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Court

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« Reply #30 on: July 31, 2006, 11:05:16 AM »
I agree with everything Laetus just said.
I don't think it's taking a gamble to evaluate your thoughts and understand why you're having them. Metacognition, for me, has always been the best therapy. Suppressing thoughts because I think they're "bad" has always been disastrous.
There are such things as innocent fantasies, that do not lead to any actions. But if you don't meditate on your seemingly random thoughts, including the "immoral" ones, how could you possibly know the difference?

And, I think the reason mostly females have been responding is because, for whatever reason, be it socialization or genetics, men tend to get jealous more often and more violently than women. So, they would get more upset by their wife/girlfriend having thoughts about Brad Pitt...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Court »
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I should have been a pair of ragged claws
Scuttling across the floors of silent seas
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try having a little faith = stop using your brain for a while -- ziffel[/size]

iplaw

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« Reply #31 on: July 31, 2006, 11:09:14 AM »
Quote
I don't know about anyone else, but I can figure out when the person I'm with is having problems even if he doesn't even hint at them knowingly. If this is true for everyone, it is far better to acknowledge the problems and discuss them openly than for both partners to suffer because one is burying an issue to spare the other's feelings. Even if the issue is more personal than related to the relationship, it would still be better to get it out there in the open and have support in working through those feelings.

Brilliant.  I agree.  What has created and sustained this argument was people's dogmatic assertion that thoughts are innocent and innocuous in and of themselves and mental self-control is too prohibitive for intelligent humans.  I never supported or attributed any value to supressing thoughts, rather scripture states we should deal with them so that the pattern stops and deflects the thought process away so it never culminates in the action, but the thought should never be ignored.

Nowhere did I tell people to supress thoughts.  That is a preconceived notion they bring to the table regarding how they think christians should react based upon a basic misunderstanding of the christian philosophy.  Nothing in scripture talks of supression of thougths but the control or submission of them to different ideals because thoughts are the catalyst.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2006, 11:19:55 AM by iplaw »

iplaw

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« Reply #32 on: July 31, 2006, 11:14:37 AM »
Quote
...men tend to get jealous more often...

Court.  Come on...men tend to be more jealous.  Women get jealous of one another's shoes for pete's sake. :wink:

Big Mac.  Go bother someone else.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by iplaw »

Court

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« Reply #33 on: July 31, 2006, 11:31:08 AM »
Quote from: "iplaw"
Quote
...men tend to get jealous more often...
Court.  Come on...men tend to be more jealous.  Women get jealous of one another's shoes for pete's sake. :wink:


Okay, that was a bit stereotypical of me. And if you know women who actually get jealous of one another's shoes, they are silly and materialistic. I don't befriend women like that.
Well, perhaps it is simply irrational folks. I don't get jealous very often, and when I do, I realize it's my own insecurity and deal with it. In my experience, men have always been more controlling, violent, and jealous (and irrational). But I'll admit, my experiences are limited.

Perhaps the women on this forum are just more comfortable discussing their views on relationships.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2006, 11:37:50 AM by Court »
[size=92]
I should have been a pair of ragged claws
Scuttling across the floors of silent seas
[/size]
[size=92]
try having a little faith = stop using your brain for a while -- ziffel[/size]

Court

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« Reply #34 on: July 31, 2006, 11:37:21 AM »
Quote from: "iplaw"
Quote
I don't know about anyone else, but I can figure out when the person I'm with is having problems even if he doesn't even hint at them knowingly. If this is true for everyone, it is far better to acknowledge the problems and discuss them openly than for both partners to suffer because one is burying an issue to spare the other's feelings. Even if the issue is more personal than related to the relationship, it would still be better to get it out there in the open and have support in working through those feelings.
Brilliant.  I agree.  What has created and sustained this argument was people's dogmatic assertion that thoughts are innocent and innocuous in and of themselves and mental self-control is too prohibitive for intelligent humans.


I don't think that mental self-control is inherently bad, but I also don't think that the thought is as bad as the action (as the bible verse about thinking about adultery suggests).
Perhaps you could give a specific example of an immoral thought that normal people would have that is dangerous, besides cheating.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Court »
[size=92]
I should have been a pair of ragged claws
Scuttling across the floors of silent seas
[/size]
[size=92]
try having a little faith = stop using your brain for a while -- ziffel[/size]

iplaw

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« Reply #35 on: July 31, 2006, 11:38:49 AM »
Quote
my experiences are limited

Hope those experiences didn't involve a father figure.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by iplaw »

Big Mac

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« Reply #36 on: July 31, 2006, 11:44:23 AM »
Quote from: "iplaw"
Quote
...men tend to get jealous more often...
Court.  Come on...men tend to be more jealous.  Women get jealous of one another's shoes for pete's sake. :wink:

Big Mac.  Go bother someone else.


What's the matter, you don't have a legitimate rebuttal? Some lawyer you are, Tex.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Big Mac »
Quote from: "PoopShoot"
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Whitney

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« Reply #37 on: July 31, 2006, 11:50:13 AM »
Quote from: "iplaw"
Quote
my experiences are limited
Hope those experiences didn't involve a father figure.


That wasn't necessary.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Whitney »

iplaw

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« Reply #38 on: July 31, 2006, 11:51:48 AM »
First.  I don't remember dangerous as being part of the criteria plenty of things destroy character without being dangerous.  How about:

I bet no one will know it if I cheat on my tax return;  I bet I can skip out on work because the boss will be gone for the day.....So on and So on...

Can you name me an immoral action that wasn't prompted by a thought?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by iplaw »

iplaw

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« Reply #39 on: July 31, 2006, 11:53:27 AM »
It wasn't meant to be anything but what I said, sincere.  I hope that she wasn't harmed by someone she should have been able to trust.  People need to stop reading between the lines when there is nothing to read.  Court and I have a good relationship and I have never been anything but kind to her as she is to me.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2006, 11:54:39 AM by iplaw »

Court

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« Reply #40 on: July 31, 2006, 11:54:26 AM »
Okay, then. I just read it as sarcastic. Sorry about that.

EDIT: Well, to be really honest, some of that experience has come from my father. I don't judge other men because of him, though, because he was a special kind of asshole that you only encounter every once in a while.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2006, 12:06:18 PM by Court »
[size=92]
I should have been a pair of ragged claws
Scuttling across the floors of silent seas
[/size]
[size=92]
try having a little faith = stop using your brain for a while -- ziffel[/size]

Big Mac

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« Reply #41 on: July 31, 2006, 11:55:05 AM »
Quote from: "laetusatheos"
Quote from: "iplaw"
Quote
my experiences are limited
Hope those experiences didn't involve a father figure.

That wasn't necessary.


So I'm not the only one who found his comment a little creepy?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by Big Mac »
Quote from: "PoopShoot"
And what if pigs shit candy?

Court

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« Reply #42 on: July 31, 2006, 11:56:33 AM »
Quote from: "iplaw"
First.  I don't remember dangerous as being part of the criteria plenty of things destroy character without being dangerous.  How about:

I bet no one will know it if I cheat on my tax return;  I bet I can skip out on work because the boss will be gone for the day.....So on and So on...

Can you name me an immoral action that wasn't prompted by a thought?


Yeah, but I don't think that thinking about cheating on my tax return is bad, because I have the willpower to stop myself. Ditto on the skipping work. I say I want to call in sick almost every morning, or that I want to skip class. I don't do either, despite the repetitive thought. I've been having those thoughts for years. Do you really think I'll eventually act on them? Or do you think the initial thought should be avoided?
« Last Edit: July 31, 2006, 12:07:47 PM by Court »
[size=92]
I should have been a pair of ragged claws
Scuttling across the floors of silent seas
[/size]
[size=92]
try having a little faith = stop using your brain for a while -- ziffel[/size]

iplaw

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« Reply #43 on: July 31, 2006, 11:57:30 AM »
Quote
Okay, then. I just read it as sarcastic.

Unfortunately the limitations of text only conversation sometimes.  If I'm being sarcastic I lay it on pretty thick, I don't take hip shots.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by iplaw »

iplaw

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« Reply #44 on: July 31, 2006, 12:00:25 PM »
Some people don't consider hating others because of the color of their skin as immoral.  Whether we see it as wrong or right subjectively is dangerous ground to stand on in the right or wrong game.  Immorality doesn't always equal dangerous, in fact it most often doesn't.

Quote
So I'm not the only one who found his comment a little creepy?


Big Mac. Hey pot, kettle calling, it's for you.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 05:00:00 PM by iplaw »