Author Topic: Is this forum an appropriate place for a topic on how Christians have abused me?  (Read 4979 times)

En_Route

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(While I do not know Ecurb Noselrub apart from this thread and my having seen that she also likes Mrs. Slocombe, she would seem to be one.)  

While I'm sure he won't take your misperception the wrong the way, I'm as certain as I can be in an online community that Bruce Burleson is a man.

That was before the operation.
Some ideas are so stupid only an intellectual could believe them (Orwell).

En_Route

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Thank you, everyone, for these responses.  

I now have to think very carefully about how to approach this.  I want to spend time on it, but right now I am in the middle of directing students on projects and also recording sound files for them (the bulk of my on line time right now plus a huge chunk of my time at work).  I need to force myself onto my bike before I sleep, but that, I believe, will be the last of my energy.  As much as I want to start tonight, it is just not possible,  

I also have to make my story long enough to say what I want it to say but short enough so that people will read it.  (You may think some of my posts have been long, but I am sure anyone who knows me in real life would question why I kept them so short...  for me, that is.  Again, I want people to read them, and I realize there is a limit to how much I can cram into a post...)

The "Life as an Atheist" section it is, then.      

I am not concerned about atheists who say things I may not want to hear; I am, after all, looking for insight.  I am also not concerned about civil Christians; if they have also been through abusive Christianity they may have good things to say.  (While I do not know Ecurb Noselrub apart from this thread and my having seen that she also likes Mrs. Slocombe, she would seem to be one.)  

My concern is that it would be five years ago all over again, and Christians with agendas on an atheist board would be picking me apart once again while failing to hear my pain, failing to understand that my being gay is not up for debate, failing to comprehend that I have heard about Jesus all my life and have had quite enough, or failing to see that I write, either to myself or to others, to make sense of the world.  As I tell my students, when I start to write I have only the vaguest idea what I will say; when I finish I have learned something about myself.  When others comment I learn even more.  But when others mock me, I shut down and no more writing and learning is possible.  

Now the part I don't tell students.  When I am mocked I get very aggressive.  I have a long history of being mocked by extended family, schoolmates and, especially, Christians.  Where the church should have been my refuge, it was just another place to be told again and again how worthless I was and how undeserving of Jesus' love I was.  Don't even get me started on what happened when I came out of the closet.  

How do I post without attacking Christianity?  I won't attack the people on this board, nor will I attack my parents, sister and friends who are still trapped in that religion--but if I am to speak honestly, to discuss my experience as an atheist, I must take Christianity to task.  I refer to its us vs. them mentality, its lip service to love while fostering hate, its twisting of dynamic children into broken adults...  And how all this affected me.  I believe that Christians do what they do because they are Christian and are following a book I have found hateful since I was a child.

To be silent is to give Christianity a Get Out of Jail Free Card, and I for one don't subscribe to the tiresome Christian argument about "True Christians" vs. "Pharisees" and how only people who were not "True Christians" hurt me.  I have heard this same argument from Fundamentalists, Evangelicals, Liberals, Moderates...  Anyone they don't agree with is not a "True Christian" since one size fits all.  Everyone from Fred Phelps to John Shelby Spong could conceivably use this argument, so what does it really mean?

I just don't see "True Christians"; rather, I see some people who are good people and are also Christian--just as I see some people who are good people and also atheists, Hindus, or Wiccans.  Or subscribers to John Locke's philosophy.  Or practitioners of Cognitive Behavior Therapy.  Or martial artists.
 
Now you see why I am asking questions before going ahead and writing.  This is the way I analyze what was done to me, and I need to know if it is too offensive for this board.


Why not just say what you think?  Your stance strikes me as less censorious towards Christianity than that of some members here who certainly suffer no opprobrium for stating their opinions.
Some ideas are so stupid only an intellectual could believe them (Orwell).

Ecurb Noselrub

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(While I do not know Ecurb Noselrub apart from this thread and my having seen that she also likes Mrs. Slocombe, she would seem to be one.)  

While I'm sure he won't take your misperception the wrong the way, I'm as certain as I can be in an online community that Bruce Burleson is a man.

Yes, while my masculinity is certainly in decline, I still maintain a Y chromosome and the requisite mechanical parts. Furthermore, I would make a God-awful ugly woman. If WalCon was mislead by my avatar, that's my wife and oldest granddaughter.

Ecurb Noselrub

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(While I do not know Ecurb Noselrub apart from this thread and my having seen that she also likes Mrs. Slocombe, she would seem to be one.)  

While I'm sure he won't take your misperception the wrong the way, I'm as certain as I can be in an online community that Bruce Burleson is a man.

That was before the operation.

At this point, I don't think that any operation will help me.

Ecurb Noselrub

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Back to the subject of the OP, Christians, like all humans, are certainly capable of doing nasty things.  Various Christians have enslaved blacks, burned non-believers and "witches" at the stake, killed other Christians who had slightly different doctrines, stolen from their own churches, made unjust war on other peoples, committed adultery against their spouses, and generally failed to love as Christ commanded.  So our history is pretty much fair game for anyone.

En_Route

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(While I do not know Ecurb Noselrub apart from this thread and my having seen that she also likes Mrs. Slocombe, she would seem to be one.)  

While I'm sure he won't take your misperception the wrong the way, I'm as certain as I can be in an online community that Bruce Burleson is a man.

That was before the operation.

At this point, I don't think that any operation will help me.

Ditto. And they have tried their best.
Some ideas are so stupid only an intellectual could believe them (Orwell).

En_Route

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Back to the subject of the OP, Christians, like all humans, are certainly capable of doing nasty things.  Various Christians have enslaved blacks, burned non-believers and "witches" at the stake, killed other Christians who had slightly different doctrines, stolen from their own churches, made unjust war on other peoples, committed adultery against their spouses, and generally failed to love as Christ commanded.  So our history is pretty much fair game for anyone.

All true. Which doesn't mean that there aren't some variants of Christianity whose effects are likely to add to the sum of human happiness, slippery concept as that may be. There are certainly some elements in the alleged teachings of Christ which are conducive to human beings' better treatment of each other, most of which he was not  the first to  expound. To borrow an aperçu delivered by someone else  speaking of another work, the Bible is both original and insightful; unfortunately, what is insightful is not generally original and what is original is not generally  insightful.
Some ideas are so stupid only an intellectual could believe them (Orwell).

Ecurb Noselrub

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All true. Which doesn't mean that there aren't some variants of Christianity whose effects are likely to add to the sum of human happiness, slippery concept as that may be. There are certainly some elements in the alleged teachings of Christ which are conducive to human beings' better treatment of each other, most of which he was not  the first to  expound. To borrow an aperçu delivered by someone else  speaking of another work, the Bible is both original and insightful; unfortunately, what is insightful is not generally original and what is original is not generally  insightful.

The actual "new commandment" of Christ was "to love one another as I have loved you."  I believe that the last part, which presents Jesus as the example of love, is both original and insightful.  Others before him spoke of love, but I don't think (correct me if I'm wrong) that anyone set himself up as the example of love. That, combined with the dual ideas of the messiah being willing to lay down his life for others as an act of love and then conquering death, constitutes the principal contribution of Christianity, IMHO. Loving as Christ loved is a pretty high ideal that has inspired many to rise above their baser instincts.

Stevil

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I'm not sure about the whole "willing to lay down his life for others" bit.
If Jesus did exist, he died merely because he was human. Just like the rest of us he had no choice.
He was going to die at some stage.

He did not turn himself in, Judas supposedly did that without his consent.
He did not asked to be killed on behalf of humanity. He did not die in order to save anyone.
He was taken into custody and put to death as I assume many others suffered that same fate under the Roman Empire.

If he did come back from the dead, then again his death was no sacrifice.

I don't understand the joy Christians get from the story of the death of their human-god, If you accept his death as payment for your sins, I find this appalling. As a responsible adult I stand by my actions.

Ecurb Noselrub

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Well, I didn't expect anyone to agree. Enough derail, this is about WalCon telling us about his experiences. He needs to be the next one to speak.

Stevil

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I assume he is going to start a new thread in the "Life as an Atheist" section, when he is ready.

TheWalkingContradiction

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Well, I didn't expect anyone to agree. Enough derail, this is about WalCon telling us about his experiences. He needs to be the next one to speak.

I just want to say how much I respect that.  I had actually wanted to respond to your post on Jesus, but I thought better of it since you have been kind to me and I wanted to return the favor.  Of course, you too should say what you believe--but we should both keep it civil.

Yes, I did think I was talking to the woman in the avatar (the older one).  Your screen name struck me as Harry Potterish, and for some reason it sounds like a Hogwarts witch's name.  (This is a compliment, as I adore Harry.  I cannot enjoy ...Narnia since it was forced on me with a strict Christian interpretation when I was a kid (a gift from my counsin the minister).  While C.S. Lewis is not someone I care for too much, I doubt that even he would have wanted his stories to be theology.  Allusions to Christianity (especially with Aslan), yes, but not theology.   I don't care for Tolkien either since I associate him with C.S. Lewis and other unpleasant things.  But Harry Potter allows me to live in that world common fantasy world, and as I often tell my students I would give J.K. Rowling a big kiss for making children who otherwise hated books --want!!!-- to read if I ever met her. 

A number of my students are also Harry Potter fans, although, sadly, in South Korea the series is considered "girls' books."  Some guys have to read it in secret.  Fortunately, that stigma is not attached to the series in other countries (to my knowledge). 

TheWalkingContradiction

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I assume he is going to start a new thread in the "Life as an Atheist" section, when he is ready.

The key indeed being "when he is ready."

And also...  When he does not have a million students doing presentations...  In real life I also do voice overs, and so I lend my voice to my ESL students by recording sound files of their presentations so they can hear native pronunciation and intonation.  This is, of course, gratis, as I don't charge students--but one time one of them brought me business by having me read record the English translations of her friend's (an established Japanese poet's) work.

If I could, I would start now...  But since I have to get up to work in five and a half hours, it is time to turn the lights off...

TheWalkingContradiction

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Why not just say what you think?  Your stance strikes me as less censorious towards Christianity than that of some members here who certainly suffer no opprobrium for stating their opinions.

Thank you for the support!   :)  I know I can be divise and get ugly, and that is something I always struggle against.  It isn't who I want to be here.   That is why I need to be careful.

TheWalkingContradiction

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I once had a manager that advised me it is better to ask forgiveness that it is to ask permission.



Love that quote.  But as a teacher who must be PC in his very, very diverse classroom, it is hard for me to apply that.  Will try.