Happy Atheist Forum

Community => Life As An Atheist => Topic started by: Amicale on May 02, 2012, 05:59:31 AM

Title: Angry Atheists
Post by: Amicale on May 02, 2012, 05:59:31 AM
"We need to get rid of all religion, it's evil and backwards."
"I'd never date/be good friends with a religious person, they're all morons."
"If my partner became religious, I'd leave them."
"Someone tried to tell me about Jesus and I got so pissed off. It ruined my day."
"ALL theists are (insert generalization here). I can't stand them!"

We all know the type. Maybe some of us are the type. So, why are some people like this? What causes the anger? Is the anger constructive and helpful, or does it just burn bridges and create stereotypes?

I think this conversation is relevant to life as an atheist, because we either blow a gasket ourselves and say things like this, or we see someone else do so. From my own general observations, it seems like people who feel very angry about religion generally feel that way not because religion exists, but because in the past, they've been horribly offended or hurt by someone who was religious, and they're still feeling that pain and carrying that grudge. Or maybe they live in a culture where religion surrounds them, and they feel oppressed. So as a defense mechanism, they lash out.

I'd be curious to hear everyone's thoughts on this. I'd also be curious to hear any ideas people here have about how to turn the anger around, and how to approach people who are religious with balance or tolerance.
Title: Re: Angry Atheists
Post by: Tank on May 02, 2012, 07:56:04 AM
I don't think you can stop this sort of thing any more than you could see football supporters not support their football club. This is tribalism at its worst. Humans are social and group survival/inclusion is very important to us. This is social ape group behaviour.

If one wanted to try to stop this sort of thing then the best way would probably be to enlarge the perceived social group. Thus atheist and theist become sub-sets of a larger group 'people', which in fact we are. As long as sub-sets exist their will be conflict.
Title: Re: Angry Atheists
Post by: fester30 on May 02, 2012, 08:18:35 AM
I think there are people who are going to be angry, complaining, bitter SOB's regardless of their religious beliefs or philosophies.  I don't think it's that they are necessarily angry with Christianity or Christians, but that they are angry, and Christianity and Christians seem a convenient target since they have different beliefs.  If you're an angry person looking for a target, are you going to look to be angry at people just like you?  Of course not, then you would have to hate yourself.
Title: Re: Angry Atheists
Post by: The Magic Pudding on May 02, 2012, 09:24:38 AM
"We need to get rid of all religion, it's evil and backwards."
 

Impractical, I would like its influence lessened because I don't think it serves my ideals for humanity.

"I'd never date/be good friends with a religious person, they're all morons."

Moderately religious people wouldn't be a problem, people hardly talk about their religious status anyway.  Whacky believers may be OK if they're benevolent.  Dating isn't really an issue as my wife says I'm not allowed to.  

I think you should be careful with words like "moron," it can seem a bit simplistic and their is an implied claim that you are cleverer.


"If my partner became religious, I'd leave them."

That would depend on their change in behaviour, shared children and property.  It can often be more advantageous to arrange an accident.


"Someone tried to tell me about Jesus and I got so pissed off. It ruined my day."

That's kind of weak and wimpy.

"ALL theists are (insert generalization here). I can't stand them!"

I don't have a generalisation or a generalization.

If one of your major gripes with religion is it tells people how they should be and then you start telling people how they should think from your atheist perspective, it can seem a bit hypocritical.  I've come across some atheist ayatollahs, they aren't much fun.
Title: Re: Angry Atheists
Post by: OldGit on May 02, 2012, 10:35:58 AM
Amicale, your example statements cover a wide area.

The partner thing - well, that could cause problems, especially if one partner changes views during the relationship.  But that all depends on the personalities involved and the type of religion.  A mild Anglican and a bigoted JW are different animals.

Quote
"We need to get rid of all religion, it's evil and backwards."

As Pudding said, there are plenty of reasons for trying to minimise religious influence.  Apart from the wars and killings, both the UK and the US suffer from religious interference in abortion, contraception, mercy-killing, stem-cell research ....

But of course it's not true that they're all hateful morons.  Some are, of course.
Title: Re: Angry Atheists
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 02, 2012, 12:10:01 PM
Making generalised statements is usually the lazy way out, all such people are either morons, ignorant or hypocritical ;D


I don't think you can stop this sort of thing any more than you could see football supporters not support their football club. This is tribalism at its worst. Humans are social and group survival/inclusion is very important to us. This is social ape group behaviour.

If one wanted to try to stop this sort of thing then the best way would probably be to enlarge the perceived social group. Thus atheist and theist become sub-sets of a larger group 'people', which in fact we are. As long as sub-sets exist their will be conflict.

I tend to agree with this ^ However, I don't see how two different ideologies can become more than two sub-groups, especially with the zeitgeist that's the growing disillusion with religion. Natural tribal conflict could be channeled into something. I saw a documentary once in which an Italian city would solve this by hosting competitive horse racing games between the neighbourhoods, each with their own sense of identity and loyalty. People found a healthy outlet for their feelings.

I don't know how that could be done for those more angry and vocal few atheists, though. Or even if it would backfire and cause an even wider gap. ???


 
Title: Re: Angry Atheists
Post by: Angler28 on May 02, 2012, 04:50:09 PM
I think a lot of it is some atheists have just run out of patience. For an atheist that is approached by a believer and asked if they believe, for example, to the theist, it could be the first time they've ever talked to this person. For the atheist, it may be the tenth time that week they've been asked this. Keep this cycle going for long enough and eventually someone will snap and lash out, especially here in the bible belt.

It makes me think back to when I was in retail and anytime I would help a customer find an item, I would hear at least 2 to 3 times a day, "Well, if that'd been a snake, it'd've bit me!"

I got so tired of hearing this, and everytime someone would say it, it was like they had made up the expression themselves. I eventually got to the point where I would sometimes say, "Well, maybe next time."   I attribute some of the angry atheists reasoning to this.

On the other hand, there are those that are just looking for an arguement and will use any means to get one going in an attempt to feel superior over someone else, or to try and prove they are smarter. Unfortunately, these people tend to play for all teams.
Title: Re: Angry Atheists
Post by: Asmodean on May 02, 2012, 06:07:30 PM
That thread with that video about angry atheists. Where did The Asmo put it? Can't find it.  >:(
Title: Re: Angry Atheists
Post by: Sweetdeath on May 02, 2012, 08:42:37 PM
I'm pretty angry, and it definitely comes down to disgust, sick and tired of being treated like a worthless object.

I'm a gay woman. So yeah, religious people and i REALLY don't get along.

:P
Title: Re: Angry Atheists
Post by: AnimatedDirt on May 02, 2012, 08:52:55 PM
I'm pretty angry, and it definitely comes down to disgust, sick and tired of being treated like a worthless object.
You're definitely not worthless.

Quote from: Sweetdeath
I'm a gay woman. So yeah, religious people and i REALLY don't get along.

:P
I realize this may be your experience...and for what it's worth, I apologize for my closed-minded brethren.
Title: Re: Angry Atheists
Post by: DeterminedJuliet on May 02, 2012, 08:55:17 PM
There are plenty of religious people who do get along with women/gay people, though. I used to be one of them. I can understand being frustrated with the system sometimes. I think frustration, or even anger, is sometimes warranted, but I'd be wary of acting aggressively towards any person that I don't know simply because they're religious (or because they belong to any other "group"). I'd consider myself a bit of a feminist, but I'm not going to write off all men because of that. You know? What would it say about my ideology if I came online and started attacking random guys, or men in general, because, by virtue of their existence, I considered them "part of the problem"? Some feminists have done that, and that's what gives feminism a bad rap. It's not a fair approach and only serves to alienate.

I love ya SD, but you do say things sometimes that sound almost as close-minded as the stuff that bothers you.
Title: Re: Angry Atheists
Post by: Amicale on May 02, 2012, 08:55:23 PM
Thanks for the responses so far, everyone. Some good points have been made. :)

Angler, your point about people just running out of patience is a good one, and probably very true. When I see someone snap and get all angry, all I'm seeing is that one moment, rather than the thousand that led up to it. Had I been in that person's shoes, it's possible I would have been just as burnt out. Good food for thought.

Pudding...  :D @ arranging an accident. I can always count on you for a laugh.

Tank, I like your point about this being tribal behaviour. It's true. It's an us versus them mentality, rather than seeing all of us as being members of the same group.

Sweetdeath, I can certainly understand why you'd feel disgusted, sick and tired of being treated like a worthless object, and I'm sorry that's been your experience. *hug* That being said, I'm also a gay woman, and I get along fine with most religious people. So it must not be the 'being gay' that's the issue, but maybe more the different experiences gay people can have in different societies, yes? I know that too often, I take my own society for granted -- there is certainly some pressure from the religious/conservative folks to behave/be a certain way, but in a society where gay relationships are considered pretty normal by most people and where people have been getting happily married for several years, I don't see a level of vitriol here that you must have seen, growing up where you did.
Title: Re: Angry Atheists
Post by: Crow on May 02, 2012, 08:56:23 PM
I'm pretty angry, and it definitely comes down to disgust, sick and tired of being treated like a worthless object.

I'm a gay woman. So yeah, religious people and i REALLY don't get along.

:P

Like AD said you ain't worthless and anybody that treats you as such are not worth the time of day.
Title: Re: Angry Atheists
Post by: Crow on May 02, 2012, 09:07:05 PM
"ALL theists are (insert generalization here). I can't stand them!"

I have started to become a bit like this as of late, minus the "I can't stand them!" part. Previously I was always like religious people in general aren't mental but some are. However I started watching debates and talks that are entirely made up of those of a monotheistic belief and quite widely represented of all the different thoughts and ideas within those religions. I have yet to watch one where I haven't thought "they are mental!" and that's just from the moderates, never mind those that are a bit more literal.
Title: Re: Angry Atheists
Post by: Stevil on May 02, 2012, 11:01:28 PM
"We need to get rid of all religion, it's evil and backwards."
I am for tolerance, so I would definitely like to get rid of the intolerance that religion breeds in society.
But, I couldn't care less about what people believe in. If a person believes in fairies, or UFOs or ghosts or monsters or gods or string theory or multiverse...
It doesn't really bother me.

"I'd never date/be good friends with a religious person, they're all morons."
I'm not sure what beliefs have to do with friendship, maybe this person can't respect religious people? Friendships require respect. "Moron" is the wrong term.

Belief isn't related to intelligence, just a epistemology standpoint. Me, I am very analytical, I need evidence, facts and then create conclusions (beliefs) of knowledge based on that. Other people go with intuition or trust in what others tell them. But reconciling existence and life is difficult at the best of times, no-one has all the answers.

I've been reading a book, "Quantum Leap", it discusses the people behind the major breakthroughs in Quantum Physics, Bohr, Plank, Schrodinger, Heisenberg, Einstein, etc. It goes into their history, whom they were, where they came from, who they worked with, their major publishings, the scientific reaction to these publishings. I found it quite interesting. There is a lot of belief in science. These scientists come up with a model that accurately fits the  observed measurements. Their models often have a visualisation aspect e.g. Bohr's circular orbits of electrons around the nucleus of an atom. Scientists then believe in that visualisation. When someone else comes up with a new theory that also fits the observed measurements but is contradictory to the believed visualisation, it gets a lot of initial distain, and disbelief. It takes years for scientists to change their thinking (their beliefs) to come to accept the new theories.
Einstein for the most part was good at accepting new theories, if they meet the observed measurements then he wouldn't simply throw them away due to his current beliefs.

"If my partner became religious, I'd leave them."
Conditional love, are we all so fickle? or is this an emotional bluff, a gut reaction in the anger/denial stage of discovering new contradictory information, a feeling of betrayal, of being lied to, of being deceived?

"Someone tried to tell me about Jesus and I got so pissed off. It ruined my day."
Your emotional state is based on other people's believes or expressions of their beliefs?

"ALL theists are (insert generalization here). I can't stand them!"
All theists are believers in god/s, they don't need empirical evidence to support their god beliefs...
Title: Re: Angry Atheists
Post by: Sweetdeath on May 02, 2012, 11:52:56 PM
I'm pretty angry, and it definitely comes down to disgust, sick and tired of being treated like a worthless object.
You're definitely not worthless.

Quote from: Sweetdeath
I'm a gay woman. So yeah, religious people and i REALLY don't get along.

:P
I realize this may be your experience...and for what it's worth, I apologize for my closed-minded brethren.

Thanks, AD.
I consider you a more loving and open minded person/ follower of christ. :)
Title: Re: Angry Atheists
Post by: Sweetdeath on May 03, 2012, 12:07:26 AM
I am definitely going to read Quantum Leap. Sounds really interesting.
Title: Re: Angry Atheists
Post by: Harmonie on May 03, 2012, 10:15:45 AM
I am probably what you would call an 'Angry Atheist', but it's not from anything irrational. I don't think that being religious has anything to do with intelligence and do not like fellow atheists making any statements even implying that it does. I'm fine being friends with Christians, because as has been said, not all Christians are outward with their faith, and a good number of them are also good people who do not hide their irrational hatred for groups of people behind what the book says. Individuals have different layers to them. You can't judge them because of this belief, they can still be just as good of a person as you. And they can be - and usually are - perfectly normal people outside of their belief.

What makes me an 'Angry Atheist' is that I am anti-religion. Of course, more anti-Abrahamic religion than others. I see religion's influence on everything, and I can't help but be this way. I have always felt very strongly against discrimination and hatred towards group of people who are different. And no matter what way I twist it, Christianity has played too large of a role in allowing such discrimination and hatred to persist. Not everybody who is a Christian has, of course, but when it comes to this, I'm afraid all it takes is the bad people to spoil it all. Christianity is so accepted into Western society that when somebody claims something to be a religious belief, it garners some level of respect. It may not when it comes to individuals like us, but when it comes to lawmakers and people in positions of power, it oftentimes does, and this is all it takes. Blacks and women were denied rights and thought of as lesser people for the longest time, and the Bible's words were right there to support that. Nowadays, even in such a progressive society, the effect is still there. School districts are getting pressured by Christian hate groups to remain 'neutral' to homosexuality. Moreover not say anything about sexuality, and not be able to speak about it. All this does is allow for bullies to say incredibly nasty things to homosexuals or kids who are perceived to be homosexual, and because of the 'neutrality' the staff can't do a thing about it. They just have to let it go on. Where this 'policy' has been implemented, there have been many suicides by those who are homosexual or perceived as such. Now tell me, do you think that such a bad policy could have ever gotten implemented if the group pushing for it wasn't (supposedly) motivated by religious belief?

Again, I am not saying that Christians in general are like this. I know that they are not. It's just that the bad outweighs the good. Since I also believe that Christianity is false, I honestly just want it to go away. Not to spite those good believers. I don't want it forced upon them, I just want society to move away from Christianity, so the influence of it upon lawmakers and people in power can go down greatly. No matter how many good Christians there are, the bad ones have too much influence. I'm afraid that influence will remain until the day that society isn't so pressured by Christianity anymore.

This is why I press for a strict separation of church and state. Perhaps if it were followed like that, Christians and other religious believers could still continue to believe, but the influence upon society and lawmaking would be so much lower that I wouldn't care so much anymore. However, today that is not a reality. And that's not even going into the governments that still allow full-scale discrimination toward women and homosexuals. Don't even get me started on that.

Call me an 'Angry Atheist' all you want, it isn't going to change. I'm just a passionate person.
Title: Re: Angry Atheists
Post by: technolud on May 03, 2012, 11:17:03 AM
On a % basis, I believe I've met more "angry" christians then atheists.

Some people just don't play well together.  I don't see "angry" atheists as a large problem.

However, I do believe atheists as a group need to work towards higher visibility and working as  a group to forward our beliefs, especially the seperation of church and state.  Talk about the silent majority.
Title: Re: Angry Atheists
Post by: Jimmy on May 03, 2012, 05:25:41 PM
   I agree with Radiant on the point that it appropriate to feel anger, given the extent that religion affects each and every one of our lives. However, I can't live my own life with anger, because it will destroy the best of who I am and the relationships I have. So, yeah, I feel discontentment and sometimes a little anger, but I try my best to have control over that emotion; it can be a dangerous one.

   It has taken me years to develop my own outlook on life, one without superstition, or the supernatural, but the one thing the religious cannot take from me is my peace of mind in knowing and understanding the world and accepting it for what it really is in a way that is completely different from how many of them see it. But, I don't demonstrate this to them by telling them their ways are wrong, even if I know they are, but by finding that common ground, which takes the form of human decency, and by setting an example for others to follow.  Besides, religiosity in individuals isn't fixed. Many of us have been religious in the past and have tried more than one path before arriving to atheism (some atheist will also go on and adopt a religion again). So because any religious person can at some point become atheist, as I have, I really don't have any room to criticize anyone.

   I actually tend to get along quite well with many religious people and have very little reason to be angry toward the religious in day-to-day life. But, I am a strong and passionate supporter of the separation of church and state and will use reason, not anger, to make my case in the public realm. I'm very tolerant of religion in the private sphere, not so much in the public, at least in education, health care, and law because it affect all members of society.


Title: Re: Angry Atheists
Post by: Ali on May 03, 2012, 06:21:27 PM
On a % basis, I believe I've met more "angry" christians then atheists.

Some people just don't play well together.  I don't see "angry" atheists as a large problem.

However, I do believe atheists as a group need to work towards higher visibility and working as  a group to forward our beliefs, especially the seperation of church and state.  Talk about the silent majority.

This is kind of along the same lines I was thinking too.  I remember reading an article written by an atheist talking about the perception of the "angry atheist", and the part that really stuck with me is about the phrase "militant atheist."  Pretty common phrase, yes?  Also fairly uncommon to hear, for example "militant Christian" or "Militant Jew" or whatever, even though in the history of humanity, atheists have rarely martialed any sort of military style attacks on the behalf of atheism, where as there have been plenty of literal Christian armies, and it's not really that out there to consider the Israeli army a Jewish army, et cetera.  Generally speaking, when you call someone a "militant" atheist, what that usually means is that it's someone who may debate theists in the comments section of online newspaper articles or maybe help sponsor a billboard.   ;D  Not incredibly "militant" when you think about the actual connotations of "militant".  Which is not to fall into some sort of "Theists are actually militant, so we can get away with being snotty" type two-wrongs-making-a-right thinking.  I just think it's interesting, and kind of shows a sort of built in bias against atheists.
Title: Re: Angry Atheists
Post by: Ecurb Noselrub on May 03, 2012, 07:19:48 PM
Actually a forum like this is a pretty good way to deal with this attitude.  Since it's foundation is being happy, and it is quite civil compared to other places, a believer ought to feel fairly comfortable coming here and discussing things.  In that discussion, both sides can actually attempt to communicate and come to a better understanding of each other, even if nobody is going to change their mind about faith.  If you try to communicate, usually you can find some common ground, and that goes a long way toward softening anger. 
Title: Re: Angry Atheists
Post by: Firebird on May 04, 2012, 02:05:20 AM
Generally speaking, when you call someone a "militant" atheist, what that usually means is that it's someone who may debate theists in the comments section of online newspaper articles or maybe help sponsor a billboard.   ;D  Not incredibly "militant" when you think about the actual connotations of "militant".  Which is not to fall into some sort of "Theists are actually militant, so we can get away with being snotty" type two-wrongs-making-a-right thinking.  I just think it's interesting, and kind of shows a sort of built in bias against atheists.

At the risk of gross generalization, that's a common tactic among the conservatives in the US. "Militant atheist", "elitist", "un-American", etc...attaching supposedly evil labels to people who disagree with them, whether it be in matters of separation of church and state, gay rights, etc.

There's a difference when you talk about this on a personal level vs. a more general, societal level. I'd like to think I'm not an angry atheist. I've had some religious friends without there being an issue; it generally didn't come up, and I respected their beliefs and did not object when they talked about them. I respect other people's beliefs as long as it doesn't get shoved in my face. But I relate to a lot of what Radiant was talking about. It's hard not to become angry when your own government is trying to shove it in your face and you're told that you're not patriotic because you don't believe in god. When someone like Michele Bachmann or Sarah Palin opens their mouths about god, family, etc. then I feel like I have to speak up, even if it's in an angry tone. I feel like I'm being personally attacked at that point. And I can't deny that I feel our society would be much better off without organized religion.

I think it all depends on the degree of religiosity. Not that it would ever happen, but if my wife were to ever decide she believed in god and wanted to start going to religious services, it would bother me, and I'd probably fight with her about it. But I wouldn't leave her. If she became some sort of religious zealot who didn't respect my non-belief and objected to how I lived my life on religious grounds, it would be a whole other matter. But by then she would be unrecognizable as the person I know and love.

Not sure if that really answered the question or not.
Title: Re: Angry Atheists
Post by: The Magic Pudding on May 04, 2012, 02:53:33 AM
Pretty common phrase, yes?  Also fairly uncommon to hear, for example "militant Christian" or "Militant Jew" or whatever, even though in the history of humanity, atheists have rarely martialed any sort of military style attacks on the behalf of atheism, where as there have been plenty of literal Christian armies, and it's not really that out there to consider the Israeli army a Jewish army, et cetera. 

Militant may be kept for those unruly types not accepting the place their betters have set for them. Feminists, atheists, unionists, environmentalists, human rights activists, in other words trouble makers undermining the foundations of society.
Title: Re: Angry Atheists
Post by: fester30 on May 04, 2012, 11:37:20 PM
Pretty common phrase, yes?  Also fairly uncommon to hear, for example "militant Christian" or "Militant Jew" or whatever, even though in the history of humanity, atheists have rarely martialed any sort of military style attacks on the behalf of atheism, where as there have been plenty of literal Christian armies, and it's not really that out there to consider the Israeli army a Jewish army, et cetera. 

Militant may be kept for those unruly types not accepting the place their betters have set for them. Feminists, atheists, unionists, environmentalists, human rights activists, in other words trouble makers undermining the foundations of society.

A militant Muslim is one who blows up buildings.  A militant atheist is one who defends themselves when religion is thrown in their face.  I love how the bar is set at different heights.
Title: Re: Angry Atheists
Post by: xSilverPhinx on May 05, 2012, 12:55:36 AM
Pretty common phrase, yes?  Also fairly uncommon to hear, for example "militant Christian" or "Militant Jew" or whatever, even though in the history of humanity, atheists have rarely martialed any sort of military style attacks on the behalf of atheism, where as there have been plenty of literal Christian armies, and it's not really that out there to consider the Israeli army a Jewish army, et cetera. 

Militant may be kept for those unruly types not accepting the place their betters have set for them. Feminists, atheists, unionists, environmentalists, human rights activists, in other words trouble makers undermining the foundations of society.

I perceive it in much the same way. The Western status quo is a sensitive thing...
Title: Re: Angry Atheists
Post by: Stevil on May 05, 2012, 08:53:46 AM
I am definitely going to read Quantum Leap. Sounds really interesting.
Sorry it is called Quantum Legacy.
Title: Re: Angry Atheists
Post by: OldGit on May 05, 2012, 10:00:19 AM
I have always tagged myself 'militant atheist' because I feel that having decided that religion is not only false, but also harmful, I feel I ought to oppose it actively.  However my weapon of choice would be humour every time, not anger.
Title: Re: Angry Atheists
Post by: Amicale on May 05, 2012, 12:56:12 PM
I have always tagged myself 'militant atheist' because I feel that having decided that religion is not only false, but also harmful, I feel I ought to oppose it actively.  However my weapon of choice would be humour every time, not anger.

I wish more people used humour rather than anger. People respond way better to humour. The world would be a happier place.
Title: Re: Angry Atheists
Post by: OldGit on May 05, 2012, 12:59:36 PM
True, Amicale, but don't forget just how cruel humour can be.
Title: Re: Angry Atheists
Post by: Amicale on May 05, 2012, 01:06:50 PM
True, Amicale, but don't forget just how cruel humour can be.

Good point. That's why I prefer the self-deprecating sort.
Title: Re: Angry Atheists
Post by: Amicale on May 05, 2012, 01:48:22 PM
An atheist was taking a walk through the woods, admiring all that evolution had created.

“What majestic trees! What powerful rivers! What beautiful animals!”, he said to himself. As he was walking along the river, he heard a rustling in the bushes behind him. When he turned to see what the casue was, he saw a 7-foot grizzly charging right towards him. He ran as fast as he could. He looked over his shoulder and saw that the bear was closing, He ran even faster, crying in fear. He looked over his shoulder again, and the bear was even closer. His heart was pounding and he tried to run even faster. He tripped and fell on the ground. He rolled over to pick himself up, but saw the bear right on top of him, reaching for him with his left paw and raising his right paw to strike him.

At that moment, the Atheist cried out “Oh my God!….” Time stopped. The bear froze. The forest was silent. Even the river stopped moving.

As a bright light shone upon the man, a voice came out of the sky, “You deny my existence for all of these years; teach others I don”t exist; and even credit creation to a cosmic accident. Do you expect me to help you out of this predicament? Am I to count you as a believer?”

The atheist looked directly into the light “It would be hypocritical of me to suddenly ask You to treat me as Christian now, but perhaps could you make the bear a Christian?” “Very well,” said the voice.

The light went out. The river ran again. And the sounds of the forest resumed.

And then the bear dropped his right paw ….. brought both paws together…bowed his head and spoke: “Lord, for what I am about to receive, I am truly thankful.”
Title: Re: Angry Atheists
Post by: Hector Valdez on May 18, 2012, 04:53:40 AM
Pototo Patahto
Title: Re: Angry Atheists
Post by: technolud on May 18, 2012, 05:22:52 AM
In the last few years I've started to believe that one of the defiining characteristics of religions folk is that they have to have an explanation for everything.   Where atheists are more willing to accept the unknown, that's why we don't have to insert a God-Creation story into our lives.  But that doesn't make us angry, just the opposite really.

I've never known an angry atheist, though lots of angry religious folk.   Does anyone on the forum know any angry atheists first hand?  (I mean like philosphical angry, not angry that the newspaper didn't come)
Title: Re: Angry Atheists
Post by: Amicale on May 18, 2012, 06:10:28 AM
Yes, offline I know or have known a few angry atheists. All of them have been fairly new to atheism as well - all have been ex-theists. I don't know personally any never-theists who display the same anger. I suspect that people who are coming out of religion are probably feeling hurt and angry over their past experiences with it, hence the public anger. It's just a guess though. I've also noticed that once people get over the newness of their atheism and in some cases the near-PTSD they went through in their religious life, they do settle down eventually and most seem to become less angry. Those who remain angry often have another reason for their anger to continue -- for example, they may be part of a group that religious people often like to bash, so they remain angry at the religious community in general.
Title: Re: Angry Atheists
Post by: OldGit on May 18, 2012, 10:55:35 AM
^  This.

One of our theists here - probably AD or Bruce - was saying this a while ago to some other theist who asked why we are so angry.

When a person is converted, they are promised so much.  When it turns out to be false, that's naturally a cause for anger.
Title: Re: Angry Atheists
Post by: Sweetdeath on May 18, 2012, 01:09:52 PM
^  This.

One of our theists here - probably AD or Bruce - was saying this a while ago to some other theist who asked why we are so angry.

When a person is converted, they are promised so much.  When it turns out to be false, that's naturally a cause for anger.


They are promised a lot of magical things. They are even made to as if they are better than others.

I'm only angry because dealing with the sheer ignorance of religious folk on an almost daily basis gives me bad energy. Like that feeling of "old people smell" except with negativity.
No offense, old git on  the oldpeople smell. :)
Title: Re: Angry Atheists
Post by: OldGit on May 18, 2012, 03:05:36 PM
Quote
No offense, old git on  the oldpeople smell.

Why, I'm mortally offended!

Quote from: Python
I fart in your general direction. Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries.
;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Angry Atheists
Post by: The Magic Pudding on May 18, 2012, 03:10:08 PM
I saw another story about people resisting immunisation.  It was looking at an area with a lot of new age crystal, herbal spiritual types.  A  high proportion reject immunisation, heard immunity is down so it is an unnecessarily dangerous place to have a baby.  As is usual in these stories you meet the loathsome cosmic butterfly morons and some grieving parents.  These stories do make me somewhat angry every time I hear them.
Title: Re: Angry Atheists
Post by: DeterminedJuliet on May 18, 2012, 04:50:25 PM
I saw another story about people resisting immunisation.  It was looking at an area with a lot of new age crystal, herbal spiritual types.  A  high proportion reject immunisation, heard immunity is down so it is an unnecessarily dangerous place to have a baby.  As is usual in these stories you meet the loathsome cosmic butterfly morons and some grieving parents.  These stories do make me somewhat angry every time I hear them.

I used to have an anti-vaccine mom on my facebook. She was convinced that vaccinating your baby causes autism. Most of her posts were so moronic, I unfriended her. Sometimes I really wonder how self-righteous she'd feel if her kid got ill with one of these easily avoided diseases. It does make me mad because a lot of anti-vaccine types say "Oh well, these diseases are barely around any more." Yes! Because parents like US vaccinate OUR kids to keep the population safer! 
Title: Re: Angry Atheists
Post by: Ali on May 18, 2012, 05:10:14 PM
I saw another story about people resisting immunisation.  It was looking at an area with a lot of new age crystal, herbal spiritual types.  A  high proportion reject immunisation, heard immunity is down so it is an unnecessarily dangerous place to have a baby.  As is usual in these stories you meet the loathsome cosmic butterfly morons and some grieving parents.  These stories do make me somewhat angry every time I hear them.

I used to have an anti-vaccine mom on my facebook. She was convinced that vaccinating your baby causes autism. Most of her posts were so moronic, I unfriended her. Sometimes I really wonder how self-righteous she'd feel if her kid got ill with one of these easily avoided diseases. It does make me mad because a lot of anti-vaccine types say "Oh well, these diseases are barely around any more." Yes! Because parents like US vaccinate OUR kids to keep the population safer! 

Oh boy, don't even get me started on the whole anti-vax rant.  It makes me crazy mad to see people knowingly reduce our herd immunity while at the same time banking on the fact that they can count on self same herd immunity keeping their kids safe.  Even after it came out that the whole study that linked vaxing to autism was a hoax, the stupidity and self-righteousness persists.  I used to belong to one of those mommy message boards (if you ever want to feel bad about your parenting, no matter what you do, join a mommy message board) and it was enough to make me gag.  All of these self-righteous mommies saying things like "Well, if YOU want to inject poisons and germs into your precious newborn, be my guest...."
Title: Re: Angry Atheists
Post by: Sweetdeath on May 18, 2012, 07:54:56 PM
If you're going to be all anti-vax. Keep your kid in a bubble! :<
Title: Re: Angry Atheists
Post by: Firebird on May 19, 2012, 05:17:30 PM
It's surprising how many smart people bought into that whole anti-vax crap. Not that it was just her, but why would you take parenting advice from Jenny McCarthy, of all people??
Title: Re: Angry Atheists
Post by: Sweetdeath on May 19, 2012, 07:04:50 PM
It's surprising how many smart people bought into that whole anti-vax crap. Not that it was just her, but why would you take parenting advice from Jenny McCarthy, of all people??

I dont understand what moron  takes parenting advice from any  celeberty.
Title: Re: Angry Atheists
Post by: The Magic Pudding on May 20, 2012, 06:35:45 AM
Quote from: Sweetdeath link=topic=9937.msg172173#msg172173
I dont understand what moron  takes parenting advice from any  celeberty.

Depends on the celebrity I think.  The celebrities I like, the ones the that are like clever friends you can't talk to, I'd listen to them.

OK so I get my news from what I consider balanced sources but not everyone does, they find them boring, maybe elitist or highbrow when viewed from a lowbrow perspective.  What is the mass media doing on this, are they shouting about these real horror stories, the babies coughing themselves to death?  Do we need more adds, here's Mary, she's a moron, she loves nature and dolphins but distrusts vaccination.  Here is Jane, she watched her baby die last year in the kind of cruel way only nature can provide.  Jane says she wouldn't spit on Mary, "what's the point?" she asks  "I've had my vaccinations, it wouldn't do any good".