds of jobs without some degree, even if a a totally unrelated (go figure ::) ) or crappy one. What's bound to happen is over qualified people having to struggle for a vacancy as a cashier at McDonald's whereas probably the smarter ones will learn a trade that nobody really wants and have virtually no competition whatsoever.

Universities are very big business. If I had money I would probably open one. ;D
Give no mercy to your fear.



TheWalkingContradiction

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Speaking as a drop-out, not everybody has all that faith in school systems. Can actually be more of a hinderance than anything.

People drop out for a number of reasons and it is by no means a reflection on their capabilities. I was directing my temarks at a system which is based on the premise that maximising the number of people in HE is  in itself a good thing and which therefore does not screen out large numbers of people who are  completely unsuited to it and are virtually bound to fail. What the point, purpose and value of HE is, or should be, is a matter of debate.


I was directing my temarks at a system which is based on the premise that maximising the number of people in HE is  in itself a good thing and which therefore does not screen out large numbers of people who are  completely unsuited to it and are virtually bound to fail. What the point, purpose and value of HE is, or should be, is a matter of debate.

I agree with that. We have the same problem around these parts. Private colleges and universities are generally considered to be worse in terms of quality, but they absorb the loads of people who feel that they have to have a degree to get a job. Entrance exams are a joke and they're clearly just looking to farm a lot of students for their money. It's partly the governments fault, they make it seem necessary, as you can't have some kinds of jobs without some degree, even if a a totally unrelated (go figure ::) ) or crappy one. What's bound to happen is over qualified people having to struggle for a vacancy as a cashier at McDonald's whereas probably the smarter ones will learn a trade that nobody really wants and have virtually no competition whatsoever.

Universities are very big business. If I had money I would probably open one. ;D

Although I teach in a university, I agree with both En_Route and xSilverPhinx.  There is so much wrong with higher education, and it really depresses me.  I often have to find a private spot away from snooping ears to give sound advice to students I care about.

I do not look down on someone who drops out or decides academic life is not for him or her.  I also know that my graduate degree does not make me a superior person, for there are many people who have never gone to university but are smarter or more successful (or both) than I am.  I am an academic because I love teaching and learning and because a university is the place I feel the most comfortable.  No more, no less.

Here is the short, classic 1975 article "School vs. Education" by Russell Baker.  It makes my skin crawl because it is everything I, an idealist at heart, don't want education to be but know it really is.  http://learning.hccs.edu/faculty/irene.keliher/engl1301/handouts-worksheets-given-in-class/school-vs.-education-article-for-mon.s-hwhttp://
« Last Edit: July 25, 2012, 11:48:32 PM by TheWalkingContradiction »

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TWC

You are perfectly at liberty to attack the ideals, tenants and dogma's of any Institutionalised Superstition (aka Religion). An idea has no feelings to hurt and cannot take offence. If people take offence because an abstract idea is being attacked that is their problem and not yours.

Chris

Very sound advice.  I guess I am just scared because many Christians I know feel saying anything negative about the religion is tantamount to attacking them.  (And let me be honest...  I have attacked out of frustration.)

I am not as much of a scaredy cat as I am coming off.  It will all make sense when I figure out what I am going to say and post it.

Respect the persons, riddicule the dogma?
No one has the right to not have their favourite beliefs critizised, not even christies...
Stay off the personal attacks and you should be fine.


"If scientist means 'not the dumbest motherfucker in the room,' I guess I'm a scientist, then."
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TheWalkingContradiction

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Again, thank you to all who have advised me there.  Much appreciated.

I have not forgotten about the promised bio of my religious past and how its negative effects continue today.  I have actually started it several times, but I keep getting angry or depressed when I work on it.  Also, it's not easy knowing I will be revealing such a personal thing to people I barely know as Internet names, let alone people who are not atheists.  It will take a while, but I hope to have it written and posted before long.  Sorry for the ridiculously long delay.

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That's okay, you don't owe us anything. Only share what you feel comfortable sharing.  :)
"We’ve thought of life by analogy with a journey, with pilgrimage which had a serious purpose at the end, and the THING was to get to that end; success, or whatever it is, or maybe heaven after you’re dead. But, we missed the point the whole way along; It was a musical thing and you were supposed to sing, or dance, while the music was being played.

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Again, thank you to all who have advised me there.  Much appreciated.

I have not forgotten about the promised bio of my religious past and how its negative effects continue today.  I have actually started it several times, but I keep getting angry or depressed when I work on it.  Also, it's not easy knowing I will be revealing such a personal thing to people I barely know as Internet names, let alone people who are not atheists.  It will take a while, but I hope to have it written and posted before long.  Sorry for the ridiculously long delay.
Make sure you have plenty of time on your hands because possibly people might have lots of questions for you, IDK how it is going to go down. But sometimes it can be overwhelming especially if you have limited time.
If you want to put faces to the internet names then check out the Icons thread.

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I, for one, am eager to hear your story. Even as a Christian, I can't imagine that I'll be offended. There are good Christians and bad Christians, just as there are good atheists and bad atheists, and we all have different experiences, and we all affect others in different ways. Who here can claim that they have never done anything bad or wrong, or that they have never hurt anyone else?  Certainly not I.

Everyone's story has value.

En_Route

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Again, thank you to all who have advised me there.  Much appreciated.

I have not forgotten about the promised bio of my religious past and how its negative effects continue today.  I have actually started it several times, but I keep getting angry or depressed when I work on it.  Also, it's not easy knowing I will be revealing such a personal thing to people I barely know as Internet names, let alone people who are not atheists.  It will take a while, but I hope to have it written and posted before long.  Sorry for the ridiculously long delay.

Take your time. I think you can be assured of a sympathetic and supportive hearing.
Some ideas are so stupid only an intellectual could believe them (Orwell).

TheWalkingContradiction

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Once again, thank you to everyone.

I have finally done it: http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=10364.0