Author Topic: The Northam mess  (Read 996 times)

jumbojak

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Re: The Northam mess
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2019, 12:45:29 AM »
:lol:

Ok, a self-proclaimed Culcha Warrioh ought not ask, but what is said to be going on in that photo? Because I see two guys going "Yay, I'm a winner!" and one guy being all "meh" about his... Silver? Bronze? Silver, I think.

The raised fist is typically a symbol of the left but in this case was associated with the Black Power movement. That Australian fellow fared much, much worse than they did.

I've never understood what the fuss over Peter Norman was about.  If it was about his wearing an OPHR badge, well, screw them.  If it was about his "just standing there" during the Black Power salute (which I've heard some people say), what on Earth else was he supposed to do?

It was the badge. Depending on who you ask, wearing that badge cost him his career as an athlete. He was a loathsome individual in many ways but he took a very brave stand that day and it seems to have cost him dearly.
 

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Anne D.

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Re: The Northam mess
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2019, 04:20:03 AM »
Re: The Kavanaugh hearing comparison: Sorry, I wasn't very clear. When I compare the situations, I'm not comparing the act that the men are apologizing for, I'm comparing how the way they acted in response to being called out about their past (Northam's behavior at the second press conference, Kavanaugh's self-pitying responses and lashing out at the hearing). It's their current judgment and the way their acting now that disqualifies them for their positions, not necessarily what they did in the past.

Northam does not seem to know what he's apologizing for. That he had to take a full day to recognize that he supposedly wasn't in the pic of the KKK member and the man in blackface indicates he thought he'd been the one in the picture--that's pretty bad. But bad as it is, to me and a lot of Americans it would be forgivable if he just showed that he truly recognized how horrible it was to dress up for funsies as a KKK member, or wear blackface and pose with the KKK guy. The 80s was so close in time to the era when black people were being tortured and terrorized by the KKK. That Northam was that unempathetic and oblivious as a twenty-something is a Big Effing Deal. But again--I could let it lie if he'd just been human enough to give a real apology. A man with any conscience would have ignored his spin doctors and let his original apology stand. The guy needs to step down.

Anne D.

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Re: The Northam mess
« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2019, 04:22:18 AM »
Ugh. "the way *they're* acting now"

Asmodean

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Re: The Northam mess
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2019, 11:27:48 AM »
Northam does not seem to know what he's apologizing for.
This. Did nothing wrong at the time and in the context of your "wrongdoing?" Don't bloody well apologize then! But politicians...
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Bad Penny II

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Re: The Northam mess
« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2019, 12:47:03 PM »
Back in the day it was jolly good fun to blacken your face,
make mockery of the darker skinned
ha ha ha guffaw guffaw
Now is now and you can't be a pretend Jackson because of then.
Why would you want to go to a party as a black person?
Why wouldn't you, are you a fkn racist or something?
Certainty disturbs me


Asmodean

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Re: The Northam mess
« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2019, 12:59:43 PM »
Yep. More-or-less.

Line four: I think it's more a case of "It's wrong to 'blackface' now, so you are a disgrace, sir, for having done it twenty years ago."

Is it, though? Wrong, I mean? Is it really? What if it's Halloween, and you are engaging in some rightful race-appropriation? What if you mine coal forty years ago? What if you live in Zimbabwe? For that matter, what if you live in Bumfuck, Idaho, population: seven white dudes, a dog and an arsenal of guns?
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Bad Penny II

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Re: The Northam mess
« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2019, 02:02:10 PM »
Yep. More-or-less.

Line four: I think it's more a case of "It's wrong to 'blackface' now, so you are a disgrace, sir, for having done it twenty years ago."

Is it, though? Wrong, I mean? Is it really? What if it's Halloween, and you are engaging in some rightful race-appropriation? What if you mine coal forty years ago? What if you live in Zimbabwe? For that matter, what if you live in Bumfuck, Idaho, population: seven white dudes, a dog and an arsenal of guns?

Ye well they are in their American circumstance and they have their guilt to deal with.

Line five and six of it is the gist of it for me
The latest dude is in the news for past abominations
Hearing the news I ask myself why would you dress up as black person?
There is a "are you a little bit racist?" thing going on, I don't subscribe to it, I am probably a smidge, I don't seek to be 100% pure. I will continue to question my motives.
I don't dress up as anyone anyway, I did drag once.
People do dress up as people they admire.
So is my self question "why would you dress up as black person" is it an expression of my innate racism, a plea from my soul for the universe to be a better place, or simply asking how could this guy be so fkn stupid.  It's complicated being me, how's it working for the rest of you, being you?
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Asmodean

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Re: The Northam mess
« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2019, 02:41:34 PM »
Do you hold prejudice against black people because of their skin color? Then you may harbor a racist thought or two. Whether or not you do, it's your opinion. You have a right to it, whatever it may be, and whatever it may be, the blackface example may be a poor indicator either way. For instance,

why would I want to go to a party dressed up as a black person? For broadly the same reasons as I might go to a party as a Ferengi, a furrie or a condom. Entertainment value.

why would I not want to go to a party dressed up as a black person? For broadly the same reasons as I would not want to go to a party as a microwave oven, a beech tree or Jeff Sessions. That shit is boring.

Now, replace "black person" with whatever the hell you like, and my answers will remain the same, aaand without prejudice against a race or an ethnicity, there is no racism.


...I'm almost proud of just how un-woke and sensible I am ;D Pats on the back for all the Asmos. (Actually, most of my un-wokeness stems from me giving not a wee-tiny shit about those things I'm supposed to be all woke about. Race, "microaggressions..." Jeff Sessions...)

« Last Edit: February 08, 2019, 02:56:03 PM by Asmodean »
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Bad Penny II

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Re: The Northam mess
« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2019, 04:19:10 PM »
Do you hold prejudice against black people because of their skin color?

Probably.  I also have a belief in social justice, recognise historical injustices, think fair play is fair, don't want to be an asshole. I don't think the way to deal with a bias is denying you have one.

Do I think think there were/are ugly, cruel, nasty things done using blackface?
YES...and I'm sure I could cast a few cultural/racial biases their way.

Do I think blackface can never be used again and whoever does is forever tainted?
Never is a long time. I'm becoming irked by the narrow focused relentless zeal of the always offended.  Why can't they do normal porn like normal people?
Certainty disturbs me


Anne D.

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Re: The Northam mess
« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2019, 11:45:26 PM »
Do you see my comment as "the relentless zeal of the always offended," or is "the always offended" just a general description of some other population you're railing against?

Bad Penny II

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Re: The Northam mess
« Reply #25 on: February 09, 2019, 03:26:40 PM »
Do you see my comment as "the relentless zeal of the always offended,"

If I looked at it I might, I'm trying to learn not to.

or is "the always offended" just a general description of some other population you're railing against?
It's not a general thing yet, it's just a thing I recently came up with as a coping mechanism.

I think sport is good, it's healthy, you should do it.
I abhor sport broadcasters, they are overly loud.
I don't get into the rah rah my team stuff.

I think blackface is bad, it's unhealthy, you shouldn't do it.
I...
I...
Certainty disturbs me


Tom62

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Re: The Northam mess
« Reply #26 on: February 10, 2019, 07:12:34 AM »
I heard that an US professor considers Marry Poppins iconic chimney sweep scene to be racist, because of black facing. Where does this craziness ends? When I was young, I played cowboys and Indians with my friends, should I now also have to apologize for my "racist" behaviour 40 years ago?

Any way, I think that [real] black facing isn't racist, but more a matter of bad taste.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2019, 08:29:17 AM by Tom62 »
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Re: The Northam mess
« Reply #27 on: February 10, 2019, 09:55:58 AM »
...
Any way, I think that [real] black facing isn't racist, but more a matter of bad taste.

I don't think one should or could make a broad generalisation that black facing is or is not racist because the racist element is the intent of the individual doing the 'black facing' not that act itself. IMO.
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Tom62

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Re: The Northam mess
« Reply #28 on: February 10, 2019, 03:28:13 PM »
...
Any way, I think that [real] black facing isn't racist, but more a matter of bad taste.

I don't think one should or could make a broad generalisation that black facing is or is not racist because the racist element is the intent of the individual doing the 'black facing' not that act itself. IMO.

True, but we cannot look into the minds of people. We either guess their intentions or make assumptions about them.   
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Sandra Craft

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Re: The Northam mess
« Reply #29 on: February 10, 2019, 10:05:11 PM »
...
Any way, I think that [real] black facing isn't racist, but more a matter of bad taste.

I don't think one should or could make a broad generalisation that black facing is or is not racist because the racist element is the intent of the individual doing the 'black facing' not that act itself. IMO.

True, but we cannot look into the minds of people. We either guess their intentions or make assumptions about them.

It is an assumption that black face is always racist by intent, whether the intent is conscious or subconscious.  It's considered part of the racism we're all indoctrinated with as part of a racist society and culture.  Performing in black face is just a statement of how little effort one's put into overcoming this ingrained racism.

Which is why I object to Northam's performance in black face being treated as if it happened yesterday, and not 35 yrs ago, and why I consider it short-sighted that his actions since then to protect civil rights are not being taken into account.
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