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Religion => Religion => Topic started by: rgprice on August 24, 2018, 01:47:39 AM

Title: My new book: Deciphering the Gospels Proves Jesus Never Existed
Post by: rgprice on August 24, 2018, 01:47:39 AM
Okay, trying this again :)

I just published my first book. The book just came out and is now on Amazon. I’m in the process of sending out copies for review. I won’t discuss all the people I’m working with on reviewing and promoting the book, but its most of the big names in the field.

What sets my book apart is the research I put into identifying literary references within the Gospel of Mark and how those references relate to the other Gospels. I identified dozens of new literary references within the Gospel of Mark that had not been recognized by prior biblical scholars.

The basic thesis of the book is that the idea that Jesus was a real person originated from the writing that is now called the Gospel of Mark, but the Gospel of Mark was written as a fictional political allegory in response to the First Jewish-Roman War of 70 CE. The author of that work was not trying to convince people that Jesus was real, in fact the work has many signs of blatant fictionality that the author clearly made quite conspicuous. That the work is entirely fictional is proven by the fact that virtually every scene is a literary allusion to the Jewish scriptures.

These literary allusions were misinterpreted by Greeks and Romans as evidence of prophecy fulfillment. All of the other Gospels, and indeed every single narrative about the life of Jesus, descends from this one original story. The early Christians, however, thought that each of the Gospels were independently written works that corroborated each other. What this analysis shows is that all narratives about Jesus descend from a single original narrative.

Furthermore, whoever wrote the Gospel of Mark had read the letters of Paul, and in fact the “teachings of Jesus” presented in the Gospel of Mark are all actually copies of the teachings of Paul. Paul’s teachings aren’t similar to Jesus’s teachings because Paul learned about his teachings from the community, Jesus’s teachings ARE Paul’s teachings.

The idea that the ancient Jewish scriptures were divinely true comes from the fact that the Greeks and Romans believed that the life and deeds of Jesus had been perfectly predicted by the ancient Jewish scriptures. Of course, what really happened was that the author of the original story just made many literary references to the scriptures, which they interpreted as prophecy fulfillment.

Anyway, it’s a lot to try and sum up in a few paragraphs.

A preview of the book is here: http://www.rationalrevolution.net/pdf/web/viewer.html?file=/pdf/DecipheringTheGospels_Preview.pdf#page=1
Title: Re: My new book: Deciphering the Gospels Proves Jesus Never Existed
Post by: Bluenose on August 24, 2018, 03:28:32 AM
One cannot prove a negative proposition.  Whilst I personally think it more likely than not that the Jesus of the gospels never existed and I accept that from what I have read there is no independent corroborating evidence for his existence, that is an altogether different kettle of fish to saying that it can be proved he did not exist in exactly the same way that it cannot be proved that gods do not exist.  I am not sure what you hope to achieve by promoting your book here, but you might find that exposing it to people who are familiar with using their critical faculties to evaluate claims might not give you the result you expect.  We may be atheists here but that does not mean that we will simply embrace everything said that is written that is apparently against the traditional religious narrative.  We are going to examine such claims with the same searchlight we point at those religious narratives.  Beware.
Title: Re: My new book: Deciphering the Gospels Proves Jesus Never Existed
Post by: rgprice on August 24, 2018, 10:39:57 AM
What one can't do is address material that one has never read :p Quite a bit of the material of the book is available on-line in the preview I linked and the one on Amazon.

Do you think it's possible to prove that Luke Skywalker never existed? How about Huckleberry Finn? Can you prove that someone didn't commit a crime?

These things are proven by proving that alternative explanations are true.

And not even discussing the material in my book, let's just consider an extreme case of evidence against the existence of Jesus.

Let's say a trove a documents was found dating to the early 1st century which explicitly stated that Jesus was a heavenly messiah who had never come to earth and never taken human form.

In fact, we practically do have this in the letters of Paul.

My book easily proves is case based on a overwhelming amount of concrete specific evidence that has never before been published.

Title: Re: My new book: Deciphering the Gospels Proves Jesus Never Existed
Post by: Dave on August 24, 2018, 11:49:45 AM
Quote
My book easily proves is case based on a overwhelming amount of concrete specific evidence that has never before been published.

That's very interesting, Mr Price, I hope these sources are fully cited, here or in the book, so that others may decide on their veracity for themselves.
Title: Re: My new book: Deciphering the Gospels Proves Jesus Never Existed
Post by: rgprice on August 24, 2018, 01:41:43 PM
It's interesting because my book gets a lot of pushback from many sides.

1) Before even reading it many people say, "you can't prove someone didn't exist," which is not only not true, but I'm also actually very careful how I address this in the book. Also the title is a counter to the works of early apologists such as "The Proof of the Gospel" by Eusebius and the many claims that they made about "proving the divinity of Jesus" via the Gospels.  What my work shows is basically that the things they thought proved the divinity of Jesus are actually key evidence which shows that Jesus never existed at all.
2) My work goes against many of the claims made by other mythicists. So the work is also challenging to many mythicists.
3) Of course the material is challenging to Christians as well.

So the work shows both that Christians are wrong about the origins of Christianity and much of the case made by mythicists about the origins of the Jesus story and Christianity are wrong too.  There are some points of agreement with other mythicists, but the evidence I present focuses heavily on Jewish origins and sources as opposed to the focus of many mythicists on pagan influences. I also don't really consider the case I put forward to be a case for "mythicism" per se, as what I demonstrate is that there was no "mythic development" of the concept of a human Jesus. What happened was Jesus was worshiped as an immaterial, uncorrupted heavenly messiah and then a single fictional story was written about him. That story, which is now called the Gospel of Mark, is where the idea that Jesus was a real person came from. However that narrative was invented in total by a single individual, it is not the product of community traditions or collective beliefs. So the idea that Jesus was real never stemmed from the development of oral legends or myths, it is the product of Greeks and Romans misunderstanding a single fictional story, and thinking that various copies of that story were independently written accounts, when in fact they are all just derivative from the one single source.
Title: Re: My new book: Deciphering the Gospels Proves Jesus Never Existed
Post by: Dave on August 24, 2018, 04:28:28 PM
Rgprice, feom my experience any and every book that makes bold claims to have discovered/explained/solved/decoded/etc ancient history (or many things scientific if it comes to that) is going to get a sceptical reception by any thinking person. (If they are not sceptical they are not thinking IMHO.)

Don't take it personally, there have been thousands of claims, over the history of the written word at least, and even ones by (formally) respected authorities have proved wanting.  Sorry, no-one here is going to take any such claim as "gospel" at first glance, every clsim and sub-claim must be inspected, discussed, considered and accepted or rejected.

Do you supply full disclosure of all the sources you cite for others to inspect?
Title: Re: My new book: Deciphering the Gospels Proves Jesus Never Existed
Post by: Icarus on August 25, 2018, 12:05:56 AM
I have a hefty book on a nearby shelf that is titled: Inventing Jesus by Paul Gabel.  It is impressively thorough in its assignations and bibliographies.  Gabel does not claim absolutely that the Jesus of the bible never existed.  He does give the reader overwhelming reasons to believe that the Jesus person is/was an invention of man, not of God, a virgin teenager or seemingly cuckolded husband.

I presume that  Mr Price has done his due diligence and that he is quite aware of Gabel's book, all 702 pages of it. 
Title: Re: My new book: Deciphering the Gospels Proves Jesus Never Existed
Post by: rgprice on August 25, 2018, 02:09:20 AM
Yes, everything is sourced, but one aspect of my book is that I include a lot of large full context quotes. My analysis deals primarily with translations of primary sources, so there really isn't much need for use of references as most of the analysis is presented directly so you can read the source material for yourself.
Title: Re: My new book: Deciphering the Gospels Proves Jesus Never Existed
Post by: Tank on August 26, 2018, 02:29:59 PM
Hi

Glad you made it. I'll read all the posts a little late.

Regards
Chris
Title: Re: My new book: Deciphering the Gospels Proves Jesus Never Existed
Post by: rgprice on September 01, 2018, 08:34:11 PM
I've posted a new summary of the book on my website: http://www.rationalrevolution.net/articles/deciphering_the_gospels.htm

I've heard back from Robert M. Price and he said he should be posting a review of the book soon. I'll post it here when he does.
Title: Re: My new book: Deciphering the Gospels Proves Jesus Never Existed
Post by: g2perk on September 19, 2018, 05:56:51 PM
What are your primary sources you say you have that proves Jesus never existed. One of the main reasons the Bible is misunderstood is simply because it’s not for everyone. It’s only for those of us that have Faith. It’s literally a guide for us to keep to a certain path to ultimately gain eternal life.


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Title: Re: My new book: Deciphering the Gospels Proves Jesus Never Existed
Post by: Dave on September 19, 2018, 06:02:33 PM
What are your primary sources you say you have that proves Jesus never existed. One of the main reasons the Bible is misunderstood is simply because it’s not for everyone. It’s only for those of us that have Faith. It’s literally a guide for us to keep to a certain path to ultimately gain eternal life.


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Hi, g2perk, welcome to the forum, hope you stay and debate.

That is an interesting perspective, just ignore the truth or otherwise of the bible and just think of it as a  believer's manual. I don't have a Rolls Royce so a manual for one would provide me with no more than academic interest, I could not apply it to my Toyota Aygo.

Yup, it fits!

Oh, hang on, I can go and actually touch the Roller, even drive it if I get lucky, so perhaps my parallel deviates . . .
Title: Re: My new book: Deciphering the Gospels Proves Jesus Never Existed
Post by: g2perk on September 26, 2018, 02:57:41 PM
Ok. That is a typical unbelievers reaction. I’m sure my comment made you feel some type of way.  But all honesty it is true with all facts to back that up. The Bible was written for believers (Hebrews). If anyone reads this book with a closed mind then the outcome will be limited. It introduces the Spirit to the human body. If you would like we can go into detail.  One misunderstanding I would like to start with is this. Many ppl think when Jesus comes back he is going to judge our sins. That cannot be further from the Truth. Believers Faith comes because we know Sin was dealt with when Jesus Died on the cross. It’s no longer important. The only thing that remains is the consequences of sin in this earthly realm.  “And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:27-28‬ ‭ESV‬‬
http://bible.com/59/heb.9.27-28.esv


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Title: Re: My new book: Deciphering the Gospels Proves Jesus Never Existed
Post by: xSilverPhinx on September 26, 2018, 03:13:02 PM
Ok. That is a typical unbelievers reaction. I’m sure my comment made you feel some type of way.  But all honesty it is true with all facts to back that up. The Bible was written for believers (Hebrews). If anyone reads this book with a closed mind then the outcome will be limited. It introduces the Spirit to the human body. If you would like we can go into detail.  One misunderstanding I would like to start with is this. Many ppl think when Jesus comes back he is going to judge our sins. That cannot be further from the Truth. Believers Faith comes because we know Sin was dealt with when Jesus Died on the cross. It’s no longer important. The only thing that remains is the consequences of sin in this earthly realm.  “And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:27-28‬ ‭ESV‬‬
http://bible.com/59/heb.9.27-28.esv


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Hey, if you feel it makes you a better person then go for it. I and many others do not feel we need an outdated morally contradictory book to 'help us deal with our sins', and certainly see no value in quoting passages of the bible to claim the veracity of the bible...

(That's called circular reasoning)  ::)
Title: Re: My new book: Deciphering the Gospels Proves Jesus Never Existed
Post by: Dave on September 26, 2018, 04:11:52 PM
Ok. That is a typical unbelievers reaction. I’m sure my comment made you feel some type of way.  But all honesty it is true with all facts to back that up. The Bible was written for believers (Hebrews). If anyone reads this book with a closed mind then the outcome will be limited. It introduces the Spirit to the human body. If you would like we can go into detail.  One misunderstanding I would like to start with is this. Many ppl think when Jesus comes back he is going to judge our sins. That cannot be further from the Truth. Believers Faith comes because we know Sin was dealt with when Jesus Died on the cross. It’s no longer important. The only thing that remains is the consequences of sin in this earthly realm.  “And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:27-28‬ ‭ESV‬‬
http://bible.com/59/heb.9.27-28.esv


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I would guess that it was originally a codification of common sense rules, probably for getting your tribe to survive in a time of lousy health care, rough justice and very few comforts, when the rulers were even further above the ordinary person than they are now.

Later those with a thirst for a bit of authority of their own embellished it in terms Joshua Public could understand. Once a bunch have a hold on a bit of piwer they tend to build on it and use it as an authority.

Then centuries later, a bunch of foriegners try to translate it into terms that their common masses can understand, as translated from Latin by some local priest (who has his own opinions.)

Maybe a smidgeon or two of the original intent survived the process.
Title: Re: My new book: Deciphering the Gospels Proves Jesus Never Existed
Post by: g2perk on September 30, 2018, 08:20:44 PM
Ok. That is a typical unbelievers reaction. I’m sure my comment made you feel some type of way.  But all honesty it is true with all facts to back that up. The Bible was written for believers (Hebrews). If anyone reads this book with a closed mind then the outcome will be limited. It introduces the Spirit to the human body. If you would like we can go into detail.  One misunderstanding I would like to start with is this. Many ppl think when Jesus comes back he is going to judge our sins. That cannot be further from the Truth. Believers Faith comes because we know Sin was dealt with when Jesus Died on the cross. It’s no longer important. The only thing that remains is the consequences of sin in this earthly realm.  “And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:27-28‬ ‭ESV‬‬
http://bible.com/59/heb.9.27-28.esv


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Hey, if you feel it makes you a better person then go for it. I and many others do not feel we need an outdated morally contradictory book to 'help us deal with our sins', and certainly see no value in quoting passages of the bible to claim the veracity of the bible...

(That's called circular reasoning)  ::)

Well I was not suggesting what book you should read I was just commenting on this guys book. He suggested that God did not exist and he had proof. My take is simply if you don’t believe in a thing you won’t understand the thing.  Circulars reasoning you say well Im sorry if everything comes back around to the Creator.


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Title: Re: My new book: Deciphering the Gospels Proves Jesus Never Existed
Post by: Tank on September 30, 2018, 09:34:56 PM
"if you don’t believe in a thing you won’t understand the thing"

Utter rubbish. If you require 'belief' all you'll get is confirmation bias. If you can't put aside your 'belief' in a subject you can not possibly be objective about it. And if you can't be objective your view is totally meaningless.
Title: Re: My new book: Deciphering the Gospels Proves Jesus Never Existed
Post by: Essie Mae on October 01, 2018, 01:22:09 AM
A real person? Not a real person? Whatever he facts are, those who believe are allowing people who lived a couple of thousand years ago to mess with their minds now.   
Title: Re: My new book: Deciphering the Gospels Proves Jesus Never Existed
Post by: xSilverPhinx on October 02, 2018, 01:54:14 AM
Ok. That is a typical unbelievers reaction. I’m sure my comment made you feel some type of way.  But all honesty it is true with all facts to back that up. The Bible was written for believers (Hebrews). If anyone reads this book with a closed mind then the outcome will be limited. It introduces the Spirit to the human body. If you would like we can go into detail.  One misunderstanding I would like to start with is this. Many ppl think when Jesus comes back he is going to judge our sins. That cannot be further from the Truth. Believers Faith comes because we know Sin was dealt with when Jesus Died on the cross. It’s no longer important. The only thing that remains is the consequences of sin in this earthly realm.  “And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭9:27-28‬ ‭ESV‬‬
http://bible.com/59/heb.9.27-28.esv


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hey, if you feel it makes you a better person then go for it. I and many others do not feel we need an outdated morally contradictory book to 'help us deal with our sins', and certainly see no value in quoting passages of the bible to claim the veracity of the bible...

(That's called circular reasoning)  ::)

Well I was not suggesting what book you should read I was just commenting on this guys book. He suggested that God did not exist and he had proof. My take is simply if you don’t believe in a thing you won’t understand the thing.  Circulars reasoning you say well Im sorry if everything comes back around to the Creator.


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I'm getting I-don't-know-what-a-fallacy-is vibes here.  ::)

Let's try and make it easy for you to understand.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning)

(https://pseudoastro.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/circular-reasoning-in-creationism.jpg)
Title: Re: My new book: Deciphering the Gospels Proves Jesus Never Existed
Post by: Tank on October 02, 2018, 07:47:50 AM
"Circulars reasoning you say well Im sorry if everything comes back around to the Creator. "

It doesn't. In fact nothing comes back to a creator. The simple fact is that nobody knows why the Universe we perceive exists at all and nobody ever has. Our ancestors made up stories to explain existence and those stories evolved into the myths that we now call religions and personal faith (delusions).

Humans made up gods. Why God? (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=8210.0)
Title: Re: My new book: Deciphering the Gospels Proves Jesus Never Existed
Post by: g2perk on October 03, 2018, 08:45:48 PM
This is to everyone,  I am a student of the scriptures, not a student of Religion so let’s get that straight. The part of scripture that many don’t understand is how the Spirit moved from person to person enlightening those that were worthy of carrying His message to the world. Bringing Humans from the darkness to the light. Inputing in them a moral compass which in turn guides our path. Now you can say I’m full of it and it’s just the universe, but even Those of you that don’t believe this knows there is more to the Bible than just old Ancient Men killing and taking over land. The scriptures that I am speaking of allows a person to actually follow the spirit through the journey of time. This is the real Faith.


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Title: Re: My new book: Deciphering the Gospels Proves Jesus Never Existed
Post by: Tank on October 03, 2018, 09:05:12 PM
This is to everyone,  I am a student of the scriptures, not a student of Religion so let’s get that straight. The part of scripture that many don’t understand is how the Spirit moved from person to person enlightening those that were worthy of carrying His message to the world. Bringing Humans from the darkness to the light. Inputing in them a moral compass which in turn guides our path. Now you can say I’m full of it and it’s just the universe, but even Those of you that don’t believe this knows there is more to the Bible than just old Ancient Men killing and taking over land. The scriptures that I am speaking of allows a person to actually follow the spirit through the journey of time. This is the real Faith.


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First warning for preaching. This sort of shit isn't welcome here.
Title: Re: My new book: Deciphering the Gospels Proves Jesus Never Existed
Post by: xSilverPhinx on October 03, 2018, 10:22:25 PM
This is to everyone,  I am a student of the scriptures, not a student of Religion so let’s get that straight. The part of scripture that many don’t understand is how the Spirit moved from person to person enlightening those that were worthy of carrying His message to the world. Bringing Humans from the darkness to the light. Inputing in them a moral compass which in turn guides our path. Now you can say I’m full of it and it’s just the universe, but even Those of you that don’t believe this knows there is more to the Bible than just old Ancient Men killing and taking over land. The scriptures that I am speaking of allows a person to actually follow the spirit through the journey of time. This is the real Faith.


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 :eyeroll: :picard facepalm:
Title: Re: My new book: Deciphering the Gospels Proves Jesus Never Existed
Post by: Sandra Craft on October 03, 2018, 10:33:48 PM
:eyeroll: :picard facepalm:

re: circular reasoning.  Many, many years ago I was reading an article in Ms. magazine and the author defended circular reasoning because "nature moves in a circle".  It was the last straw.  I still consider myself very much a feminist, but as of that moment I was out of the Women's Movement.
Title: Re: My new book: Deciphering the Gospels Proves Jesus Never Existed
Post by: xSilverPhinx on October 03, 2018, 10:56:35 PM
:eyeroll: :picard facepalm:

re: circular reasoning.  Many, many years ago I was reading an article in Ms. magazine and the author defended circular reasoning because "nature moves in a circle".  It was the last straw.  I still consider myself very much a feminist, but as of that moment I was out of the Women's Movement.

The things people come up with!
Title: Re: My new book: Deciphering the Gospels Proves Jesus Never Existed
Post by: rgprice on January 13, 2019, 03:48:25 PM
So, an update on this:

The book is doing well. Steven Pinker tweeted about in November, which drove a lot of interest. It's gotten a lot fo good reviews on various sites, Amazon, goodreads, etc.

Here is a website for the book: http://www.decipheringthegospels.com/

Here is a recent blog post I made about some of the major implications of the book: http://www.rationalrevolution.net/blog/?p=40

Title: Re: My new book: Deciphering the Gospels Proves Jesus Never Existed
Post by: xSilverPhinx on January 13, 2019, 03:52:33 PM
So, an update on this:

The book is doing well. Steven Pinker tweeted about in November, which drove a lot of interest. It's gotten a lot fo good reviews on various sites, Amazon, goodreads, etc.

Here is a website for the book: http://www.decipheringthegospels.com/

Here is a recent blog post I made about some of the major implications of the book: http://www.rationalrevolution.net/blog/?p=40

Well done!  8)
Title: Re: My new book: Deciphering the Gospels Proves Jesus Never Existed
Post by: 21stCenturyIconoclast on February 14, 2019, 09:57:06 PM



________________________

The complete irony is that why would the pseudo-christian really want Jesus to exist in the first place, especially if he is considered as Yahweh God incarnate?!

When the mythical Jesus becomes Yahweh god, then Jesus’ followers today have to accept the biblical axiom, among many horrific examples,  that Jesus caused brutal abortions, and the murdering of innocent fetus’ and babies!

"As for Ephraim, their glory shall fly away like a bird, from the birth even from the womb and from the conception.Though they bring up their sons, yet I will bereave them, that there shall not be a man left; yea, woe also to them when I depart from them! Ephraim, as I saw Tyre, is planted in a pleasant place; but Ephraim shall bring forth his sons to the murderer. Give them, O LORD, that which thou must give them; give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts. All their wickedness was in Gilgal, for there I took a dislike to them; for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of my house, I will never love them again: all their princes are disloyal. Ephraim was smitten, their root is dried up; they shall bear no more fruit; even though they bring forth, yet I will slay even the desirable fruit of their womb.” (Hosea 9: 11-16)

If only the pseudo-christian would check their calendars of late, where we’re in the 21st century, and not back in the pagan and primitive Bronze and Iron Age of thinking, of which their horrific bible was written.

Raise your hands if you want to worship a serial killer abortionist Jesus!


___________________
Title: Re: My new book: Deciphering the Gospels Proves Jesus Never Existed
Post by: Bluenose on February 15, 2019, 02:45:20 AM
This thread popped up on my unread posts list today, so I re-read the entire thread to make sure I understood the context.  While I did this my BS detector started pinging like crazy. Your claims for the Pauline letters are arrant nonsense.  They do not prove anything about the historical Jesus, they're only the misogynistic rantings of an absolute lunatic.
Title: Re: My new book: Deciphering the Gospels Proves Jesus Never Existed
Post by: g2perk on February 17, 2019, 09:25:26 PM



________________________

The complete irony is that why would the pseudo-christian really want Jesus to exist in the first place, especially if he is considered as Yahweh God incarnate?!

When the mythical Jesus becomes Yahweh god, then Jesus’ followers today have to accept the biblical axiom, among many horrific examples,  that Jesus caused brutal abortions, and the murdering of innocent fetus’ and babies!

"As for Ephraim, their glory shall fly away like a bird, from the birth even from the womb and from the conception.Though they bring up their sons, yet I will bereave them, that there shall not be a man left; yea, woe also to them when I depart from them! Ephraim, as I saw Tyre, is planted in a pleasant place; but Ephraim shall bring forth his sons to the murderer. Give them, O LORD, that which thou must give them; give them a miscarrying womb and dry breasts. All their wickedness was in Gilgal, for there I took a dislike to them; for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of my house, I will never love them again: all their princes are disloyal. Ephraim was smitten, their root is dried up; they shall bear no more fruit; even though they bring forth, yet I will slay even the desirable fruit of their womb.” (Hosea 9: 11-16)

If only the pseudo-christian would check their calendars of late, where we’re in the 21st century, and not back in the pagan and primitive Bronze and Iron Age of thinking, of which their horrific bible was written.

Raise your hands if you want to worship a serial killer abortionist Jesus!


___________________




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Title: Re: My new book: Deciphering the Gospels Proves Jesus Never Existed
Post by: g2perk on February 17, 2019, 09:29:07 PM
This thread popped up on my unread posts list today, so I re-read the entire thread to make sure I understood the context.  While I did this my BS detector started pinging like crazy. Your claims for the Pauline letters are arrant nonsense.  They do not prove anything about the historical Jesus, they're only the misogynistic rantings of an absolute lunatic.

Why would you say that Paul’s letters are nonsense?


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Title: Re: My new book: Deciphering the Gospels Proves Jesus Never Existed
Post by: Bluenose on February 18, 2019, 01:49:27 AM
This thread popped up on my unread posts list today, so I re-read the entire thread to make sure I understood the context.  While I did this my BS detector started pinging like crazy. Your claims for the Pauline letters are arrant nonsense.  They do not prove anything about the historical Jesus, they're only the misogynistic rantings of an absolute lunatic.

Why would you say that Paul’s letters are nonsense?


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Why would anyone think they are anything but nonsense, unless they've drunk the coolaid?
Title: Re: My new book: Deciphering the Gospels Proves Jesus Never Existed
Post by: SidewalkCynic on February 20, 2019, 03:48:14 PM
Why would you say that Paul’s letters are nonsense?

Why would anyone think they are anything but nonsense, unless they've drunk the coolaid?
Good argument - absolutely beautifully reasoned details! :P You are a god!
Title: Re: My new book: Deciphering the Gospels Proves Jesus Never Existed
Post by: Sandra Craft on February 20, 2019, 07:36:00 PM
Just a reminder -- the first rule for posting on this forum is civility. 
Title: Re: My new book: Deciphering the Gospels Proves Jesus Never Existed
Post by: mathetes on April 13, 2019, 07:34:40 AM
Okay, trying this again :)

I just published my first book. The book just came out and is now on Amazon. I’m in the process of sending out copies for review. I won’t discuss all the people I’m working with on reviewing and promoting the book, but its most of the big names in the field.

What sets my book apart is the research I put into identifying literary references within the Gospel of Mark and how those references relate to the other Gospels. I identified dozens of new literary references within the Gospel of Mark that had not been recognized by prior biblical scholars.

The basic thesis of the book is that the idea that Jesus was a real person originated from the writing that is now called the Gospel of Mark, but the Gospel of Mark was written as a fictional political allegory in response to the First Jewish-Roman War of 70 CE. The author of that work was not trying to convince people that Jesus was real, in fact the work has many signs of blatant fictionality that the author clearly made quite conspicuous. That the work is entirely fictional is proven by the fact that virtually every scene is a literary allusion to the Jewish scriptures.

These literary allusions were misinterpreted by Greeks and Romans as evidence of prophecy fulfillment. All of the other Gospels, and indeed every single narrative about the life of Jesus, descends from this one original story. The early Christians, however, thought that each of the Gospels were independently written works that corroborated each other. What this analysis shows is that all narratives about Jesus descend from a single original narrative.

Furthermore, whoever wrote the Gospel of Mark had read the letters of Paul, and in fact the “teachings of Jesus” presented in the Gospel of Mark are all actually copies of the teachings of Paul. Paul’s teachings aren’t similar to Jesus’s teachings because Paul learned about his teachings from the community, Jesus’s teachings ARE Paul’s teachings.

The idea that the ancient Jewish scriptures were divinely true comes from the fact that the Greeks and Romans believed that the life and deeds of Jesus had been perfectly predicted by the ancient Jewish scriptures. Of course, what really happened was that the author of the original story just made many literary references to the scriptures, which they interpreted as prophecy fulfillment.

Anyway, it’s a lot to try and sum up in a few paragraphs.

A preview of the book is here: http://www.rationalrevolution.net/pdf/web/viewer.html?file=/pdf/DecipheringTheGospels_Preview.pdf#page=1

Admittedly, I didn't read your book, sorry, so perhaps you deal with this in there.  But, what do you do with the John's Gospel?  It's not one of the synoptics, it's seemingly very personal, and written from a personal perspective with some incredible attention to some specific details.  Presumably, one must then also deal with John's epistles, which he (and others) make the claim of having known Jesus personally:

Quote
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life— the life was made manifest, and we have seen it, and testify to it and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was made manifest to us— that which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ. 4 And we are writing these things so that our joy may be complete.

I would also think you have to deal, on some level, with Luke's gospel as well.  By that, I mean clearly Luke is telling a story (a two-volume story which includes Acts) in which Luke narrates some of Acts as a participant, companion and traveler with Paul.  Luke's Gospel (volume 1) claims to be attempting to piece together the narrative from, "...those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word have delivered them to us." 

Quote
Inasmuch as many have undertaken to compile a narrative of the things that have been accomplished among us, just as those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word have delivered them to us, 3 it seemed good to me also, having followed all things closely for some time past, to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, 4 that you may have certainty concerning the things you have been taught.

Luke makes and interesting claim that needs to be addressed if your overall plan is to "prove" Jesus didn't exist from the gospels themselves.  Perhaps you address that in your book.

And, Acts (volume 2) Luke seemingly draws (at least in part) on his own experience and eyewitness accounts of Paul's ministry.  If so, it seems he spent quite a bit of time traveling with Paul, Barnabas and others and recounts the narrative in significant detail.  This means he would have interacted with said eyewitnesses he references in his gospel (i.e. Paul, Peter, James, etc.).

Just curious how and if you deal with these issues in proving Jesus didn't exist, as these seem to be stumbling blocks to your endeavor.  I'm always a bit skeptical when I hear the words "proof" regarding ancient texts, and especially when there is no such consensus within the academic community regarding your assertions.  Not only that, there are many who believe Jesus likely existed, even if they don't buy into the claims he was making or are non-religious.

Title: Re: My new book: Deciphering the Gospels Proves Jesus Never Existed
Post by: g2perk on September 07, 2019, 02:18:16 AM
This thread popped up on my unread posts list today, so I re-read the entire thread to make sure I understood the context.  While I did this my BS detector started pinging like crazy. Your claims for the Pauline letters are arrant nonsense.  They do not prove anything about the historical Jesus, they're only the misogynistic rantings of an absolute lunatic.

Why would you say that Paul’s letters are nonsense?


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Why would anyone think they are anything but nonsense, unless they've drunk the coolaid?
These things are foolishness to those that do not have Gods Spirit.


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Title: Re: My new book: Deciphering the Gospels Proves Jesus Never Existed
Post by: Bluenose on September 07, 2019, 07:29:06 AM
This thread popped up on my unread posts list today, so I re-read the entire thread to make sure I understood the context.  While I did this my BS detector started pinging like crazy. Your claims for the Pauline letters are arrant nonsense.  They do not prove anything about the historical Jesus, they're only the misogynistic rantings of an absolute lunatic.

Why would you say that Paul’s letters are nonsense?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Why would anyone think they are anything but nonsense, unless they've drunk the coolaid?
These things are foolishness to those that do not have Gods Spirit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Please be advised that we do not tolerate preaching in this forum.  See the forum rules (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=1522.0)
Title: Re: My new book: Deciphering the Gospels Proves Jesus Never Existed
Post by: Davin on September 09, 2019, 03:36:39 PM
This thread popped up on my unread posts list today, so I re-read the entire thread to make sure I understood the context.  While I did this my BS detector started pinging like crazy. Your claims for the Pauline letters are arrant nonsense.  They do not prove anything about the historical Jesus, they're only the misogynistic rantings of an absolute lunatic.

Why would you say that Paul’s letters are nonsense?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Why would anyone think they are anything but nonsense, unless they've drunk the coolaid?
These things are foolishness to those that do not have Gods Spirit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You don't have to believe in Ohm's Law for turning a light on to not be foolish.

You don't need to believe in the Theory of Gravity for throwing a ball to not be foolish.

You don't have to believe in the Theory of Relativity for sending and receiving messages around the world to not be foolish.

All those things and more work and are not foolish whether you beleive in the sciences they depend on or not.

So why would it be foolish only if you don't have this god's spirit? Why doesn't god stuff work as well as science stuff?