Author Topic: A map of evolution teaching  (Read 924 times)

donkeyhoty

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A map of evolution teaching
« on: June 14, 2007, 09:32:47 AM »
Both links are to the map,  for the first one scroll down to map 97. http://strangemaps.wordpress.com/page/2/

this is the direct link with all the comments on it.
http://strangemaps.wordpress.com/2007/0 ... /#comments
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 AM by donkeyhoty »
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Squid

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« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2007, 10:55:48 PM »
Some of the comments are spine-chilling in their obvious spewing of the same tired old propagandic tripe we've always seen.  One (it appears to be) kid on there said:

Quote
here is a junkyard acroos the street, I don’t see it turning into an airplane.

Explain: Love, Guilt, Happiness, Sadness, Passion, Self-Control to me. How did evolution create those things?

Comment by Chad Stroh — April 3, 2007 @


Very sad.

As I've said before, I think that evolutionary theory amongst many other scientific ideas and theories are beyond the ability of much of the populace to comprehend let along form a solid understanding of the processes involved.
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 AM by Squid »

jcm

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« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2007, 02:24:59 AM »
Quote from: "Squid"
Very sad.

As I've said before, I think that evolutionary theory amongst many other scientific ideas and theories are beyond the ability of much of the populace to comprehend let along form a solid understanding of the processes involved.


It is very sad to see you say that. I hope that is not true. Maybe they are all just lazy.

Somethimes I think it is just easier to believe that there is a plan and we are all designed for a reason. I guess I am just really tortured with idea that nothing happens after you die. I suppose for me and others it is better to believe that something does happen, even if it is a lie. It would probably hurt less in the end.
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 AM by jcm »
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SteveS

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« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2007, 03:52:31 PM »
Hahaha!!!!

My state (Illinois) came out an "embarrassment" for teaching evolution...figures!

I will say, though, when I was in high school biology and we covered evolution our teacher stopped the lesson one day and said "there is a video tape that I am now required to show you".  He said nothing else, but played the tape.  It was a creationist tape, with some really humorous stuff.  The one I remember was, "if you leave a pile of bricks in the sun they don't build themselves into a house".   :lol:  

Anyway, some of us irreverent types were openly guffawing during the tape.  After it was over, people tried some discussion but the teacher would not take questions and just went back into the lesson as if it never happened.  I think that was his form of protest for being required to play that piece of junk.

So, if Illinois still requires tapes like this to be shown, I agree --- we're an embarrassment  :oops:
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 AM by SteveS »

Squid

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« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2007, 06:34:51 PM »
Quote from: "jcm"
Quote from: "Squid"
Very sad.

As I've said before, I think that evolutionary theory amongst many other scientific ideas and theories are beyond the ability of much of the populace to comprehend let along form a solid understanding of the processes involved.

It is very sad to see you say that. I hope that is not true. Maybe they are all just lazy.

Somethimes I think it is just easier to believe that there is a plan and we are all designed for a reason. I guess I am just really tortured with idea that nothing happens after you die. I suppose for me and others it is better to believe that something does happen, even if it is a lie. It would probably hurt less in the end.


It's not just evolution either.  Much of the population fails to comprehend some basic science like what a laser is.  In relation to evolution - especially  human evolution - it is made even worse by ideologies which advocate self-imposed ignorance and decry an inquiry into such an area.
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 AM by Squid »

McQ

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« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2007, 09:18:13 PM »
Quote from: "Squid"

It's not just evolution either.  Much of the population fails to comprehend some basic science like what a laser is.  In relation to evolution - especially  human evolution - it is made even worse by ideologies which advocate self-imposed ignorance and decry an inquiry into such an area.


Oh hell, even my dogs know what a LASER is. Every time I walk into my office they follow me in and stare at the shelf where I keep the LASER Pointer. I can run those fools around the yard until the batteries die!
 :lol:
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 AM by McQ »
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JustInterested

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« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2007, 02:16:12 AM »
Quote
As I've said before, I think that evolutionary theory amongst many other scientific ideas and theories are beyond the ability of much of the populace to comprehend let along form a solid understanding of the processes involved.


That sucks that only a select few have to ability to understand the very things that explain our existence.  Why couldn't I be one of the lucky ones?
I wanna know the answers!  Let's start with a few questions.

Are we still evolving?  if no, why not?
What is the origin of evolution?
At what point during evolution did reproduction begin?
Does evolution disprove creation?
Why do people who believe in evolution love it so much?
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 AM by JustInterested »

SteveS

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« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2007, 03:16:14 AM »
JustInterested, I'll take a stab at answering your questions:

Quote from: "JustInterested"
Are we still evolving? if no, why not?
I believe we are still evolving --- why wouldn't we be?  I agree that our medical knowledge is reducing the affect of natural selection, but surely genetic drift and sexual selection are still forces that are working upon us.

Quote from: "JustInterested"
What is the origin of evolution?
I think it would be correct to say that evolution started with the first molecule that could reproduce itself with occasional modifications - descent with modification is evolution, no?

Quote from: "JustInterested"
At what point during evolution did reproduction begin?
Again, I think it's correct to say that reproduction is a requirement of evolution.  Without reproduction, there could be no evolution.  So, reproduction is what started evolution, not the other way around.

Quote from: "JustInterested"
Does evolution disprove creation?
Depends on what you mean --- it surely disproves that some god (or gods) created all life on earth in it's present form.  In other words, some god did not create man, man evolved.

But creation in general?  No.  Nothing about evolution disproves (for example) the deist's idea that god created the universe and then left it to run.  If god created natural laws, then evolution in no way disproves creation, as it is the end result (and function of) those very natural laws.  Please note this is not to say that I think any gods created anything  :wink:  

Quote from: "JustInterested"
Why do people who believe in evolution love it so much?

I don't know if I'd say I "love" evolution (hahaha - this tickles my funny bone), but I'd say that I "like" it because it has given me knowledge about myself, where I come from, what I am, what life on earth is, how it came to be the way it is, etc.  I have a genuine and earnest desire for knowledge.  And evolution has given us a big fat helping of it.

My 2 cents.
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 AM by SteveS »

JustInterested

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« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2007, 03:40:13 AM »
Thanks for your 2 cents.  I need it.  I'm poor.

I like your last statement.  It makes me think how we really arent that different.  I believe deep down we all want the same things, love, knowledge, an understanding of who we are, where we came from and where we're going.  You put your faith in evolution and I put my faith in Jesus Christ in search for the answers. You feel satisfied and I feel satisfied.  This whole thing is very interesting.

Although i do think evolution could be considered a god.

Your responses are greatly appreciated
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 AM by JustInterested »

Squid

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« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2007, 04:00:56 AM »
Quote from: "JustInterested"
That sucks that only a select few have to ability to understand the very things that explain our existence.  Why couldn't I be one of the lucky ones?
I wanna know the answers!  Let's start with a few questions.

People can understand it, it just takes work and a lot of learning to get a decent grasp past a superficial, elementary understanding.  And many people aren't that interested in investing that much to learn about things which they already don't find stimulating but have powerful opinions on.

Quote
Are we still evolving?  if no, why not?

We sure are.  Several studies over the last few years have shown this empirically and unequivocally.

Quote
What is the origin of evolution?

As in when did it begin?  It started when what we term "life" first appeared.

Quote
At what point during evolution did reproduction begin?

It actually is a requirement for life to reproduce.

Quote
Does evolution disprove creation?

No, it never was intended to disprove anything only to better explain the natural processes of populations of organisms changing over time.  Many people often confuse evolution with the origin of life - evolution does not explain (nor was it ever intended to explain) how life first arose.

The biggest conflict point(s) for creation/evolution are the origin of humans and speciation.  A literal interpretation of the bible is in conflict with what evolution shows as our origins.  However, many maintain a belief in god and have no problem with evolution - some are even ardent defenders of it, case in point Kenneth Miller.

Quote
Why do people who believe in evolution love it so much?


I'm not sure what you mean by "love it so much".  I love my parents, I can love my car, I can love my myself and so forth.  I don't think those who ardently defend it necessarily have some type of strong emotional bond to it or anything.  I'm sure some might.  However, based upon the scientific evidence which even now continues to come to light - it has been shown time and time again to be a substantiated theory which best explains the processes of nature within its explanatory framework.

An example would be a recent study which showed that ~10% of our genome has undergone heavy selection in the last 15,000 - 100,000 years especially in areas such as skin pigmentation - which lends more empirical support to what anthropologists have been saying for decades.  Other research presented in March at the American Association of Physical Anthropologists meeting in Philadelphia showed that human evolution is actually accelerating which supports computer models done by Jeffrey McKee back in 2000.

To argue with some who are staunch anti-evolution, it would be as frustrating as an astronomer arguing against someone who adamantly holds to a geocentric  solar system.  And you'd be surprised to know how many people still think this.
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 AM by Squid »

pjkeeley

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« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2007, 04:56:44 AM »
Quote
Although i do think evolution could be considered a god.

How so? I don't think there's any definition of 'god' which describes evolution.

If there is, maybe you should start calling gravity a god.
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 AM by pjkeeley »

Squid

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« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2007, 05:43:56 PM »
I'm in favor of calling photosynthesis a god.
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 AM by Squid »

SteveS

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« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2007, 03:29:26 AM »
Since we're naming gods, I nominate fermentation  :wink:

Quote from: "JustInterested"
You put your faith in evolution and I put my faith in Jesus Christ in search for the answers.

Ah, but see, this is where we are different.  I don't need to have "faith" in evolution because evolution can be rationally demonstrated to be worthy of acceptance based on the evidence currently available (scientific process and all that).  So, no faith required.  Faith and reason are conflicting ideas --- if an idea is reasonable, and stands to critical rational analysis, then "faith" can only be used for rejecting it  :wink:
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 AM by SteveS »

rlrose328

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« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2007, 05:21:50 PM »
Quote from: "JustInterested"
You put your faith in evolution and I put my faith in Jesus Christ in search for the answers.


Personally, I don't put my faith in evolution.  While the Christian god demands faith in him, his existence and his history as documented by the bible, evolution doesn't require faith or belief. It merely IS.  It's scientifically proven, like gravity or the existence of oxygen.  We don't have to believe in it for it to be true and factual.

You can have your own truth, but you cannot have your own facts.  Facts just ARE and do not require faith.

Evolution is a fact, not a belief system or a god.
« Last Edit: January 01, 1970, 01:00:00 AM by rlrose328 »
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