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Getting To Know You => Ask HAF => Topic started by: Tank on July 30, 2018, 10:37:09 AM

Title: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Tank on July 30, 2018, 10:37:09 AM
This thread is intended to be about technical questions eg What'd the difference between a RAW file and a jpg file? etc.

To post pictures of interest and for comment critique use the thread Photography, photos you took, photos you are in, photos you like, the lot! (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=7607.0)

I got my first serious camera in 1977, it was one of the first things I bought when I got a job. I have written some very simple novice level descriptions of the terms you will come across in photography if you want to do anything more than 'point and shoot'. In most of the subject headings I have added a link to the Wiki page for the subject if you wish to look at a subject in more detail.

If you have a question ask it. There is no such thing as a stupid question if it's an honest question.

Basic terms


What is the focal length (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Focal_length) of a lens?

Imagine a simple magnifying glass. Hold it up with a piece of paper behind it. Focus an image on the paper. The distance between the centre of the lens and the paper is the focal length of the lens.

The longer the focal length of the lens the narrower its angle of view. The shorter the focal length the wider its angle of view.

What is a telephoto lens? (Trick question)

It is any lens where its physical length is less than its focal length. In this case 'tele' stands for 'telescoped'. It is a term that has become synonymous with lenses with long focal lengths.

What is a telephoto lens? (Not a trick question)

It is a lens that appears to bring the subject closed to you than you would normally perceive it.

What is a 'standard' lens?

Well this has changed over the decades. Before zoom lenses (lenses that can change their focal length and remain in focus) a standard lens had a focal length of between 45 and 55mm (usually 50mm) on a 35mm film body. That focal length approximates the perceived central angle of view of the human eye. I say perceived as the actual angle of view of the human eyes are about 180°.

With zoom lenses now the norm a standard lens is in the order of 18mm to 55mm. (28 to 83mm in old 35mm terms)

What do the aperture (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aperture) numbers mean?

If a lens has a focal length of 100mm and the front lens is 37mm in diameter the lens has a maximum aperture of 100/37 = 2.8 or f2.8 in tog (photographer) speak.

This ratio is important as if you double 2.8 you get 5.6, then 11 (approximately) then 22, numbers that are often printed on lenses. So what? Well the area of the aperture halves with each successive step ('stop' in tog speak). This matters because halving the area halves the light transmitted through the lens as the numbers get larger the aperture physically gets smaller. So going from small numbers to larger numbers is called 'Stopping down' the lens.

What is the shutter speed (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shutter_speed)?

This is probably the simplest thing to understand in photography. The shutter is a mechanism (there are different types) that opens for a set time to let light coming in the lens get to the film (or digital sensor) to capture an image.

The shutter speeds go in steps (like aperture know as stops) that cut the mount of light in half e.g. 1/250th of a second lets in half the light of 1/125th of a second.

Film sensitivity (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_speed) or 'speed' and digital sensor sensitivity

In the pre-digital era the sensitivity of film was rated as 'ASA' or 'ISO' and started as low as 25, and went in a sequence approximating 25, 64, 100, 200, 400, 800 etc. and each step vaguely approximated a 'stop' like shutter speed and aperture size.

There was a distinct trade off between speed and picture quality. The higher the speed the lower the quality. There were two distinct process types, slides (projected) and negatives (printed). And within slides there were two distinct processes Kodak's 'Kodachrome' and the 'E6' for the rest.

Digital photography has inherited the terminology but as it has improved it has expanded the sensitivity range out of all recognition to the film era. While there are still issues with quality vs sensitivity I.E. the higher the sensitivity the poorer the quality you can now use sensitivities of 3200 with relative impunity and as technology improves the usability of higher sensitivities is bound to improve.

Another benefit of digital technology is that one can change sensitivity between frames and not wait till you had to finish a whole roll of film!

Secondary effect of the aperture, depth of field control.

The primary effect of the aperture is exposure control. However it has a creative secondary effect. It can be used to control which part of the image is in focus in front of the lens in relation to the position on the lens. This zone of focus is known as the 'depth of field (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depth_of_field)'. It is sometimes called the 'depth of focus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depth_of_focus)' but that is something else that goes on behind the lens.

The aperture you use is dependent on the effect you want in your final image. If you want everything to be in focus from as close as possible to the horizon then you use a smaller aperture (f16, f22). If you want your subject to appear against an out of focus background you use a larger aperture (f1.4, f2, f2.8). 

To get the correct exposure you will have to adjust the shutter speed and/or ISO 'speed'.


More advanced subjects


Hyperfocal distance (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperfocal_distance).

For any given aperture and lens combination there is what is known as a hyperfocal distance. This is the distance from the front of the lens that you focus on, respective of where the subject actually is. The farthest point of the depth of field will be at infinity (the horizon) and the nearest could be be a couple of meters in front of the lens while the lens is actually focused say 25m away. And everything from the horizon to 2m in front of you is in focus. This is how cheap little film cameras get away with not having a focusing mechanism. They have a wide angle lens with a small (f8) aperture lens with a focus set at the hyperfocal distance.

You can use the hyperfocal distance to good effect where you have moving subjects like a football match. Set the lenses focus so the distant part of the depth of field is the far side of the football pitch and then you don't have to touch the focus for the whole game.


File size vs file types (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_file_formats).

The most basic file is a Bit Map. It's pretty much what it says. Each pixel has a red, green and blue (RGB for short) byte associated with it. So a 100 x 100 pixel image will have 10,000 pixels each with 3 bytes of storage so it'll make a file of 30k bytes. If the image were 6,000 x 4,000 pixels the file would be 6,000 x 4,000 x 3 = 72 mega bytes! Well you couldn't view porn via a dial up modem with those file sizes so something had to be done!

The result was a jpg or jpeg file. A jpg file is a compressed file. The compression works because the human eye is imperfect and can't distinguish the subtleties of colour that can be reproduced on a screen. Essentially it takes adjacent pixels and if they are close enough in colour it makes an average colour for those pixels and records that. So if you have a blue sky it compresses very well indeed. A highly detailed photo of a peacock feather does not compress anything like as well. This is why images of a constant size (6k x 4k) have different size .jpg files.

A jpeg is what is known as a 'lossy compression' you can't get the original data back as it will have been 'averaged'. The TIF file type, often used in printing, is a non-lossy compression in that if adjacent pixels are identical the encoding loses no information by making an 'average' value.

A RAW file, given different names by different camera makers, is like a TIF file in that it is a non-lossy compression but is often a propitiatory encoding so you have to use a specialist image viewer to see it. Or the image viewer you use has a specific decoder built in for it.

Some image types such as .gif or .png can have layers and those layers can be transparent allowing an image to be dropped onto a coloured background and not having a white rectangle around it.
Title: Re: Photography technical questions.
Post by: Dave on July 30, 2018, 11:38:58 AM
This thread is intended to be about technical questions eg What'd the difference between a RAW file and a jpg file? etc.

To post pictures of interest and for comment critique use the thread Photography, photos you took, photos you are in, photos you like, the lot! (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=7607.0)

Good move, Tank.
Title: Re: Photography technical questions.
Post by: Tank on July 30, 2018, 12:55:06 PM
Thanks Dave
Title: Re: Photography technical questions.
Post by: jumbojak on July 30, 2018, 01:11:58 PM
This is a great idea. Expect lots of questions from me...
Title: Re: Photography technical questions.
Post by: Tank on July 30, 2018, 01:15:24 PM
File size vs file types.

The most basic file is a Bit Map. It's pretty much what it says. Each pixel has a red, green and blue (RGB for short) byte associated with it. So a 100 x 100 pixel image will have 10,000 pixels each with 3 bytes of storage so it'll make a file of 30k bytes. If the image were 6,000 x 4,000 pixels the file would be 6,000 x 4,000 x 3 = 72 mega bytes! Well you couldn't view porn via a dial up modem with those file sizes so something had to be done!

The result was a jpg or jpeg file. A jpg file is a compressed file. The compression works because the human eye is imperfect and can't distinguish the subtleties of colour that can be reproduced on a screen. Essentially it takes adjacent pixels and if they are close enough in colour it makes an average colour for those pixels and records that. So if you have a blue sky it compresses very well indeed. A highly detailed photo of a peacock feather does not compress anything like as well. This is why images of a constant size (6k x 4k) have different size .jpg files.

A jpeg is what is known as a 'lossy compression' you can't get the original data back as it will have been 'averaged'. The TIF file type, often used in printing, is a non-lossy compression in that if adjacent pixels are identical the encoding loses no information by making an 'average' value.

A RAW file, given different names by different camera makers, is like a TIF file in that it is a non-lossy compression but is often a propitiatory encoding so you have to use a specialist image viewer to see it. Or the image viewer you use has a specific decoder built in for it.

Some image types such as .gif or .png can have layers and those layers can be transparent allowing an image to be dropped onto a coloured background and not having a white rectangle around it.   
Title: Re: Photography technical questions.
Post by: Tank on July 30, 2018, 01:20:57 PM
This is a great idea. Expect lots of questions from me...

That's exactly why I started the thread and it could become a useful archive for others.
Title: Re: Photography technical questions.
Post by: hermes2015 on July 30, 2018, 02:01:50 PM
This thread is intended to be about technical questions eg What'd the difference between a RAW file and a jpg file? etc.

To post pictures of interest and for comment critique use the thread Photography, photos you took, photos you are in, photos you like, the lot! (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=7607.0)

I like your idea. Hope to learn lots here! I have taught myself some tricks over the years, but one can always learn new ones.
Title: Re: Photography technical questions.
Post by: hermes2015 on July 30, 2018, 02:06:07 PM
A RAW file, given different names by different camera makers, is like a TIF file in that it is a non-lossy compression but is often a propitiatory encoding so you have to use a specialist image viewer to see it. Or the image viewer you use has a specific decoder built in for it.

And it usually looks pretty disappointing and needs some post-processing similar to what we used to do in the darkroom.
Title: Re: Photography technical questions.
Post by: Tank on July 30, 2018, 02:11:58 PM
This thread is intended to be about technical questions eg What'd the difference between a RAW file and a jpg file? etc.

To post pictures of interest and for comment critique use the thread Photography, photos you took, photos you are in, photos you like, the lot! (http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=7607.0)

I like your idea. Hope to learn lots here! I have taught myself some tricks over the years, but one can always learn new ones.

I hope to learn a lot from you too!
Title: Re: Photography technical questions.
Post by: Dave on July 30, 2018, 02:12:09 PM
You just beat me to it, Tank!

 :grin:
Title: Re: Photography technical questions.
Post by: jumbojak on July 30, 2018, 02:31:08 PM
What should I look for in a wide angle lens? I'm trying to document some of the swampland around home and the neither my telephoto nor the lens that came with the camera do a satisfactory job.
Title: Re: Photography technical questions.
Post by: Tank on July 30, 2018, 02:32:02 PM
What should I look for in a wide angle lens? I'm trying to document some of the swampland around home and the neither my telephoto nor the lens that came with the camera do a satisfactory job.

What lens came with your camera?
Title: Re: Photography technical questions.
Post by: Tank on July 30, 2018, 02:39:47 PM
What is the focal length of a lens?

Imagine a simple magnifying glass. Hold it up with a piece of paper behind it. Focus an image on the paper. The distance between the centre of the lens and the paper is the focal length of the lens.

The longer the focal length of the lens the narrower its angle of view. The shorter the focal length the wider its angle of view.

Title: Re: Photography technical questions.
Post by: Tank on July 30, 2018, 02:42:34 PM
What is a telephoto lens? (Trick question)

It is any lens where its physical length is less than its focal length. In this case 'tele' stands for 'telescoped'. It is a term that has become synonymous with lenses with long focal lengths.
Title: Re: Photography technical questions.
Post by: Tank on July 30, 2018, 02:45:15 PM
What is a telephoto lens? (Not a trick question)

It is a lens that appears to bring the subject closed to you than you would normally perceive it.
Title: Re: Photography technical questions.
Post by: Dave on July 30, 2018, 02:47:48 PM
I think you have a panoramic mode on that camera, JJ, take a look here. But you really need the 18-55mm that comes with most Nikon D series kits. And a tripod and panning head . . .

https://www.nikonusa.com/en/learn-and-explore/a/tips-and-techniques/panoramas.html

Also Nikonites (worth joining):

https://nikonites.com/d3200/18099-how-take-panoramic-picture.html#axzz5MkFID4gS

My little Lumix compensates for hand held panoramic shots but best if you twist at the waist with legs spread for hand held.

Title: Re: Photography technical questions.
Post by: Tank on July 30, 2018, 02:50:58 PM
What is a 'standard' lens.

Well this has changed over the decades. Before zoom lenses (lenses that can change their focal length and remain in focus) a standard lens had a focal length of between 45 and 55mm (usually 50mm) on a 35mm film body. That focal length approximates the perceived central angle of view of the human eye. I say perceived as the actual angle of view of the human eyes are about 180°.

With zoom lenses now the norm a standard lens is in the order of 18mm to 55mm. (28 to 83mm in old 35mm terms)
Title: Re: Photography technical questions.
Post by: Dave on July 30, 2018, 02:53:05 PM
Following Tanks comments on lenses, the (usually) standard 55mm lens on a Nikon DSLR gives you an image that will be about the "size" you see things with the naked eye, maybe fractionally larger.. Look through the viewfinder then over the camera at the scene to check this.
Title: Re: Photography technical questions.
Post by: Dave on July 30, 2018, 02:59:02 PM
Tank, you have opened a flood gate here I think!

 :whirly:
Title: Re: Photography technical questions.
Post by: jumbojak on July 30, 2018, 03:26:37 PM
What should I look for in a wide angle lens? I'm trying to document some of the swampland around home and the neither my telephoto nor the lens that came with the camera do a satisfactory job.

What lens came with your camera?

It's an 18-55mm. I forget the aperture range.
Title: Re: Photography technical questions.
Post by: Dave on July 30, 2018, 03:44:01 PM
Using a tripod for photographing documents or items at ground or tabletop level. If your tripod allows it!

(https://imgur.com/TIZaF2r.jpg)

Below taken with 18-55 lens at closest allowed focus. But I did not bother with the lighting too much. Note the circular spirit level used, on the back of the camera, to get it level. (Later: 'cept I forgot to level the table first!)

(https://imgur.com/I1TOz9v.jpg)

Of course, larger docs need longer legs!
Title: Re: Photography technical questions.
Post by: Tank on July 30, 2018, 03:46:44 PM
What should I look for in a wide angle lens? I'm trying to document some of the swampland around home and the neither my telephoto nor the lens that came with the camera do a satisfactory job.

What lens came with your camera?

It's an 18-55mm. I forget the aperture range.

That's fine. Aperture isn't an issue here. Going on from Dave's comment about the panorama function. 18mm (28mm in old money) is about as wide as moderate cost 'standard' zoom lenses go. To get wider you'll need to buy a specialist wide angle zoom. Nikon do a 10-20mm it's on this list 10 Great Nikon DX Lenses (https://www.switchbacktravel.com/10-great-nikon-dx-lenses)

I would seriously try to try before you buy with wide angle zooms. They do not have the impact on pictures in the same way a telephoto lens does. But that might just be my preference for getting as close to a subject as possible.
Title: Re: Photography technical questions.
Post by: hermes2015 on July 30, 2018, 06:19:25 PM
Also Nikonites (worth joining):

https://nikonites.com/d3200/18099-how-take-panoramic-picture.html#axzz5MkFID4gS

Thanks, Dave. I wasn't aware of that group. I will lurk there a bit before I decide to join.
Title: Re: Photography technical questions.
Post by: Tank on July 31, 2018, 08:20:51 AM
What do the aperture numbers mean?

If a lens has a focal length of 100mm and the front lens is 37mm in diameter the lens has a maximum aperture of 100/37 = 2.8 or f2.8 in tog (photographer) speak.

This ratio is important as if you double 2.8 you get 5.6, then 11 (approximatly) then 22, numbers that are often printed on lenses. So what? Well the area of the aperture halves with each successive step ('stop' in tog speak). This matters because halving the area halves the light transmitted through the lens as the numbers get larger the aperture physically gets smaller. So going from small numbers to larger numbers is called 'Stopping down' the lens.
Title: Re: Photography technical questions.
Post by: Dave on July 31, 2018, 12:34:01 PM
What do the aperture numbers mean?

If a lens has a focal length of 100mm and the front lens is 37mm in diameter the lens has a maximum aperture of 100/37 = 2.8 or f2.8 in tog (photographer) speak.

This ratio is important as if you double 2.8 you get 5.6, then 11 (approximatly) then 22, numbers that are often printed on lenses. So what? Well the area of the aperture halves with each successive step ('stop' in tog speak). This matters because halving the area halves the light transmitted through the lens as the numbers get larger the aperture physically gets smaller. So going from small numbers to larger numbers is called 'Stopping down' the lens.

And think of the appeture & exposure as the volume of a "bucket" of light, 1/100 @ f11 is the same light "volume" as 1/50 @ f22 or 1/200 @ f5.6. Old cameras has the ecpisure and f-stop rings adjacent, you could turn them together, so you could easily change the combo for depth of field (smaller f-stop) or fast action (faster exposure) and the compensation was a automatic. DSLRs effectively do the same thing if you set one as priority, the other will adjust to suit. The combination is sometimes called the "Exposure Value" or "EV". The skill comesbin pivking the right values for the subjevt!

Depth of field is an interesting subject to look at scientifically, "circles of confusion" are involved - yeah, I'll agree with that! But it can be used creatively - if you want a picture of, say, a flower without all the other background plants distracting the eye use a large = short depth of field f-stop. With luck the plants in the background will be in soft, or very soft, focus and less noticeable. This may mean a shorter exposure time - great for any movement of the bee on that fliwer, providing you have your focus at the right spot! This is technique that needs a little practice, or extra shots at smaller f-stops to ensure the whole flower is sharp. Some cameras do three shot " EV bracketting".

Actually I find this thread valuable to sharpen up my own knowledge, let alone any tips we give to each other! They say "teaching is the best way of learning," maybe it is the effort of explaining things in understandable terms without spoon feeding.
Title: Re: Photography technical questions.
Post by: Tank on August 03, 2018, 08:11:18 AM
What is the shutter speed?

This is probably the simplest thing to understand in photography. The shutter is a mechanism (there are different types) that opens for a set time to let light coming in the lens get to the film (or digital sensor) to capture an image.

The shutter speeds go in steps (like aperture know as stops) that cut the mount of light in half e.g. 1/250th of a second lets in half the light of 1/125th of a second.
Title: Re: Photography technical questions.
Post by: Bluenose on August 03, 2018, 10:46:17 AM
For available light (ie no flash) fans like me, wide aperture lenses are the go.  My favourite lens for my Canon EOS 600D* DSLR is the Canon f1.4 50 mm fixed focal length lens.  It lets in plenty of light so it works well in low light conditions and provides good sharp images across the frame.  Having a wide lens means that for the same lighting conditions you can use a faster exposure, which minimises camera shake and subject movement caused blurring.  50 MM is a good all-round general purpose focal length, excellent for portraiture and being fixed focal length it is not subject to some of the image quality issues that come with zoom lenses.  Although to be fair, modern zoom lenses are a far better than some of the ones we used to battle with back in the day!  LOL

* The 600D has a "crop frame" sensor, about 60% the size (width and height) of a 35 mm film frame (other cameras use different ratios).  Some fully professional DSLR cameras have full frame sensors, but they are considerably more expensive.  BTW, crop frame sensors have the additional effect that the equivalent focal length of the lens is greater than for a full frame sensor, so a 50 mm lens on a crop frame camera will produce images roughly equivalent to that of a 80 to 100 mm lens on a full frame camera, depending on the exact size of the sensor.
Title: Re: Photography technical questions.
Post by: Dave on August 03, 2018, 11:29:11 AM
I had an idea . . .

But I do not have access to a garden at the moment and am not sure what the flower situation is.

The idea is to "bait" a flower with a little honey or syrup, set the camera up on a tripod and see if the bait attracts any beasties.

To keep things well in focus I also thought of cutting a piece of stiff card with a hole at one end to trap it between the camera and tripod plus a clothes peg (maybe padded with a bit of tissue) hotmelt glued to the other to hold the flower stem steady. I may develop this idea into something more robust and flexible.

Tank, could this thread perhaps be changed to ". . . questions, tips and techniques"?
Title: Re: Photography technical questions.
Post by: Tank on August 03, 2018, 12:19:57 PM
...

Tank, could this thread perhaps be changed to ". . . questions, tips and techniques"?

Changed to "Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques."
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on August 07, 2018, 12:10:44 PM
I took some photos this morning to illustrate the power of Vibration Reduction (VR), as Nikon calls it, to reduce blur caused by camera shake. This is useful in low light situations when one does not want to use flash or a tripod. I used a Nikon 24-85mm lens, with VR turned on and off, to compare the results. All the photos were taken handheld, at ISO 200. No post-processing sharpening was used.

Shutter speed 0.5 seconds, VR on
(https://i.imgur.com/oQNI9Rc.jpg)

Shutter speed 0.5 seconds, VR off
(https://i.imgur.com/tZvF4nB.jpg)

Shutter speed 0.25 seconds, VR on
(https://i.imgur.com/MwDuY6Z.jpg)

Shutter speed 0.25 seconds, VR off
(https://i.imgur.com/RDqnE9Z.jpg)

I think the results speak for themselves.
The VR system on the lens is VR I. The latest technology (VR II) is reported to work even better.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on August 07, 2018, 01:52:09 PM
I can achieve fuzziness at max zoom even with VR switched on!
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on August 07, 2018, 02:22:54 PM
I can achieve fuzziness at max zoom even with VR switched on!

 :snicker1:
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on August 07, 2018, 02:35:15 PM
I found a neat RAW editor and viewer called Darktable. It's supposed to be similar to Lightroom and is free so I've started shooting strictly in the RAW format. My camera seems faster than before.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on August 07, 2018, 02:42:17 PM
I found a neat RAW editor and viewer called Darktable. It's supposed to be similar to Lightroom and is free so I've started shooting strictly in the RAW format. My camera seems faster than before.

That's an excellent move; you will not regret it. I use Lightroom, but I will give Darktable a try. Do you know whether it has the Dehaze function?
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Tank on August 07, 2018, 03:02:43 PM
I found a neat RAW editor and viewer called Darktable. It's supposed to be similar to Lightroom and is free so I've started shooting strictly in the RAW format. My camera seems faster than before.
I shoot in fine jpeg + RAW and almost always use the jpeg straight out of the camera.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on August 07, 2018, 03:21:50 PM
I found a neat RAW editor and viewer called Darktable. It's supposed to be similar to Lightroom and is free so I've started shooting strictly in the RAW format. My camera seems faster than before.
I shoot in fine jpeg + RAW and almost always use the jpeg straight out of the camera.
I will have to take another look at RA. Only ever used it once, at the county archive, they wanted jpeg for the index and private customers but RAW for the actual archive and professional cutomers doing their own processing.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on August 07, 2018, 03:39:25 PM
I found a neat RAW editor and viewer called Darktable. It's supposed to be similar to Lightroom and is free so I've started shooting strictly in the RAW format. My camera seems faster than before.

That's an excellent move; you will not regret it. I use Lightroom, but I will give Darktable a try. Do you know whether it has the Dehaze function?

I do not. The workforce is taking a bit of getting used to. At the very least I'll save quite a bit of storage space on my hard drive.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on August 07, 2018, 03:50:40 PM
I found a neat RAW editor and viewer called Darktable. It's supposed to be similar to Lightroom and is free so I've started shooting strictly in the RAW format. My camera seems faster than before.

That's an excellent move; you will not regret it. I use Lightroom, but I will give Darktable a try. Do you know whether it has the Dehaze function?

I do not. The workforce is taking a bit of getting used to. At the very least I'll save quite a bit of storage space on my hard drive.

As much as I'm a proponent of shooting RAW, I have to admit that it does mean you have to put in more effort at the end to produce acceptable pictures. With JPG, most photos look reasonably OK straight out of the camera.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on August 07, 2018, 04:03:55 PM
Still can't seem to get the steadiness I want for full zoom shots with the monopod, and don't really want to drag my chunky tripod about. May try it as a bipod, just two legs extended. Could be used splayed or together. If that works I will look for a really lightweight tripod and maybe chop a leg off to reduce the weight further.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on August 07, 2018, 04:19:34 PM
Still can't seem to get the steadiness I want for full zoom shots with the monopod, and don't really want to drag my chunky tripod about. May try it as a bipod, just two legs extended. Could be used splayed or together. If that works I will look for a really lightweight tripod and maybe chop a leg off to reduce the weight further.

Do you own any VR lenses? If not, it may be worthwhile to invest in one.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on August 07, 2018, 05:13:01 PM
Still can't seem to get the steadiness I want for full zoom shots with the monopod, and don't really want to drag my chunky tripod about. May try it as a bipod, just two legs extended. Could be used splayed or together. If that works I will look for a really lightweight tripod and maybe chop a leg off to reduce the weight further.

Do you own any VR lenses? If not, it may be worthwhile to invest in one.

All my Nikkor kenses are VR and the Lumix has a similar system. But, at 30x zoom, I cannot seem to get a decent "quick" shot. A shake of a couple of mm gets outside the scope of the optical reduction. And the ability to be able to hit the button quickly, but not always smoothly, with beasties and birdies is essential. Dragon- and damselflies are easy with a steady camera if you set up and zoom in on their favourite perch - just wait for them to return. And I can use the IR or radio remote for the Nikon or the Lumixlink NFC app on my phone for that one. The latter is good because I can hide somewhere and see what the camera sees on the phone, with control of the zoom - but it is slow to react and reset.

Those dragonflies were not as crisp as I know the cameras can achieve, but they were the best of the bunch. Pictures picked from trial shots, using the monopod, today yielded more better quality shots at the same distance (shots of leaves, no dragonflies and only camera shy butterflies about.) But still too much movement on "grabbed" shots.

Hands and arms used to be rock steady once. Cable releases or bulbs were a boon as well, you could tread on the latter if need be . . .
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on August 07, 2018, 05:53:09 PM
Yes, I can see that the VR system is stretched a bit under those conditions. Another option would be to use shutter priority mode and set a very high shutter speed, along with a higher ISO speed to still get decent exposure.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on August 07, 2018, 06:13:50 PM
Yes, I can see that the VR system is stretched a bit under those conditions. Another option would be to use shutter priority mode and set a very high shutter speed, along with a higher ISO speed to still get decent exposure.

Yes, high shutter speed + low f No OK for "shallow" subjects, the f4.5 on the 55-300 at 300 is a limitting factor though. Have to check online for the Lumix specs. I still suffer from the old concerns about loosing quality at high ISO to graininess, though that gave some great artistic effects using B&W film!.  Not sure what the effect is on digital, will experiment more.

There is more data retained in a "darkish" image than a "burned out" one.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on August 07, 2018, 07:20:36 PM
Yes, I can see that the VR system is stretched a bit under those conditions. Another option would be to use shutter priority mode and set a very high shutter speed, along with a higher ISO speed to still get decent exposure.

Yes, high shutter speed + low f No OK for "shallow" subjects, the f4.5 on the 55-300 at 300 is a limitting factor though. Have to check online for the Lumix specs. I still suffer from the old concerns about loosing quality at high ISO to graininess, though that gave some great artistic effects using B&W film!.  Not sure what the effect is on digital, will experiment more.

There is more data retained in a "darkish" image than a "burned out" one.

Set it at ISO 800 or even 1600. You may be pleasantly surprised. On my D600 the noise at 1600 is still very low.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on August 07, 2018, 08:07:57 PM
Yes, I can see that the VR system is stretched a bit under those conditions. Another option would be to use shutter priority mode and set a very high shutter speed, along with a higher ISO speed to still get decent exposure.

Yes, high shutter speed + low f No OK for "shallow" subjects, the f4.5 on the 55-300 at 300 is a limitting factor though. Have to check online for the Lumix specs. I still suffer from the old concerns about loosing quality at high ISO to graininess, though that gave some great artistic effects using B&W film!.  Not sure what the effect is on digital, will experiment more.

There is more data retained in a "darkish" image than a "burned out" one.

Set it at ISO 800 or even 1600. You may be pleasantly surprised. On my D600 the noise at 1600 is still very low.

Will give it a go!

(Just checked camera, it was set at ISO 100!!)
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on August 08, 2018, 05:22:07 AM
Yes, I can see that the VR system is stretched a bit under those conditions. Another option would be to use shutter priority mode and set a very high shutter speed, along with a higher ISO speed to still get decent exposure.

Yes, high shutter speed + low f No OK for "shallow" subjects, the f4.5 on the 55-300 at 300 is a limitting factor though. Have to check online for the Lumix specs. I still suffer from the old concerns about loosing quality at high ISO to graininess, though that gave some great artistic effects using B&W film!.  Not sure what the effect is on digital, will experiment more.

There is more data retained in a "darkish" image than a "burned out" one.

Set it at ISO 800 or even 1600. You may be pleasantly surprised. On my D600 the noise at 1600 is still very low.

Will give it a go!

(Just checked camera, it was set at ISO 100!!)

That's unnecessarily low for normal photography. I have mine set on Auto ISO, with minimum 200, which means it does not drop below 200, but can go as high as needed automatically. One can limit the maximum, but I let mine go all the way to 6400 when it feels it has to, which has never happened to me. There is a special very high setting of 25600 for surveillance work, but I haven't tried it.

https://www.nikonusa.com/en/learn-and-explore/a/tips-and-techniques/understanding-auto-iso.html
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on August 08, 2018, 08:42:12 AM
This may be helpful.

Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Tank on August 08, 2018, 09:00:27 AM
Yes, I can see that the VR system is stretched a bit under those conditions. Another option would be to use shutter priority mode and set a very high shutter speed, along with a higher ISO speed to still get decent exposure.

Yes, high shutter speed + low f No OK for "shallow" subjects, the f4.5 on the 55-300 at 300 is a limitting factor though. Have to check online for the Lumix specs. I still suffer from the old concerns about loosing quality at high ISO to graininess, though that gave some great artistic effects using B&W film!.  Not sure what the effect is on digital, will experiment more.

There is more data retained in a "darkish" image than a "burned out" one.

Set it at ISO 800 or even 1600. You may be pleasantly surprised. On my D600 the noise at 1600 is still very low.

Will give it a go!

(Just checked camera, it was set at ISO 100!!)

That's unnecessarily low for normal photography. I have mine set on Auto ISO, with minimum 200, which means it does not drop below 200, but can go as high as needed automatically. One can limit the maximum, but I let mine go all the way to 6400 when it feels it has to, which has never happened to me. There is a special very high setting of 25600 for surveillance work, but I haven't tried it.

https://www.nikonusa.com/en/learn-and-explore/a/tips-and-techniques/understanding-auto-iso.html

"That's unnecessarily low for normal photography"! Did you ever use Kodachrome? It was 25 ASA!
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on August 08, 2018, 09:02:00 AM
This may be helpful.


Thanks, Hermes, that filled in some gaps (even after reading the manual!)
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on August 08, 2018, 09:08:56 AM
Yes, I can see that the VR system is stretched a bit under those conditions. Another option would be to use shutter priority mode and set a very high shutter speed, along with a higher ISO speed to still get decent exposure.

Yes, high shutter speed + low f No OK for "shallow" subjects, the f4.5 on the 55-300 at 300 is a limitting factor though. Have to check online for the Lumix specs. I still suffer from the old concerns about loosing quality at high ISO to graininess, though that gave some great artistic effects using B&W film!.  Not sure what the effect is on digital, will experiment more.

There is more data retained in a "darkish" image than a "burned out" one.

Set it at ISO 800 or even 1600. You may be pleasantly surprised. On my D600 the noise at 1600 is still very low.

Will give it a go!

(Just checked camera, it was set at ISO 100!!)

That's unnecessarily low for normal photography. I have mine set on Auto ISO, with minimum 200, which means it does not drop below 200, but can go as high as needed automatically. One can limit the maximum, but I let mine go all the way to 6400 when it feels it has to, which has never happened to me. There is a special very high setting of 25600 for surveillance work, but I haven't tried it.

https://www.nikonusa.com/en/learn-and-explore/a/tips-and-techniques/understanding-auto-iso.html

"That's unnecessarily low for normal photography"! Did you ever use Kodachrome? It was 25 ASA!

Sure, but that was film. We are talking digital, and modern cameras do a remarkable job at high ISO settings. Give it a try.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Tank on August 08, 2018, 09:12:24 AM
Film sensitivity or 'speed'.

In the pre-digital era the sensitivity of film was rated as 'ASA' and started as low as 25, and went in a sequence approximating 25, 64, 100, 200, 400, 800 etc. and each step vaguely approximated a 'stop' like shutter speed and aperture size.

There was a distinct trade off between speed and picture quality. The higher the speed the lower the quality. There were two distinct process types, slides (projected) and negatives (printed). And within slides there were two distinct processes Kodak's 'Kodachrome' and the 'E6' for the rest.

Digital photography has inherited the terminology but as it has improved it has expanded the sensitivity range out of all recognition to the film era. While there are still issues with quality vs sensitivity I.E. the higher the sensitivity the poorer the quality you can now use sensitivities of 3200 with relative impunity and as technology improves the usability of higher sensitivities is bound to improve.

Another benefit of digital technology is that one can change sensitivity between frames and not wait till you had to finish a whole roll of film!
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on August 08, 2018, 09:23:19 AM
Thanks, Tank, for your explanation.

Dave, for your zoom lens at 300mm, use AUTO ISO, set the ISO at 200, set maximum ISO at 3200, set the minimum shutter speed at 1/250 seconds, turn on VR. Try it and see whether it works well for you, but I'm pretty sure you will see an improvement.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on August 08, 2018, 09:42:24 AM
I have had a wuick trial of the bipod idea - a great improvement for me!

Even with the bipod egs together the 100mm between them gives a degree of lateral and rotational steadiness, reducing possible movement mainly to tilting back and forth - which is not really a problem with one's face and body forming the "third leg".

With the bipod legs apart there is, obviously, an increase in steadiness. Even without a pan&tilt or ball head (bith on a bit of friction) one can step forward between the bipod legs, and bend forward slightly, or step back, and crouch slightly, to get upward or downward shots.

The bipod means that you can always cosy up to a fence, say, for extra steadiness. The main disadvantage, with any support, is the inability for that fast, spontaneous shot, of a bird say, that a hand held camera gives. But then, my "fast spontaneous shots" are usually just of a blurred blob anyway!

A quick release camera mount is handy.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on August 08, 2018, 09:45:31 AM
Thanks, Tank, for your explanation.

Dave, for your zoom lens at 300mm, use AUTO ISO, set the ISO at 200, set maximum ISO at 3200, set the minimum shutter speed at 1/250 seconds, turn on VR. Try it and see whether it works well for you, but I'm pretty sure you will see an improvement.

I set that, 'cepting 1600 instead of 3200, after watching the video. VR is always on!

Thanks again, Hermes.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on August 08, 2018, 09:54:03 AM
I took these a few minutes ago in my place. I did not do any noise reduction or any other processing. Please ignore the bad focus in some, as they were taken in a hurry. The point is to compare the high ISO noise.

ISO 200
(https://i.imgur.com/Frg59Vg.jpg)

ISO 400
(https://i.imgur.com/1Fl8iPy.jpg)

ISO 800
(https://i.imgur.com/enHhpHv.jpg)

ISO 1600
(https://i.imgur.com/1T9Gfxc.jpg)

ISO 3200
(https://i.imgur.com/MmrBaXu.jpg)

ISO 6400
(https://i.imgur.com/jpQN2to.jpg)
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on August 08, 2018, 09:59:54 AM
Thanks, Tank, for your explanation.

Dave, for your zoom lens at 300mm, use AUTO ISO, set the ISO at 200, set maximum ISO at 3200, set the minimum shutter speed at 1/250 seconds, turn on VR. Try it and see whether it works well for you, but I'm pretty sure you will see an improvement.

I set that, 'cepting 1600 instead of 3200, after watching the video. VR is always on!

Thanks again, Hermes.

You are welcome and good luck. The shutter speed is recommended to be the inverse of the focal length, hence the recommended 1/250 second.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Tank on August 08, 2018, 10:34:05 AM
Thanks, Tank, for your explanation.

Dave, for your zoom lens at 300mm, use AUTO ISO, set the ISO at 200, set maximum ISO at 3200, set the minimum shutter speed at 1/250 seconds, turn on VR. Try it and see whether it works well for you, but I'm pretty sure you will see an improvement.

I'm building a basic set of descriptions for the novice. I'm adding them a single posts first to get them sense checked and then editing them back into the first post of the thread for the new reader. So you will see posts from me that bear no relationship to the flow of the thread :)
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on August 08, 2018, 10:43:21 AM
Thanks, Tank, for your explanation.

Dave, for your zoom lens at 300mm, use AUTO ISO, set the ISO at 200, set maximum ISO at 3200, set the minimum shutter speed at 1/250 seconds, turn on VR. Try it and see whether it works well for you, but I'm pretty sure you will see an improvement.

I set that, 'cepting 1600 instead of 3200, after watching the video. VR is always on!

Thanks again, Hermes.

You are welcome and good luck. The shutter speed is recommended to be the inverse of the focal length, hence the recommended 1/250 second.

After watching the video I left the shutter speed at "Auto" in case I swap lenses.

And, in answer to a question in a post I missed before. Yes, I did try 25 ASA film, in Cyprus, where there is a lot of sunshine! It was on a very cheap Halina 35X camera (all I could afford in those days) and basically a waste, no better than 100 ASA. We had a darkroom in the camp but could only process B&W film, so I could not expand and crop colour pictures. Learned a lot about things like using a ball of cotton wool, or shaped piece of torn paper, on a thin wire, or a hole in a card to "enhance" small areas - ah, nostalgia! Not the same as on an image editor - you could waste a lot of paper learning! Even played with using Indian ink, or scratches with a piece of razor blade, on the negatives to get effects.

We also got o-o-d paper from the aerial recon people, slow, high res stuff, on rolls 18" wide. We did an exposure of the negative of a scorpion, on 4ft of this, with the paper taped up on the wall and a 5 hour exposure IIRC.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on August 08, 2018, 10:46:48 AM
Thanks, Tank, for your explanation.

Dave, for your zoom lens at 300mm, use AUTO ISO, set the ISO at 200, set maximum ISO at 3200, set the minimum shutter speed at 1/250 seconds, turn on VR. Try it and see whether it works well for you, but I'm pretty sure you will see an improvement.

I'm building a basic set of descriptions for the novice. I'm adding them a single posts first to get them sense checked and then editing them back into the first post of the thread for the new reader. So you will see posts from me that bear no relationship to the flow of the thread :)

Sort of recognised that, Tank, I am finding that they trigger memory.  Maybe you could collect the final editions in a, "Tank's Tutorial" thread!
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on August 08, 2018, 11:08:42 AM
Thanks, Tank, for your explanation.

Dave, for your zoom lens at 300mm, use AUTO ISO, set the ISO at 200, set maximum ISO at 3200, set the minimum shutter speed at 1/250 seconds, turn on VR. Try it and see whether it works well for you, but I'm pretty sure you will see an improvement.

I'm building a basic set of descriptions for the novice. I'm adding them a single posts first to get them sense checked and then editing them back into the first post of the thread for the new reader. So you will see posts from me that bear no relationship to the flow of the thread :)

That will be very useful. Looking forward to seeing the posts.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on August 08, 2018, 01:39:56 PM
Interesting that the discussion turned to ISO. Last night I was experimenting with night photography on the boat and it's amazing just how much of a difference raising the ISO makes. None of the photos I took will be shared here but at higher settings it almost looked like they were taken in daylight.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on August 08, 2018, 01:55:16 PM
Interesting that the discussion turned to ISO. Last night I was experimenting with night photography on the boat and it's amazing just how much of a difference raising the ISO makes. None of the photos I took will be shared here but at higher settings it almost looked like they were taken in daylight.

That's one of the interesting parts of photography: the fact that one never stops learning.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Tank on August 08, 2018, 01:59:23 PM
Please share the shit as well as the good stuff on this thread if it illustrates a technical aspect.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on August 08, 2018, 02:25:06 PM
[ ...] Last night I was experimenting with night photography on the boat and it's amazing just how much of a difference raising the ISO makes. None of the photos I took will be shared here . . .  [...]

Oh, that kind of night photography, eh?

Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Tank on August 08, 2018, 03:10:56 PM
[ ...] Last night I was experimenting with night photography on the boat and it's amazing just how much of a difference raising the ISO makes. None of the photos I took will be shared here . . .  [...]

Oh, that kind of night photography, eh?

No wonder he doesn't want to share them! :rofl:
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on August 08, 2018, 03:26:20 PM
It was traffic... not sure what you fellows are insinuating... I'll get something up later today.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Tank on August 08, 2018, 03:29:01 PM
It was traffic... not sure what you fellows are insinuating... I'll get something up later today.

 :o :rofl:
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on August 08, 2018, 03:31:10 PM
Er, better put the shovel down, JJ  . . .
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on August 08, 2018, 05:33:10 PM
For Androids only:

Found Adobe Lightroom CC, free for basic version. Let's see what it can do . . .

Here is my last dragonfly image straignt from the camera:

(http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy67/DaveGlos/P1020366.jpg) (http://s778.photobucket.com/user/DaveGlos/media/P1020366.jpg.html)

Here it is with "Clarity" wound right up and a bit of "Haze" reduction:

(http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy67/DaveGlos/LRM_EXPORT_20180808_172023.jpg) (http://s778.photobucket.com/user/DaveGlos/media/LRM_EXPORT_20180808_172023.jpg.html)

Looks a bit sharper to me eyes, without too much degradation in other ways. Colour, contrast etc left as was.

Both transported via Photobucket.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on August 08, 2018, 05:50:03 PM
Would a shallower depth of field be advantageous for your dragonflies, Dave? I think it might help with a bit of sharpness on the fly itself if the background was a bit more blurred. Then again, I'm the new guy and could be completely wrong...
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on August 08, 2018, 06:42:23 PM
Would a shallower depth of field be advantageous for your dragonflies, Dave? I think it might help with a bit of sharpness on the fly itself if the background was a bit more blurred. Then again, I'm the new guy and could be completely wrong...

Not sure . . . The adjustment of it, of course, has darkened the background a bit. The background immediately behind the beastie is about 6" from it, the picture was taken at 30x zoom, restricted max appeture,  from about 7-8 feet away. The breeze was moving the beastie and the twig a little.

All in all it was a bit of a toss-up which way to go! And no problems with putting your pennyworth in, JJ, you may spot something we miss, and I did mention the idea of using a shallow d-o-f to achieve fuzzy backgrounds to small objects, to reduce distraction, in a previous post.

BTW. On my lunch trip to town today I bought a 2nd hand book on macrophotography from my fave bookshop, £6 for a book, in new condition, that was £25 in 2004. In that the author admits to using artificial backgrounds to save distraction - but he is looking for photography-as-art rather than as a record of the natural world or for scientific purposes etc. The only annoying thing is he has not included listing the kit, speed, appeture etc for the shots.

The author John Brackenberry, is evidently a professional photographer, in 2004, who makes no mention if digital photography. The quality available then was obviously not sufficient for him. But the advice and "rules-of-thumb" for the speed/f No/ focal length compares to that given here. Except that he says that the shutter speed should be close to the focal length, egs 1/125th for 100mm, 1/250th for 300mm etc,  to reduce the effects of camera shake.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on August 08, 2018, 07:21:14 PM
That looks good, Dave. Are you a bit happier now? Was it shot and processed in RAW? If not, you should try it and then process in Lightroom. Then you will find that the Clarity and Dehaze sliders do wonders. The  beauty of the background blur (bokeh) is a feature of the lens design, and some lenses give more pleasing bokeh than others.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on August 08, 2018, 07:27:51 PM
Oh, I see now that it was the one you took with the old camera settings (I assume ISO 100). Are you going to try the settings I recommended earlier?
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on August 08, 2018, 07:45:04 PM
Oh, I see now that it was the one you took with the old camera settings (I assume ISO 100). Are you going to try the settings I recommended earlier?

Yup, that was taken on the Lumix at max zoom. I did use the cut down, free Android version of Lightroom to "clarify" and "dehaze" the second version.

I have never come accross "bokeh" before, thought you had mistyped "broken" until you repeated it!  :grin:  Another case of a foriegn word being used to replace a perfectly good English one but, I suppose, using "blur" in respect to the qualities of a photograph would needs qualifying so as not to be ambiguous.

Adobe also do a free app to "straighten" and clean up photographs taken of documents, removes minor keystoning and whitens the paper. But it only seems to save as a pdf so needs extra mucking about to produce an image.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Tank on August 08, 2018, 07:58:29 PM
This is a good example of bokeh. It was taken with my f2.8 100mm Minolta macro lens on slide and then scanned with a film scanner.

(https://imageshack.com/i/1cbugonflowerj)
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on August 08, 2018, 08:11:47 PM
Nice one, Tank.

It also demos the idea of what, at first, may look like an out of balance composition - then the contrast hits and it looks good. Having hardly an artistic gene in my cells I do tend towards "technical" compositions - main subject in the centre and explicit. Apart from my stint in Cyprus most of my photography has been at work or in archaeology. With big gaps.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on August 09, 2018, 01:32:04 AM
Here's an image from last night with the ISO set to 800, which is about what my camera could handle without losing all of the detail. The colors are off from what the scene actually looked like and there's a bit of camera shake from the slow shutter speed - it's interesting just how much the ferry moves the pier when it pulls in - but it was more an experiment with ISO than an attempt to take a photo of the truck or the ferry pulling in at night. I am working on getting the ferry as it pulls in but am having trouble with overexposure on the bright lights.

(https://s15.postimg.cc/81fn33ftn/Finished_Photos_ISO_testing_01.jpg)
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on August 09, 2018, 05:35:34 AM
This is a good example of bokeh. It was taken with my f2.8 100mm Minolta macro lens on slide and then scanned with a film scanner.

(https://imageshack.com/i/1cbugonflowerj)

To my eye this lens produces very pleasing bokeh. It can be a very subtle difference between different lenses and a matter of taste.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on August 09, 2018, 05:40:00 AM
Nice one, Tank.

It also demos the idea of what, at first, may look like an out of balance composition - then the contrast hits and it looks good. Having hardly an artistic gene in my cells I do tend towards "technical" compositions - main subject in the centre and explicit. Apart from my stint in Cyprus most of my photography has been at work or in archaeology. With big gaps.

Dave, I think Tank has by accident, or more probably by design, applied the almost infallible rule of thirds to his composition. In this case it works well.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Tank on August 09, 2018, 06:27:14 AM
Nice one, Tank.

It also demos the idea of what, at first, may look like an out of balance composition - then the contrast hits and it looks good. Having hardly an artistic gene in my cells I do tend towards "technical" compositions - main subject in the centre and explicit. Apart from my stint in Cyprus most of my photography has been at work or in archaeology. With big gaps.

Dave, I think Tank has by accident, or more probably by design, applied the almost infallible rule of thirds to his composition. In this case it works well.

:) I often use the rule of thirds (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_thirds).
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on August 09, 2018, 06:43:43 AM
Nice one, Tank.

It also demos the idea of what, at first, may look like an out of balance composition - then the contrast hits and it looks good. Having hardly an artistic gene in my cells I do tend towards "technical" compositions - main subject in the centre and explicit. Apart from my stint in Cyprus most of my photography has been at work or in archaeology. With big gaps.

Dave, I think Tank has by accident, or more probably by design, applied the almost infallible rule of thirds to his composition. In this case it works well.

:) I often use the rule of thirds (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_thirds).

I admit I do as well! Nothing to be ashamed of I suppose.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Tank on August 09, 2018, 07:36:00 AM
Nice one, Tank.

It also demos the idea of what, at first, may look like an out of balance composition - then the contrast hits and it looks good. Having hardly an artistic gene in my cells I do tend towards "technical" compositions - main subject in the centre and explicit. Apart from my stint in Cyprus most of my photography has been at work or in archaeology. With big gaps.

Dave, I think Tank has by accident, or more probably by design, applied the almost infallible rule of thirds to his composition. In this case it works well.

:) I often use the rule of thirds (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_thirds).

I admit I do as well! Nothing to be ashamed of I suppose.
Of course it isn't! We're standing on the shoulders of giants!
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on August 09, 2018, 07:53:44 AM
See, told you I was artistically inept! Heard of the "rule of thirds" but did not recognise it there! I recognise diagonals and "S" shapes though.

But when shooting I just, automatically, look for levelness and a clear view of a subject. In Cyprus (1963) I taught a colleague how to process film and printing. He had problems with that but, from his very first shot, he proved to have a far better "eye" than me. But then, he was Welsh and of an "artistic temperament", almost flambouyantly so with an excellent use of language!

OK, time to study and practice composition (again!). Start with some arranged still life possibly . . .
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Tank on August 09, 2018, 08:07:26 AM
Secondary effect of the aperture, depth of field control.

The primary effect of the aperture is exposure control. However it has a creative secondary effect. It can be used to control which part of the image is in focus in front of the lens in relation to the position on the lens. This zone of focus is known as the 'depth of field (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depth_of_field)'. It is sometimes called the 'depth of focus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depth_of_focus)' but that is something else that goes on behind the lens.

The aperture you use is dependent on the effect you want in your final image. If you want everything to be in focus from as close as possible to the horizon then you use a smaller aperture (f16, f22). If you want your subject to appear against an out of focus background you use a larger aperture (f1.4, f2, f2.8). 

To get the correct exposure you will have to adjust the shutter speed and/or ISO 'speed'.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Tank on August 09, 2018, 08:13:29 AM
See, told you I was artistically inept! Heard of the "rule of thirds" but did not recognise it there! I recognise diagonals and "S" shapes though.

But when shooting I just, automatically, look for levelness and a clear view of a subject. In Cyprus (1963) I taught a colleague how to process film and printing. He had problems with that but, from his very first shot, he proved to have a far better "eye" than me. But then, he was Welsh and of an "artistic temperament", almost flambouyantly so with an excellent use of language!

OK, time to study and practice composition (again!). Start with some arranged still life possibly . . .

My younger daughter took up photography, did a degree in media studies and specialised in still photography. She is now a medical photographer, not an easy job. But she has a wonderfully creative 'eye' way better than mine. She uses a professional Canon and turns off all the automation, including exposure control, no autofocus, no nothing! As she puts it, 'I'm taking the photo, not some technician in Japan!' There are times it's difficult to put into words just how proud of her I am :)
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on August 09, 2018, 08:19:52 AM
See, told you I was artistically inept! Heard of the "rule of thirds" but did not recognise it there! I recognise diagonals and "S" shapes though.

But when shooting I just, automatically, look for levelness and a clear view of a subject. In Cyprus (1963) I taught a colleague how to process film and printing. He had problems with that but, from his very first shot, he proved to have a far better "eye" than me. But then, he was Welsh and of an "artistic temperament", almost flambouyantly so with an excellent use of language!

OK, time to study and practice composition (again!). Start with some arranged still life possibly . . .

My younger daughter took up photography, did a degree in media studies and specialised in still photography. She is now a medical photographer, not an easy job. But she has a wonderfully creative 'eye' way better than mine. She uses a professional Canon and turns off all the automation, including exposure control, no autofocus, no nothing! As she puts it, 'I'm taking the photo, not some technician in Japan!' There are times it's difficult to put into words just how proud of her I am :)

And rightly so!
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on August 09, 2018, 08:46:07 AM
Lovely description of the "rule of thirds" from the Wiki, applies to Tank's picture well:

Quote
Two distinct, equal lights, should never appear in the same picture : One should be principal, and the rest subordinate, both in dimension and degree: Unequal parts and gradations lead the attention easily from part to part, while parts of equal appearance hold it awkwardly suspended, as if unable to determine which of those parts is to be considered as the subordinate. "And to give the utmost force and solidity to your work, some part of the picture should be as light, and some as dark as possible: These two extremes are then to be harmonized and reconciled to each other." (Reynolds' Annot. on Du Fresnoy.)

John Thomas Smith, in 1797, who coined the phrase.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on August 09, 2018, 09:07:53 AM
Composition and other rules are very useful and my opinion is that we should be aware of them, but once they are internalized, we should not be slaves to them. It is OK to break them or ignore them. It's the old "Picasso could not draw" philistine statement, whereas nothing is further from the truth. He just chose to throw out the rules when it suited him.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on August 09, 2018, 09:19:12 AM
Composition and other rules are very useful and my opinion is that we should be aware of them, but once they are internalized, we should not be slaves to them. It is OK to break them or ignore them. It's the old "Picasso could not draw" philistine statement, whereas nothing is further from the truth. He just chose to throw out the rules when it suited him.

I agree, Hermes, but that practice, practice, practice is boring necessary for those of us without that natural eye to "get the habit"!

And I do much agree with the idea of not stucking rigidly to rules. Though Picasso does nothing for me, Durer is one of my favourite artists, but he could be quite "technical" at times to my eye. I loved the art lectures from the Open University when they used to be on TV.

[Oh for a pleassnt discussion in a pleasant place, a couple of drinks and good company, paradise! (appologies to Omary Khayyam)]
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on August 09, 2018, 09:56:43 AM
Composition and other rules are very useful and my opinion is that we should be aware of them, but once they are internalized, we should not be slaves to them. It is OK to break them or ignore them. It's the old "Picasso could not draw" philistine statement, whereas nothing is further from the truth. He just chose to throw out the rules when it suited him.

I agree, Hermes, but that practice, practice, practice is boring necessary for those of us without that natural eye to "get the habit"!

And I do much agree with the idea of not stucking rigidly to rules. Though Picasso does nothing for me, Durer is one of my favourite artists, but he could be quite "technical" at times to my eye. I loved the art lectures from the Open University when they used to be on TV.

[Oh for a pleassnt discussion in a pleasant place, a couple of drinks and good company, paradise! (appologies to Omary Khayyam)]

Some very academic paintings by Picasso when he was a child:
(https://i.imgur.com/9s9huSw.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/2FRd5fX.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/MxWGdpY.jpg)

Sorry Tank, they don't really belong here.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Tank on August 09, 2018, 10:12:41 AM
Composition and other rules are very useful and my opinion is that we should be aware of them, but once they are internalized, we should not be slaves to them. It is OK to break them or ignore them. It's the old "Picasso could not draw" philistine statement, whereas nothing is further from the truth. He just chose to throw out the rules when it suited him.

Agreed. Being slavish to rules ruins spontaneity.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Tank on August 09, 2018, 02:40:05 PM
Hyperfocal distance (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperfocal_distance).

For any given aperture and lens combination there is what is known as a hyperfocal distance. This is the distance from the front of the lens that you focus on, respective of where the subject actually is. The farthest point of the depth of field will be at infinity (the horizon) and the nearest could be be a couple of meters in front of the lens while the lens is actually focused say 25m away. And everything from the horizon to 2m in front of you is in focus. This is how cheap little film cameras get away with not having a focusing mechanism. They have a wide angle lens with a small (f8) aperture lens with a focus set at the hyperfocal distance.

You can use the hyperfocal distance to good effect where you have moving subjects like a football match. Set the lenses focus so the distant part of the depth of field is the far side of the football pitch and then you don't have to touch the focus for the whole game.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on August 09, 2018, 03:27:47 PM
Hyperfocal distance (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperfocal_distance).

For any given aperture and lens combination there is what is known as a hyperfocal distance. This is the distance from the front of the lens that you focus on, respective of where the subject actually is. The farthest point of the depth of field will be at infinity (the horizon) and the nearest could be be a couple of meters in front of the lens while the lens is actually focused say 25m away. And everything from the horizon to 2m in front of you is in focus. This is how cheap little film cameras get away with not having a focusing mechanism. They have a wide angle lens with a small (f8) aperture lens with a focus set at the hyperfocal distance.

You can use the hyperfocal distance to good effect where you have moving subjects like a football match. Set the lenses focus so the distant part of the depth of field is the far side of the football pitch and then you don't have to touch the focus for the whole game.

Understand and have used the "focus and forget" principle, but thanks for given it a name, Tank - that's new to me.

In some time critical cases, like birds on a nest and trying to capture a specific behaviour, it maybe saves precious time: setting the focus manually will mean not having to wait until the auto focus allows the shutter to open.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on August 09, 2018, 04:21:55 PM
I own a circular polarizing filter, but have never used it. Have any of you guys had any experience with one?
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on August 09, 2018, 04:51:33 PM
I own a circular polarizing filter, but have never used it. Have any of you guys had any experience with one?

I usually leave mine on the Nikon all the time. It deepens blue sky if there is a little very thin cloud, improving sky/cloud contrast,  and tends to make greens greener. The "anti-reflection" qualities are good if you have highlights, even on shiny leaves, that are distracting - the ability to improve shots into water is well known.

But you have to remember to rotate it to get the best shot each time, you may want the highlights!

Take it out and play with it.

Er,  :redface:
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Tank on August 09, 2018, 05:38:19 PM
I own a circular polarizing filter, but have never used it. Have any of you guys had any experience with one?

Yes. I'll find some examples.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on August 09, 2018, 05:45:29 PM
Thanks, Dave and Tank. Perhaps I should try it some time.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Tank on August 09, 2018, 05:49:36 PM
Thanks, Dave and Tank. Perhaps I should try it some time.

It works best when the Sun is in line with your shoulders. It has next to no effect if the Sun is in front or behind you. Too many clouds and it won't work at all.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Bluenose on August 10, 2018, 11:50:10 AM
Back in the day, I used to have a Minolta XD-5 SLR (actually, I still have it here somewhere).  When I went on a Squadron run ashore, I used to fit a wide angle lens (28 mm from memory), adjusted the focus to about 2 ft to infinity with an aperture to f22 and tape the focus ring so it would not move and fitted a diffusion filter to my Sunpack flash, which was quite capable of giving me decent exposure at up to 20 ft away.  I could then enjoy my night out with my fellow officers, get as pissed as I liked and still got quite acceptable photographs of the proceedings.  My mates often commented that my photos were better than what they tried under the same circumstances - prior planning.

On a related note, I was photographic officer on my squadron.  We had Nikon SLRs with 80-210 mm zoom lenses (big, heavy old fashioned ones) for use by the front-seaters in the aircraft.  We were using Ilford FP4 100 ASA black and white film for reconnaissance photography.  The cameras had a "needle and ring" type of manual exposure control.  We were getting only about 15-20% usable photographs, mostly out of focus, but also badly exposed.  I decided to have a trial of using fixed settings to take the variation out when used by non-photographer aircrew (who really couldn't care less about f stop, exposure and focus etc).  I spoke to the phot section guys and they suggested a particular f stop and exposure (time prevents me from recalling exactly what) and I adjusted the lens to about 100 mm and set the focus to give a depth of field from about 100 ft to infinity.  Because FP4 is a very flexible film the phot guys could compensate for around 2 stops over or under exposure during processing with not too much loss of quality, or even more if needs be.  Effectively I had turned these very expensive cameras into point and shoot devices for nubes.  The results were about 80-85% usable photos, which I considered to be win!
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Tank on August 10, 2018, 12:08:37 PM
Back in the day, I used to have a Minolta XD-5 SLR (actually, I still have it here somewhere).  When I went on a Squadron run ashore, I used to fit a wide angle lens (28 mm from memory), adjusted the focus to about 2 ft to infinity with an aperture to f22 and tape the focus ring so it would not move and fitted a diffusion filter to my Sunpack flash, which was quite capable of giving me decent exposure at up to 20 ft away.  I could then enjoy my night out with my fellow officers, get as pissed as I liked and still got quite acceptable photographs of the proceedings.  My mates often commented that my photos were better than what they tried under the same circumstances - prior planning.

On a related note, I was photographic officer on my squadron.  We had Nikon SLRs with 80-210 mm zoom lenses (big, heavy old fashioned ones) for use by the front-seaters in the aircraft.  We were using Ilford FP4 100 ASA black and white film for reconnaissance photography.  The cameras had a "needle and ring" type of manual exposure control.  We were getting only about 15-20% usable photographs, mostly out of focus, but also badly exposed.  I decided to have a trial of using fixed settings to take the variation out when used by non-photographer aircrew (who really couldn't care less about f stop, exposure and focus etc).  I spoke to the phot section guys and they suggested a particular f stop and exposure (time prevents me from recalling exactly what) and I adjusted the lens to about 100 mm and set the focus to give a depth of field from about 100 ft to infinity.  Because FP4 is a very flexible film the phot guys could compensate for around 2 stops over or under exposure during processing with not too much loss of quality, or even more if needs be.  Effectively I had turned these very expensive cameras into point and shoot devices for nubes.  The results were about 80-85% usable photos, which I considered to be win!

What a waste of good kit  :'( :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on August 10, 2018, 12:22:01 PM
I sort of agree, Tank, but it's horses for courses. With objective being obtaining the best quality image you can achieve there's no point in using a Kodak Brownie.  :grin:

You might consider the fitted WW2 air recon cameras, with the best lenses that could be made at the time, "point and shoot" jobs!

On appeture and focus/d-o-f  with the old rings on the lens it was so easy to adjust the focus scale with focus infinity at the f No and be sure that everything from about 5ft forward would be in focus. Then, for general shots, you could adjust the speed at the eye if you had an internal exposure indicator.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on August 10, 2018, 01:22:03 PM
Those were the days, Dave. I spent many a lonely weekend hour in the darkroom of the Physical Chemistry department developing and printing. I used to be happy to produce just one good print per day.

I used a trick to extend the dynamic range of Tri-X film (which I really loved), by overexposing by 1 stop and then under-developing. To do that one set the camera meter at ASA 200, although Tri-X was rated at ASA 400. This overcame the old film problem of blow-out highlights, and gave negatives that weren't just pure black in the highlights and transparent in the shadows. The resulting prints showed good detail in the highlights as well as the shadows. Now with digital, the results are better if one underexposes to prevent blown highlights, and crank up the exposure in the shadows. This is most successful when you shoot RAW.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Tank on August 10, 2018, 02:41:15 PM
Those were the days, Dave. I spent many a lonely weekend hour in the darkroom of the Physical Chemistry department developing and printing. I used to be happy to produce just one good print per day.

I used a trick to extend the dynamic range of Tri-X film (which I really loved), by overexposing by 1 stop and then under-developing. To do that one set the camera meter at ASA 200, although Tri-X was rated at ASA 400. This overcame the old film problem of blow-out highlights, and gave negatives that weren't just pure black in the highlights and transparent in the shadows. The resulting prints showed good detail in the highlights as well as the shadows. Now with digital, the results are better if one underexposes to prevent blown highlights, and crank up the exposure in the shadows. This is most successful when you shoot RAW.

Interesting. I'll have to try that. You are rekindling my interest in RAW files.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on August 10, 2018, 02:53:48 PM
Those were the days, Dave. I spent many a lonely weekend hour in the darkroom of the Physical Chemistry department developing and printing. I used to be happy to produce just one good print per day.

I used a trick to extend the dynamic range of Tri-X film (which I really loved), by overexposing by 1 stop and then under-developing. To do that one set the camera meter at ASA 200, although Tri-X was rated at ASA 400. This overcame the old film problem of blow-out highlights, and gave negatives that weren't just pure black in the highlights and transparent in the shadows. The resulting prints showed good detail in the highlights as well as the shadows. Now with digital, the results are better if one underexposes to prevent blown highlights, and crank up the exposure in the shadows. This is most successful when you shoot RAW.

Interesting. I'll have to try that. You are rekindling my interest in RAW files.

Glad to hear my RAW proselytizing has had some effect.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on August 10, 2018, 02:57:18 PM
Of course, one can also do HDR processing, but it needs at least 3 shots, and the results can look very artificial.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Bluenose on August 11, 2018, 01:44:10 AM
Back in the day, I used to have a Minolta XD-5 SLR (actually, I still have it here somewhere).  When I went on a Squadron run ashore, I used to fit a wide angle lens (28 mm from memory), adjusted the focus to about 2 ft to infinity with an aperture to f22 and tape the focus ring so it would not move and fitted a diffusion filter to my Sunpack flash, which was quite capable of giving me decent exposure at up to 20 ft away.  I could then enjoy my night out with my fellow officers, get as pissed as I liked and still got quite acceptable photographs of the proceedings.  My mates often commented that my photos were better than what they tried under the same circumstances - prior planning.

On a related note, I was photographic officer on my squadron.  We had Nikon SLRs with 80-210 mm zoom lenses (big, heavy old fashioned ones) for use by the front-seaters in the aircraft.  We were using Ilford FP4 100 ASA black and white film for reconnaissance photography.  The cameras had a "needle and ring" type of manual exposure control.  We were getting only about 15-20% usable photographs, mostly out of focus, but also badly exposed.  I decided to have a trial of using fixed settings to take the variation out when used by non-photographer aircrew (who really couldn't care less about f stop, exposure and focus etc).  I spoke to the phot section guys and they suggested a particular f stop and exposure (time prevents me from recalling exactly what) and I adjusted the lens to about 100 mm and set the focus to give a depth of field from about 100 ft to infinity.  Because FP4 is a very flexible film the phot guys could compensate for around 2 stops over or under exposure during processing with not too much loss of quality, or even more if needs be.  Effectively I had turned these very expensive cameras into point and shoot devices for nubes.  The results were about 80-85% usable photos, which I considered to be win!

What a waste of good kit  :'( :'( :'( :'(

Well, I see your point, but in the case of my camera for the "happy snaps" it was just preparing for the event, knowing I was not going to be in a state to do a proper job. (What, me getting three sheets to the wind?  Whatever are you suggesting?  LOL)

With the recce photography the real issue was that the guys taking the photos were simply not that much interested in cameras and all the technical details.  I tried hard to get the Navy to buy us fixed focal length 100 mm lenses, which would have been much lighter and at the distance we did the photography was about the right size to give a fairly full frame image of the target ship.  Additionally the zoom lenses in those days were not really all that good optically so add the inherent vibration from shooting from the aircraft, the length and weight of the zoom lenses and the lack of skill of the guys actually taking the shots, I think my solution was for the best given the parameters we were operating under.  The end results were a vast improvement under the circumstances.  But yes, I always did see the irony of effectively turning good quality pofessional gear into "Kodak Instamatics".  :D
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Tank on August 11, 2018, 05:36:00 AM
Back in the day, I used to have a Minolta XD-5 SLR (actually, I still have it here somewhere).  When I went on a Squadron run ashore, I used to fit a wide angle lens (28 mm from memory), adjusted the focus to about 2 ft to infinity with an aperture to f22 and tape the focus ring so it would not move and fitted a diffusion filter to my Sunpack flash, which was quite capable of giving me decent exposure at up to 20 ft away.  I could then enjoy my night out with my fellow officers, get as pissed as I liked and still got quite acceptable photographs of the proceedings.  My mates often commented that my photos were better than what they tried under the same circumstances - prior planning.

On a related note, I was photographic officer on my squadron.  We had Nikon SLRs with 80-210 mm zoom lenses (big, heavy old fashioned ones) for use by the front-seaters in the aircraft.  We were using Ilford FP4 100 ASA black and white film for reconnaissance photography.  The cameras had a "needle and ring" type of manual exposure control.  We were getting only about 15-20% usable photographs, mostly out of focus, but also badly exposed.  I decided to have a trial of using fixed settings to take the variation out when used by non-photographer aircrew (who really couldn't care less about f stop, exposure and focus etc).  I spoke to the phot section guys and they suggested a particular f stop and exposure (time prevents me from recalling exactly what) and I adjusted the lens to about 100 mm and set the focus to give a depth of field from about 100 ft to infinity.  Because FP4 is a very flexible film the phot guys could compensate for around 2 stops over or under exposure during processing with not too much loss of quality, or even more if needs be.  Effectively I had turned these very expensive cameras into point and shoot devices for nubes.  The results were about 80-85% usable photos, which I considered to be win!

What a waste of good kit  :'( :'( :'( :'(

Well, I see your point, but in the case of my camera for the "happy snaps" it was just preparing for the event, knowing I was not going to be in a state to do a proper job. (What, me getting three sheets to the wind?  Whatever are you suggesting?  LOL)

With the recce photography the real issue was that the guys taking the photos were simply not that much interested in cameras and all the technical details.  I tried hard to get the Navy to buy us fixed focal length 100 mm lenses, which would have been much lighter and at the distance we did the photography was about the right size to give a fairly full frame image of the target ship.  Additionally the zoom lenses in those days were not really all that good optically so add the inherent vibration from shooting from the aircraft, the length and weight of the zoom lenses and the lack of skill of the guys actually taking the shots, I think my solution was for the best given the parameters we were operating under.  The end results were a vast improvement under the circumstances.  But yes, I always did see the irony of effectively turning good quality pofessional gear into "Kodak Instamatics".  :D

You solved the problem with what you had available to you, pragmatism of the first order.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on August 11, 2018, 11:27:27 AM
I want this toy.

Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on August 11, 2018, 11:50:47 AM
I want this toy.


Yeah!

But looking at their other prices it ain't gonna be a cheap toy. I can find loads of glowing reviews and, "...it went on sale earlier this year..." but not a single price!
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on August 11, 2018, 12:14:38 PM
Yeah!

But looking at their other prices it ain't gonna be a cheap toy. I can find loads of glowing reviews and, "...it went on sale earlier this year..." but not a single price!

You only live once and you're a well-heeled man about town.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on August 11, 2018, 12:36:51 PM
Yeah!

But looking at their other prices it ain't gonna be a cheap toy. I can find loads of glowing reviews and, "...it went on sale earlier this year..." but not a single price!

You only live once and you're a well-heeled man about town.

Yes, I could add it to my pile of expensive and rarely used toys.

Or I could do without and help a bunch of kids get better education, or even a meal.  Or maybe compromise with a tithe on toys.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Bluenose on August 12, 2018, 04:39:52 AM
On their Kickstart page they say it will be released in October this year with a retail price of $1,500USD.  I think I'll pass...
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on August 12, 2018, 06:38:40 AM
On their Kickstart page they say it will be released in October this year with a retail price of $1,500USD.  I think I'll pass...

As they price such things that will traslate to £1499-99 over here, no matter what the exchance rate.

Yeah, out of range of my toy budget as well.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Bluenose on August 12, 2018, 12:44:54 PM
On their Kickstart page they say it will be released in October this year with a retail price of $1,500USD.  I think I'll pass...

As they orice such things that will traslate to £1499-99 over here, no matter what the exchance rate.

Yeah, out of range of my toy budget as well.

Yes, but it would be cool toy, eh?  :)
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on August 13, 2018, 02:04:14 PM
Macro photography.

Playing with extension rings.

18-55mm kit lens:

(https://i.imgur.com/NuozaRg.jpg)

With 12mm ring:

(https://i.imgur.com/JY7a45E.jpg)

With 20mm ring:

(https://i.imgur.com/5IPm4lp.jpg)

With 36mm ring:

(https://i.imgur.com/gSQLUeL.jpg)

With all three rings:

(https://i.imgur.com/Gl4YO2I.jpg)

The kit and set-up. Of note are the bubble level and remote control. Latter especially needed! Extra especially with precarious and wobbly table!

(https://i.imgur.com/s3pL3jt.jpg)

There is also an 'L' bracket in there that gets the camera outside the tripod legs but increases the wobbliness. Lighting was with an LED torch. A tripod with a rack and handle to adjust the column would be nice.

Camera was on manual focus, that lens takes a lot of winding to get the full range, but that neans it is a "fine" control. Camera was left on P setting. The Nikon D5nnn range (probably the others as well) has the ability to magnify the image in the back screen whilst focussing but . . . You get "noise" over a certain amount of enlargement that makes it difficult to see the point where the image is sharpest. Wondering if the amount of light affects this.

Projects:
● Some sort of screw driven X-Y table with levelling screws (6mm studding screw pitch is 1mm, "star knobs" already on order for another job.)
● Ring of 12 LEDs, on their sides, pointing at the centre as a sandwich between two pieces of plastic (with lots of hot-melt adhesive!). Maybe with selection of ALL, HALF, EVERY OTHER ONE - and possibly brightness.

I have an LED "ring light" but that is not much good with the lens about a cm from the object, also, being mounted in front of the lens it restricts how close the lens can get.

(Note: must tidy up the bigger and steadier table.)
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on August 13, 2018, 02:38:25 PM
I learned something valuable this morning. Always, always, ALWAYS format the memory card immediately after putting it back in your camera. I'm going to have a hell of a time separating yesterday's photos from today's.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on August 13, 2018, 02:50:33 PM
I learned something valuable this morning. Always, always, ALWAYS format the memory card immediately after putting it back in your camera. I'm going to have a hell of a time separating yesterday's photos from today's.

If you put them up in file msnager/explorer and hover the pointer over them it should return the date taken (or last modified), the image info panel in most proprietary viewers does the same thing.

One day they will do an app for all cameras and phones where you can view and annotate the image info file via WIFI, NFC or Bluetooth. Well, can but hope. I have resorted to using the recorder in my smartphone before now.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on August 13, 2018, 03:19:00 PM
I learned something valuable this morning. Always, always, ALWAYS format the memory card immediately after putting it back in your camera. I'm going to have a hell of a time separating yesterday's photos from today's.

I use the free Multi Commander that has a left and right panel a as file manager.

http://multicommander.com/

It allows one to sort by date very easily.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on August 13, 2018, 03:21:09 PM
Macro photography.

Playing with extension rings.

18-55mm kit lens:

Those are nice tests. Did you have the lens on 18 or 55mm, or somewhere in between?
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on August 13, 2018, 03:24:51 PM
Macro photography.

Playing with extension rings.

18-55mm kit lens:

Those are nice tests. Did you have the lens on 18 or 55mm, or somewhere in between?

Oops, on 18mm.

There is no gain using a longer focal length from a greater distance, the opposite in fact.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Tank on August 13, 2018, 03:37:59 PM
I learned something valuable this morning. Always, always, ALWAYS format the memory card immediately after putting it back in your camera. I'm going to have a hell of a time separating yesterday's photos from today's.
What happened? I have never formatted a memory card except on the first time it goes in the camera. You should not need to do it.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on August 13, 2018, 04:19:13 PM
Macro photography.

Playing with extension rings.

18-55mm kit lens:

Those are nice tests. Did you have the lens on 18 or 55mm, or somewhere in between?

Actually, looking at them the focus is not sharp on one image, but I was looking for the field of view more than anything else.

Footling through the bits box I found a right angle prismatic viewer with x1 and x2 viewing that I bought when I was doing stuff for the archives.

More attention needs to be paid to focus for any "real" shots methinks!
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on August 13, 2018, 04:44:23 PM
I learned something valuable this morning. Always, always, ALWAYS format the memory card immediately after putting it back in your camera. I'm going to have a hell of a time separating yesterday's photos from today's.
What happened? I have never formatted a memory card except on the first time it goes in the camera. You should not need to do it.

My camera uses "format" in the menu to delete everything on the card. I don't think it really formats the card every time because it happens too fast.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Tank on August 13, 2018, 05:28:00 PM
I learned something valuable this morning. Always, always, ALWAYS format the memory card immediately after putting it back in your camera. I'm going to have a hell of a time separating yesterday's photos from today's.
What happened? I have never formatted a memory card except on the first time it goes in the camera. You should not need to do it.

My camera uses "format" in the menu to delete everything on the card. I don't think it really formats the card every time because it happens too fast.

In my experience you should be able to take your memory card out of your camera and return it without problem. What has caused issues is if I delete an image from the card while it's in the PC and then return the card to the camera. So now I only ever delete images on the card while it is in the camera.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on August 13, 2018, 05:39:28 PM
I learned something valuable this morning. Always, always, ALWAYS format the memory card immediately after putting it back in your camera. I'm going to have a hell of a time separating yesterday's photos from today's.
What happened? I have never formatted a memory card except on the first time it goes in the camera. You should not need to do it.

My camera uses "format" in the menu to delete everything on the card. I don't think it really formats the card every time because it happens too fast.

In my experience you should be able to take your memory card out of your camera and return it without problem. What has caused issues is if I delete an image from the card while it's in the PC and then return the card to the camera. So now I only ever delete images on the card while it is in the camera.

This is thevtoss-up between having ine big card (32GB+) and stuffing it or a few 8GB or less for the day out. The latter can make housekeeping simpler, finding an image faster etc. Sldo accidental deleting or formatting is not so critical.

There is that "Bigger must be better, I need more Giga Bytes. More, more!" I have a few 2GB SD cards and one 2GB stick that I am happy to post to people so they can put files too big to email on them for me.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on August 13, 2018, 05:59:40 PM
In my experience you should be able to take your memory card out of your camera and return it without problem. What has caused issues is if I delete an image from the card while it's in the PC and then return the card to the camera. So now I only ever delete images on the card while it is in the camera.

That's also been my experience. Also, never remove or insert an SD card with the camera on.

For very critical once-off shots I use the second SD card in the camera as a backup. Then all photos one takes are recorded onto both cards. This can save your life if the card in slot 1 dies or becomes corrupt.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on August 13, 2018, 06:00:53 PM
I think it was a brilliant idea to start this thread. Thank you, Tank.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on August 13, 2018, 06:25:21 PM
I think it was a brilliant idea to start this thread. Thank you, Tank.
I will second that!  :thumbsup2:

Still wondering about collating it all together coherently There are loads of books covering all kinds of things photographic but they are often over complex and full if unexplained jargon.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Tank on August 13, 2018, 06:58:36 PM
I think it was a brilliant idea to start this thread. Thank you, Tank.

Well it definitely appears popular. :)
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Tank on August 13, 2018, 06:59:39 PM
I think it was a brilliant idea to start this thread. Thank you, Tank.
I will second that!  :thumbsup2:

Still wondering about collating it all together coherently There are loads of books covering all kinds of things photographic but they are often over complex and full if unexplained jargon.

Hence my little jargon buster section in the OP.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on August 13, 2018, 07:01:20 PM
I think it was a brilliant idea to start this thread. Thank you, Tank.

Well it definitely appears popular. :)

Well, with four of us anyway!
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Tank on August 13, 2018, 07:27:21 PM
I think it was a brilliant idea to start this thread. Thank you, Tank.

Well it definitely appears popular. :)

Well, with four of us anyway!

Oh I'm sure others read and new members might have an interest.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on August 14, 2018, 02:18:15 AM
Well, it doesn't really matter that the photos are all jumbled up because my experiment with the maximum f-stop was a miserable failure. Turns out, f/40 isn't very good for taking clear photos...
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on August 14, 2018, 05:39:44 AM
Well, it doesn't really matter that the photos are all jumbled up because my experiment with the maximum f-stop was a miserable failure. Turns out, f/40 isn't very good for taking clear photos...

One can learn a lot from failed experiments, so please give us more details and we will all chip in with some suggestions. My motives are a bit selfish; I hope to learn from your experiments as well.

By f/40, I assume you mean f/4? It is possible to take clear photos at all f stops, so it was probably just a focusing problem. The wider the f-stop, the smaller the depth of field, so precise focusing becomes critically important.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on August 14, 2018, 10:40:02 AM
I have just found a weird one.

Using the wide angle front lens on my 18-140mm lens with the camera set to P it refuses to focus using the viewfinder but is happy to do so using "live view" and the back screen!

On "intelligent" setting and auto flash it is quite happy with the viewfinder. This is the setting I used in my workshop picture.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on August 14, 2018, 10:57:45 AM
I have just found a weird one.

Using the wide angle front lens on my 18-140mm lens with the camera set to P it refuses to focus using the viewfinder but is happy to do so using "live view" and the back screen!

On "intelligent" setting and auto flash it is quite happy with the viewfinder. This is the setting I used in my workshop picture.

 :wtf:
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on August 14, 2018, 11:52:59 AM
I have just found a weird one.

Using the wide angle front lens on my 18-140mm lens with the camera set to P it refuses to focus using the viewfinder but is happy to do so using "live view" and the back screen!

On "intelligent" setting and auto flash it is quite happy with the viewfinder. This is the setting I used in my workshop picture.

 :wtf:

Sorry, I got it slightly wrong - in the first case it focusses in the viewfinder but refuses to trigger the shutter. Using "live view" it takes the shot.

Hmm, I will try putting it on auto flash on the P setting, hang on . . .  Nope, only wants to work on live view. This is OK for what I wanted to do, flash might have attracted to much attention in a public space. (Seems we are not supposed to take pictures in the malls in town.)

But it is weird! Electronically the camera does not know the w/a is there; practically it focusses but gives a small red central square and a red, sort of, bracket round the central third of the f-o-v in the viewfinder when the shutter release is fully pressed.

Setting the metering to full screen the red bits, though lots of little squares now, still appear but it takes the shot. It was a high contrast, sunny window in the centre, light shadows around. Need to play more.

Reckon its a dodgy algorithm!

Oh, noticed that there might be film/coating separation starting on the front lens of that cheapo w/a lens. Little bubbles like you see with badly applied protective films on phones. It does not seem to be a protective film here. No obvious sign of it degrading the image so far.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Bad Penny II on August 14, 2018, 11:59:21 AM
I think my cheap waterproof Nikon makes lots of folders, haven't used it for a while.
You can do a *.jpg or whatever file extension search, then drag them into a folder on your computer in one go.  The name the camera gives the pics probably runs in order, otherwise just order by date.  This is in File/windows explorer.

Canon uses one folder (for pics at least).  I just drag them into a windows folder and then delete them from camera in windows.  No problems so far and I have taken a lot.

I don't often format for Canon but my Nikon got an increasingly messy file structure so I did.

Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on August 14, 2018, 12:16:26 PM
I think my cheap waterproof Nikon makes lots of folders, haven't used it for a while.
You can do a *.jpg or whatever file extension search, then drag them into a folder on your computer in one go.  The name the camera gives the pics probably runs in order, otherwise just order by date.  This is in File/windows explorer.

Canon uses one folder (for pics at least).  I just drag them into a windows folder and then delete them from camera in windows.  No problems so far and I have taken a lot.

I don't often format for Canon but my Nikon got an increasingly messy file structure so I did.

I set up a default GEN(eral) folder in my Nikon, then special folders for special tasks.

But I have to remember to fight through the menu system to make sure I get the right one for the next job. There is a programmable "fn" button but folder change is not an option on that.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on August 14, 2018, 12:30:09 PM
Well, it doesn't really matter that the photos are all jumbled up because my experiment with the maximum f-stop was a miserable failure. Turns out, f/40 isn't very good for taking clear photos...

One can learn a lot from failed experiments, so please give us more details and we will all chip in with some suggestions. My motives are a bit selfish; I hope to learn from your experiments as well.

By f/40, I assume you mean f/4? It is possible to take clear photos at all f stops, so it was probably just a focusing problem. The wider the f-stop, the smaller the depth of field, so precise focusing becomes critically important.

No, the aperture was set to f/40! Shutter speed was 1/2 a second which I think was where my problem arose. Of the ospreys are out this morning I'll crank it down to f/22 and gradually ruse from there. My experiment was with the hyperfocal distance focusing. From what I had been reading the higher the f-stop the better so I went really, really high!
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on August 14, 2018, 12:32:13 PM
I have just found a weird one.

Using the wide angle front lens on my 18-140mm lens with the camera set to P it refuses to focus using the viewfinder but is happy to do so using "live view" and the back screen!

On "intelligent" setting and auto flash it is quite happy with the viewfinder. This is the setting I used in my workshop picture.

 :wtf:

Sorry, I got it slightly wrong - in the first case it focusses in the viewfinder but refuses to trigger the shutter. Using "live view" it takes the shot.

Hmm, I will try putting it on auto flash on the P setting, hang on . . .  Nope, only wants to work on live view. This is OK for what I wanted to do, flash might have attracted to much attention in a public space. (Seems we are not supposed to take pictures in the malls in town.)

But it is weird! Electronically the camera does not know the w/a is there; practically it focusses but gives a small red central square and a red, sort of, bracket round the central third of the f-o-v in the viewfinder when the shutter release is fully pressed.

Setting the metering to full screen the red bits, though lots of little squares now, still appear but it takes the shot. It was a high contrast, sunny window in the centre, light shadows around. Need to play more.

Reckon its a dodgy algorithm!

Oh, noticed that there might be film/coating separation starting on the front lens of that cheapo w/a lens. Little bubbles like you see with badly applied protective films on phones. It does not seem to be a protective film here. No obvious sign of it degrading the image so far.

Is the camera set on AF-S or AF-C? If on AF-S, try it with AF-C.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on August 14, 2018, 12:36:39 PM
Well, it doesn't really matter that the photos are all jumbled up because my experiment with the maximum f-stop was a miserable failure. Turns out, f/40 isn't very good for taking clear photos...

One can learn a lot from failed experiments, so please give us more details and we will all chip in with some suggestions. My motives are a bit selfish; I hope to learn from your experiments as well.

By f/40, I assume you mean f/4? It is possible to take clear photos at all f stops, so it was probably just a focusing problem. The wider the f-stop, the smaller the depth of field, so precise focusing becomes critically important.

No, the aperture was set to f/40! Shutter speed was 1/2 a second which I think was where my problem arose. Of the ospreys are out this morning I'll crank it down to f/22 and gradually ruse from there. My experiment was with the hyperfocal distance focusing. From what I had been reading the higher the f-stop the better so I went really, really high!

Wow, none of my lenses has a stop smaller than f22. F40 is really very small. Which lens is that?
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on August 14, 2018, 02:00:03 PM
I have just found a weird one.

Using the wide angle front lens on my 18-140mm lens with the camera set to P it refuses to focus using the viewfinder but is happy to do so using "live view" and the back screen!

On "intelligent" setting and auto flash it is quite happy with the viewfinder. This is the setting I used in my workshop picture.

 :wtf:

Sorry, I got it slightly wrong - in the first case it focusses in the viewfinder but refuses to trigger the shutter. Using "live view" it takes the shot.

Hmm, I will try putting it on auto flash on the P setting, hang on . . .  Nope, only wants to work on live view. This is OK for what I wanted to do, flash might have attracted to much attention in a public space. (Seems we are not supposed to take pictures in the malls in town.)

But it is weird! Electronically the camera does not know the w/a is there; practically it focusses but gives a small red central square and a red, sort of, bracket round the central third of the f-o-v in the viewfinder when the shutter release is fully pressed.

Setting the metering to full screen the red bits, though lots of little squares now, still appear but it takes the shot. It was a high contrast, sunny window in the centre, light shadows around. Need to play more.

Reckon its a dodgy algorithm!

Oh, noticed that there might be film/coating separation starting on the front lens of that cheapo w/a lens. Little bubbles like you see with badly applied protective films on phones. It does not seem to be a protective film here. No obvious sign of it degrading the image so far.

Is the camera set on AF-S or AF-C? If on AF-S, try it with AF-C.

Good point. So many bloody bells and whistles I keep forgetting the notes!

Tried setting it up as I had done for those macro shots - with the lens pointing down the friction on the zoom is not enough to prevent the extra weight  extending it fully under gravity and it is difficult to wind back up without pushing as well!
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on August 14, 2018, 08:44:08 PM
Well, my Nikkor 50mm f1.8 has arrived, was fitted and played with within minutes!

I tried it with that w/a front lens, but that seems to do weird things with the focus. Works close up but cannot get the other end of the room in focus, needs playing with in daylight first.

Here is a picture of a cutting mat using that combo, with cm squares, shows a bit of barrel distortion, not unexpected:

(https://i.imgur.com/PAlN2FU.jpg)

Just noticed there is also a bit of lateral "spreading"; there are five x cm squares divided by thicker lines, but the two thin lines at the sides are "thickened".

Looks like the fish eye effect needs the shorter focal length. Ain't gonna buy an 18mm or a 25mm to see though, will use the bottom end of the 18-140mm! The ring and the viewfinder display cannot agree what the f-stop is, despite its contacts the lens does not feed back to the proccessor it seems. Looks like full manual mode might be required for flash, but I have no distance/f-stop data for the built in flashgun. Even more playing needed . . .
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on August 14, 2018, 09:26:14 PM
Well, it doesn't really matter that the photos are all jumbled up because my experiment with the maximum f-stop was a miserable failure. Turns out, f/40 isn't very good for taking clear photos...

One can learn a lot from failed experiments, so please give us more details and we will all chip in with some suggestions. My motives are a bit selfish; I hope to learn from your experiments as well.

By f/40, I assume you mean f/4? It is possible to take clear photos at all f stops, so it was probably just a focusing problem. The wider the f-stop, the smaller the depth of field, so precise focusing becomes critically important.

No, the aperture was set to f/40! Shutter speed was 1/2 a second which I think was where my problem arose. Of the ospreys are out this morning I'll crank it down to f/22 and gradually ruse from there. My experiment was with the hyperfocal distance focusing. From what I had been reading the higher the f-stop the better so I went really, really high!

Wow, none of my lenses has a stop smaller than f22. F40 is really very small. Which lens is that?

This one:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00005Y3OM?psc=1&ref=yo_pop_mb_pd_title
 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00005Y3OM?psc=1&ref=yo_pop_mb_pd_title)

But I'm thinking that the "limited compatibility" this lens has with my camera might be doing some wonky stuff. And there's supposed to be a dial or something to manually adjust the aperture that I can't find now that I'm looking for it! Could be a bad description.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on August 14, 2018, 09:59:18 PM
Well, it doesn't really matter that the photos are all jumbled up because my experiment with the maximum f-stop was a miserable failure. Turns out, f/40 isn't very good for taking clear photos...

One can learn a lot from failed experiments, so please give us more details and we will all chip in with some suggestions. My motives are a bit selfish; I hope to learn from your experiments as well.

By f/40, I assume you mean f/4? It is possible to take clear photos at all f stops, so it was probably just a focusing problem. The wider the f-stop, the smaller the depth of field, so precise focusing becomes critically important.

No, the aperture was set to f/40! Shutter speed was 1/2 a second which I think was where my problem arose. Of the ospreys are out this morning I'll crank it down to f/22 and gradually ruse from there. My experiment was with the hyperfocal distance focusing. From what I had been reading the higher the f-stop the better so I went really, really high!

Wow, none of my lenses has a stop smaller than f22. F40 is really very small. Which lens is that?

This one:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00005Y3OM?psc=1&ref=yo_pop_mb_pd_title
 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00005Y3OM?psc=1&ref=yo_pop_mb_pd_title)

But I'm thinking that the "limited compatibility" this lens has with my camera might be doing some wonky stuff. And there's supposed to be a dial or something to manually adjust the aperture that I can't find now that I'm looking for it! Could be a bad description.

Yeah, f45 min apperture! But no image stabilisation?

Which model do you have again? On my D5300 I select "A," hit the "info" button, use the "navigation" wheel to select the apperture dudplay then the thumbwheel (top right) to change that. The speed compensates automatically. "M"  allows you to change both and a scale at the bottom tells you how close you are to a viable combination so far as the lighting is concerned. Then you only have to choose between speed of subject and depth of field.

"Only"! Hah! That is the "art" bit!

Later

Here's another, quicker, wsy - I have learned something!


But that man's voice ! ! !

Pressing and holding the other top button allows speed adjustment on M in the same way.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Bluenose on August 14, 2018, 11:01:56 PM

But that man's voice ! ! !


 :o Made me want to stick my head in a gas oven!
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on August 15, 2018, 06:06:22 AM
Well, it doesn't really matter that the photos are all jumbled up because my experiment with the maximum f-stop was a miserable failure. Turns out, f/40 isn't very good for taking clear photos...

One can learn a lot from failed experiments, so please give us more details and we will all chip in with some suggestions. My motives are a bit selfish; I hope to learn from your experiments as well.

By f/40, I assume you mean f/4? It is possible to take clear photos at all f stops, so it was probably just a focusing problem. The wider the f-stop, the smaller the depth of field, so precise focusing becomes critically important.

No, the aperture was set to f/40! Shutter speed was 1/2 a second which I think was where my problem arose. Of the ospreys are out this morning I'll crank it down to f/22 and gradually ruse from there. My experiment was with the hyperfocal distance focusing. From what I had been reading the higher the f-stop the better so I went really, really high!

Wow, none of my lenses has a stop smaller than f22. F40 is really very small. Which lens is that?

This one:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00005Y3OM?psc=1&ref=yo_pop_mb_pd_title
 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00005Y3OM?psc=1&ref=yo_pop_mb_pd_title)

But I'm thinking that the "limited compatibility" this lens has with my camera might be doing some wonky stuff. And there's supposed to be a dial or something to manually adjust the aperture that I can't find now that I'm looking for it! Could be a bad description.

That's odd, because according to Nikon, the minimum aperture is f/32.

https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-products/product/camera-lenses/af-zoom-nikkor-70-300mm-f%252f4-5.6g.html#tab-ProductDetail-ProductTabs-TechSpecs

If the camera shows f/40, then there must be some incompatibility problem.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on August 15, 2018, 06:11:45 AM

But that man's voice ! ! !


 :o Made me want to stick my head in a gas oven!

Only a mother could love that voice.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on August 15, 2018, 07:55:34 AM
Hermes said:
Quote
That's odd, because according to Nikon, the minimum aperture is f/32.

https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-products/product/camera-lenses/af-zoom-nikkor-70-300mm-f%252f4-5.6g.html#tab-ProductDetail-ProductTabs-TechSpecs

If the camera shows f/40, then there must be some incompatibility problem.

Hmm, I found  a spec for a .Nikkor 70-300mm  that gave f45 as the min, but no  inage stab.

But there is a VR model the quotes f32-40 for the zoom range:

https://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/lens/zoom/telephotozoom/af-s_vr_zoom70-300mmf_45-56g_if/index.htm

I have noticed there are various Nikkor models at the same focal length
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on August 15, 2018, 08:42:36 AM
Hermes said:
Quote
That's odd, because according to Nikon, the minimum aperture is f/32.

https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-products/product/camera-lenses/af-zoom-nikkor-70-300mm-f%252f4-5.6g.html#tab-ProductDetail-ProductTabs-TechSpecs

If the camera shows f/40, then there must be some incompatibility problem.

Hmm, I found  a spec for a .Nikkor 70-300mm  that gave f45 as the min, but no  inage stab.

But there is a VR model the quotes f32-40 for the zoom range:

https://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/lens/zoom/telephotozoom/af-s_vr_zoom70-300mmf_45-56g_if/index.htm

I have noticed there are various Nikkor models at the same focal length

The naming of the lenses is confusing, so perhaps it is this one. I think the problem is that at such a small aperture the camera had to use a very slow shuttter speed to get correct exposure, leading to a blurry photo. Even VR is not able to compensate at very slow speeds, especially at long focal lengths.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on August 15, 2018, 09:36:47 AM
Hermes said:
Quote
That's odd, because according to Nikon, the minimum aperture is f/32.

https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-products/product/camera-lenses/af-zoom-nikkor-70-300mm-f%252f4-5.6g.html#tab-ProductDetail-ProductTabs-TechSpecs

If the camera shows f/40, then there must be some incompatibility problem.

Hmm, I found  a spec for a .Nikkor 70-300mm  that gave f45 as the min, but no  inage stab.

But there is a VR model the quotes f32-40 for the zoom range:

https://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/lens/zoom/telephotozoom/af-s_vr_zoom70-300mmf_45-56g_if/index.htm

I have noticed there are various Nikkor models at the same focal length

The naming of the lenses is confusing, so perhaps it is this one. I think the problem is that at such a small aperture the camera had to use a very slow shuttter speed to get correct exposure, leading to a blurry photo. Even VR is not able to compensate at very slow speeds, especially at long focal lengths.

My thinking as well, hence my remark about picking the right combination of speed and app for the subject being part of the technical art of photography. Can be a difficult choice at times.

I have a model B Box Brownie (with box and manual), wonder if you can still get 120 film . . . Gotta be easier!
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on August 15, 2018, 09:44:05 AM
Hermes said:
Quote
That's odd, because according to Nikon, the minimum aperture is f/32.

https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-products/product/camera-lenses/af-zoom-nikkor-70-300mm-f%252f4-5.6g.html#tab-ProductDetail-ProductTabs-TechSpecs

If the camera shows f/40, then there must be some incompatibility problem.

Hmm, I found  a spec for a .Nikkor 70-300mm  that gave f45 as the min, but no  inage stab.

But there is a VR model the quotes f32-40 for the zoom range:

https://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/lens/zoom/telephotozoom/af-s_vr_zoom70-300mmf_45-56g_if/index.htm

I have noticed there are various Nikkor models at the same focal length

The naming of the lenses is confusing, so perhaps it is this one. I think the problem is that at such a small aperture the camera had to use a very slow shuttter speed to get correct exposure, leading to a blurry photo. Even VR is not able to compensate at very slow speeds, especially at long focal lengths.

My thinking as well, hence my remark about picking the right combination of speed and app for the subject being part of the technical art of photography. Can be a difficult choice at times.

I have a model K Box Brownie, wonder if you can still get 120 film . . . Gotta be easier!

Ooh I love those decadent brownies!

I think we should look at the EXIF data to see what the shutter speed was.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Tank on August 15, 2018, 09:56:31 AM
Image quality

If you want the best optical image quality as a rule of thumb one should not shoot at the largest nor smallest aperture of a lens. The ends of a lenses aperture range are almost always a technical compromise the get the largest and smallest usable apertures. The optical 'sweet spot' is usually a couple of stops down or up from the ends of the lens's range. But that is just for optical quality and takes no account of the necessity for depth-of-field or the avoidance of camera shake.

A small aperture, f16 or smaller, can be subject to reduced optical quality from diffraction (https://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/diffraction-photography.htm).
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on August 15, 2018, 09:59:56 AM
I mis-remembered the model, it's a B, with "Group" "Landscape" and "Portrait" lenses and f-stops from f11 - f22. Even instructions for processing Kodak Panatomic-X film and a table for Wratten filter factors in the box.

I want the World's Fair and the Beau models, but both very, very rare. And very, very expensive of course.

Also have an Ensign Ful-Vue - love the art deco shape!

(https://i.imgur.com/XW7odIV.jpg)
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on August 15, 2018, 10:56:15 AM
Focusing off or pre-focusing:

There is probably a technical term for it but . . .

Say you want a picture of your dog bounding towards you in the park. Pressing the shutter release starts the AF but it takes a period of time to get there - by which time said pooch has arrived and is looking for the next game.

So, pick the spot where you want the dog to be and focus, half pressing the release, on the grass at that spot, or a bush or whatever at the same distance and KEEP THE BUTTON HALF PRESSED.

Then compose your shot, tell the other to release the hound, fully press when the dig is at the spot and bingo. I would also go for continuous release mode and press just before - one of them is bound to have floppy ears a-flying if poochy has such appendages.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on August 15, 2018, 03:18:11 PM
Playing with extension rings and a telephoto lens.

The flower image is 30mm in diameter and the whole image is in the centre of an A4 sheet.

18-140mm lens set on 140mm + 36mm ring:

Furthest focus point at 660mm

(https://i.imgur.com/tgDQ3eL.jpg)

Nearest focus point at 35mm

(https://i.imgur.com/KDTuxSp.jpg)

I did not worry too much about lighting, tweaked a bit in Light Room, more interested in image size in the frame.

Not a bad range for such shots, flying beasties might be intimidated by the camera at 35mm but at 100mm, say, still a decent sized image.

Distance set at 100mm:

(https://i.imgur.com/aR9EmFr.jpg)
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on August 15, 2018, 04:55:22 PM
That's looking very promising. How does a 36mm extension compromise the maximum aperture of the lens? Not that you would want to shoot at the maximum anyway.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on August 15, 2018, 05:00:10 PM
Focusing off or pre-focusing:

There is probably a technical term for it but . . .

Say you want a picture of your dog bounding towards you in the park. Pressing the shutter release starts the AF but it takes a period of time to get there - by which time said pooch has arrived and is looking for the next game.

So, pick the spot where you want the dog to be and focus, half pressing the release, on the grass at that spot, or a bush or whatever at the same distance and KEEP THE BUTTON HALF PRESSED.

Then compose your shot, tell the other to release the hound, fully press when the dig is at the spot and bingo. I would also go for continuous release mode and press just before - one of them is bound to have floppy ears a-flying if poochy has such appendages.

I figured out that I can do a half press with the auto focus and then switch to manual to keep the focus in the range I set. I don't know if your lenses have that option but it works well on the kit lens that came with my camera.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on August 15, 2018, 05:19:48 PM
Focusing off or pre-focusing:

There is probably a technical term for it but . . .

Say you want a picture of your dog bounding towards you in the park. Pressing the shutter release starts the AF but it takes a period of time to get there - by which time said pooch has arrived and is looking for the next game.

So, pick the spot where you want the dog to be and focus, half pressing the release, on the grass at that spot, or a bush or whatever at the same distance and KEEP THE BUTTON HALF PRESSED.

Then compose your shot, tell the other to release the hound, fully press when the dig is at the spot and bingo. I would also go for continuous release mode and press just before - one of them is bound to have floppy ears a-flying if poochy has such appendages.

I figured out that I can do a half press with the auto focus and then switch to manual to keep the focus in the range I set. I don't know if your lenses have that option but it works well on the kit lens that came with my camera.

That's a new one on me, JJ, have to be a bit dextrous to achieve that! But it makes sense and manual focusing can be a bit tricky in the viewfinder, that would get round the problem.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on August 15, 2018, 05:26:57 PM
Focusing off or pre-focusing:

There is probably a technical term for it but . . .

Say you want a picture of your dog bounding towards you in the park. Pressing the shutter release starts the AF but it takes a period of time to get there - by which time said pooch has arrived and is looking for the next game.

So, pick the spot where you want the dog to be and focus, half pressing the release, on the grass at that spot, or a bush or whatever at the same distance and KEEP THE BUTTON HALF PRESSED.

Then compose your shot, tell the other to release the hound, fully press when the dig is at the spot and bingo. I would also go for continuous release mode and press just before - one of them is bound to have floppy ears a-flying if poochy has such appendages.

I figured out that I can do a half press with the auto focus and then switch to manual to keep the focus in the range I set. I don't know if your lenses have that option but it works well on the kit lens that came with my camera.

No need to switch to manual: just keep it half-pressed after focusing and then move the camera to compose the shot. It will keep the focus.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on August 15, 2018, 05:45:25 PM
Focusing off or pre-focusing:

There is probably a technical term for it but . . .

Say you want a picture of your dog bounding towards you in the park. Pressing the shutter release starts the AF but it takes a period of time to get there - by which time said pooch has arrived and is looking for the next game.

So, pick the spot where you want the dog to be and focus, half pressing the release, on the grass at that spot, or a bush or whatever at the same distance and KEEP THE BUTTON HALF PRESSED.

Then compose your shot, tell the other to release the hound, fully press when the dig is at the spot and bingo. I would also go for continuous release mode and press just before - one of them is bound to have floppy ears a-flying if poochy has such appendages.

I figured out that I can do a half press with the auto focus and then switch to manual to keep the focus in the range I set. I don't know if your lenses have that option but it works well on the kit lens that came with my camera.

No need to switch to manual: just keep it half-pressed after focusing and then move the camera to compose the shot. It will keep the focus.

I think there are still possible applications for JJ's trick in some cases of "still life" and tripod use. Worth remembering IMHO.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on August 15, 2018, 05:47:19 PM
That's looking very promising. How does a 36mm extension compromise the maximum aperture of the lens? Not that you would want to shoot at the maximum anyway.

There was no table of f-stop alteration with these rings, but I am sure that I have seen one somewhere. Will dig in my box of manuals and data sheets sometime. It will probably date back to ny 35mm days though! I would rather not keep swapping the lenses too much, wear on contacts etc.

Also need some way of setting up a constant light source, the ring light is too bright to test the more open end of the f range and with the lens close to the object. I do not have enough neutral density filters in that size.

Hmm, maybe the laptop screen or a backlit sheet of paper - difficult to avoid shadows when the lens is close to the object.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on August 15, 2018, 05:52:36 PM
That's looking very promising. How does a 36mm extension compromise the maximum aperture of the lens? Not that you would want to shoot at the maximum anyway.

There was no table of f-stop alteration with these rings, but I am sure that I have seen one somewhere. Will dig in my box of manuals and data sheets sometime. It will probably date back to ny 35mm days though! I would rather not keep swapping the lenses too much, wear on contacts etc.

Also need some way of setting up a constant light source, the ring light is too bright to test the more open end of the f range and with the lens close to the object. I do not have enough neutral density filters in that size.

Hmm, maybe the laptop screen or a backlit sheet of paper - difficult to avoid shadows when the lens is close to the object.

Perhaps you could rig up a barn door type of flood light to get the correct brightness.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on August 15, 2018, 06:14:45 PM
That's looking very promising. How does a 36mm extension compromise the maximum aperture of the lens? Not that you would want to shoot at the maximum anyway.

There was no table of f-stop alteration with these rings, but I am sure that I have seen one somewhere. Will dig in my box of manuals and data sheets sometime. It will probably date back to ny 35mm days though! I would rather not keep swapping the lenses too much, wear on contacts etc.

Also need some way of setting up a constant light source, the ring light is too bright to test the more open end of the f range and with the lens close to the object. I do not have enough neutral density filters in that size.

Hmm, maybe the laptop screen or a backlit sheet of paper - difficult to avoid shadows when the lens is close to the object.

Perhaps you could rig up a barn door type of flood light to get the correct brightness.
Hmm, no barn door type lights! I think the backlit sheet, using a reading light, will be my first attempt. As I took those pics they got darker as the lens appproached the obect, a effect that was far worse with the ruler pics where the lens was a whole lot closer. There I had to use a torch shining sideways into the gap!

For just light/f-stop measurement I will adjust the manual apperture, at a set speed, until the exposure indicator scale, in the info display, is at zero in each case. Full screen metering seems indicated.

This is partly in prep for using a sheet, backlit with a UV LED array, all set up on a tripod or two as a moth attractor. There though I will be using flash to get the action frozen. That close the smallest f-stop will be employed I think! Need to make a moth to get the set-up and method right!
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on August 16, 2018, 02:36:14 AM
No need to switch to manual: just keep it half-pressed after focusing and then move the camera to compose the shot. It will keep the focus.

Here's a situation where I think the switch to manual focus makes a lot of sense:

(https://s8.postimg.cc/y8y25zvmt/light_painting.jpg)

This was taken with a shutter speed of thirty seconds using a remote and a flashlight to highlight the tree over the course of the exposure. Using the flashlight to focus the camera on the tree in such low light uses a half press. Being able to trigger the camera from a bit of distance with the camera rock solid on an undisturbed tripod lends more stability and gives a bit more time to light the tree from both sides. While I could have set the focus using a half press, on the off chance that something were to fly into the image with the auto-focus activated - like a bat or bug - I might have wasted several shots before realizing that the camera had decided to focus somewhere besides the tree. This would be more of a problem without a remote but I can't see any downside to the habit for this sort of photo.

It's not a perfect example and I know that there are workarounds but having the focus locked gave me a bit more peace of mind while I was hobbling about with the flashlight. On a side note, I wish I had taken this a little earlier when the sun was casting a bit more light on the horizon. I also need to find a better light for this kind of work. I took possession of a Maglite 6D today for the warmer color temperature but it doesn't focus quite as tightly as I would like. It's quite difficult to find a LED flashlight that doesn't use a very cool colored bulb to increase its lumen output. The bluer tints don't work well at all.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on August 16, 2018, 04:16:30 AM
Good technique and nice picture, JJ.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on August 16, 2018, 04:33:22 AM
Good technique and nice picture, JJ.

My technique for this type of shot still needs quite a bit of work and I really don't think it's a very good picture. I was having trouble finding the right balance between the thirty second exposure and an aperture that didn't make it look like daylight. Plus, the timing was off by about twenty minutes on the setup.

It's only my third attempt so far though and I was a bit worn down from an afternoon of heavy weed eating. After reading Hermes' comment I wanted to get something out to show where locking the focus might be advantageous.

I'm still looking for the perfect flashlight too... at least, one that isn't several hundred dollars! The color temperature of the 6D is almost perfect but the beam focusing is rather crude. There is basically a flood mode and a partial flood mode. Perhaps that's just a necessary compromise when using an incandescent bulb. I have to do more research.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on August 16, 2018, 04:49:59 AM
Good technique and nice picture, JJ.

My technique for this type of shot still needs quite a bit of work and I really don't think it's a very good picture. I was having trouble finding the right balance between the thirty second exposure and an aperture that didn't make it look like daylight. Plus, the timing was off by about twenty minutes on the setup.

It's only my third attempt so far though and I was a bit worn down from an afternoon of heavy weed eating. After reading Hermes' comment I wanted to get something out to show where locking the focus might be advantageous.

I'm still looking for the perfect flashlight too... at least, one that isn't several hundred dollars! The color temperature of the 6D is almost perfect but the beam focusing is rather crude. There is basically a flood mode and a partial flood mode. Perhaps that's just a necessary compromise when using an incandescent bulb. I have to do more research.

That is a technique I've never tried and think I should some time. Your result looks very interesting. In this case you are of course right about the focus. My comment was really about general, day to day photos when you want to take a shot quickly.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on August 16, 2018, 05:08:53 AM
Good technique and nice picture, JJ.

My technique for this type of shot still needs quite a bit of work and I really don't think it's a very good picture. I was having trouble finding the right balance between the thirty second exposure and an aperture that didn't make it look like daylight. Plus, the timing was off by about twenty minutes on the setup.

It's only my third attempt so far though and I was a bit worn down from an afternoon of heavy weed eating. After reading Hermes' comment I wanted to get something out to show where locking the focus might be advantageous.

I'm still looking for the perfect flashlight too... at least, one that isn't several hundred dollars! The color temperature of the 6D is almost perfect but the beam focusing is rather crude. There is basically a flood mode and a partial flood mode. Perhaps that's just a necessary compromise when using an incandescent bulb. I have to do more research.

One is rarely fully satisfied with one's own work. The feeling of the need to improve your technique does not surprise me,
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on August 16, 2018, 05:41:42 AM
One is rsrely fully sstisfied with one's own work. The feeling of the need to improve your technique does not surprise me,

You are so right. The worst time is in the morning, when I look at the previous day's work and see how terrible it is.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Bad Penny II on August 16, 2018, 02:00:27 PM
Here's a situation where I think the switch to manual focus makes a lot of sense:

(https://s8.postimg.cc/y8y25zvmt/light_painting.jpg)

I like that.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Tank on August 22, 2018, 12:10:05 PM
The effect of a circular polariser.



Without
(https://imageshack.com/a/img924/5494/ua63K7.jpg)


With (rotated through 90°)
(https://imageshack.com/a/img924/7712/Q8bE0W.jpg)

The effect is subjective and dependent on what you want to achieve. One may want the reflections to highlight how shiny the car is. Or you may wish to accentuate the actual colour of the paintwork.

NOTE: There are things called linear polarisers. They should not be used with a camera with an auto focus system as it stops the auto focus system from working.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Bluenose on August 22, 2018, 01:43:54 PM
The effect of a circular polariser.



Without
(https://imageshack.com/a/img924/5494/ua63K7.jpg)


With (rotated through 90°)
(https://imageshack.com/a/img924/7712/Q8bE0W.jpg)

The effect is subjective and dependent on what you want to achieve. One may want the reflections to highlight how shiny the car is. Or you may wish to accentuate the actual colour of the paintwork.

NOTE: There are things called linear polarisers. They should not be used with a camera with an auto focus system as it stops the auto focus system from working.

Who cares about the polarising filter?  I want the car!  LOL

Actually, I once had a drive of a mate's light-weight V-12 E-Type.  Smooooth, putting your foot down was like pushing the throttle all the way forward in a jet.  And yes, I have done that, around the same time too...

Now, where were we?  Oh yes, circular polarising filters.  Hmmm, might have to get me one.  Always had a linear polarising filter to use on my Minolta SLR, I think I might like one of these on my Canon SLR.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Bad Penny II on August 22, 2018, 02:15:29 PM
The effect of a circular polariser.



Without
(https://imageshack.com/a/img924/5494/ua63K7.jpg)


With (rotated through 90°)
(https://imageshack.com/a/img924/7712/Q8bE0W.jpg)

The effect is subjective and dependent on what you want to achieve. One may want the reflections to highlight how shiny the car is. Or you may wish to accentuate the actual colour of the paintwork.

NOTE: There are things called linear polarisers. They should not be used with a camera with an auto focus system as it stops the auto focus system from working.

Who cares about the polarising filter?  I want the car!  LOL

Actually, I once had a drive of a mate's light-weight V-12 E-Type.  Smooooth, putting your foot down was like pushing the throttle all the way forward in a jet.  And yes, I have done that, around the same time too...

Now, where were we? 

Wanking
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on August 22, 2018, 03:17:26 PM
The effect is quite dramatic. I think I also detect a slight improvement in contrast of the cars parked under the trees.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on August 22, 2018, 03:36:42 PM
Hey, it makes men in white hats invisible as well!

Oh, he moved between shots - OK . . .
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on August 26, 2018, 03:06:05 PM
I've set a challenge for myself. I can take a very clear photo of the moon, that's quite easy. What I want though is a photo of the moon and the clouds it's illuminating. The clouds are proving tricky even without the moon being an overexposed blob in the middle.

Taking the moon out of the frame leaves things either too dark or too "smeared" depending on the shutter speed. I'll keep working on it though I do know I'll have to stitch two photos together to get what I want. If I could work out the clouds I think I'd be alright.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on August 26, 2018, 03:32:16 PM
I've set a challenge for myself. I can take a very clear photo of the moon, that's quite easy. What I want though is a photo of the moon and the clouds it's illuminating. The clouds are proving tricky even without the moon being an overexposed blob in the middle.

Taking the moon out of the frame leaves things either too dark or too "smeared" depending on the shutter speed. I'll keep working on it though I do know I'll have to stitch two photos together to get what I want. If I could work out the clouds I think I'd be alright.

Damn clouds will keep moving and changing shape!
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on August 26, 2018, 03:32:36 PM
I've set a challenge for myself. I can take a very clear photo of the moon, that's quite easy. What I want though is a photo of the moon and the clouds it's illuminating. The clouds are proving tricky even without the moon being an overexposed blob in the middle.

Taking the moon out of the frame leaves things either too dark or too "smeared" depending on the shutter speed. I'll keep working on it though I do know I'll have to stitch two photos together to get what I want. If I could work out the clouds I think I'd be alright.

You could try to take series of 3 shots: one to expose the moon properly, one 2 stops below that, and one 2 stops overexposed. Then blend them to create an HDR photo. I don't know whether your software can do that. If not, download an evaluation copy of Photomatix from

https://www.hdrsoft.com/

It is considered to be one of the best tools to create HDRs.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on September 05, 2018, 04:28:02 PM
I am playing with a cheapo (£20ish) bellows unit. Gonna take some playing!

But they  all seem to have the same, in my mind, design fault. The camera stays put and the lens trundles back and forth on the rack. As you can see in the image (wish I had more room to set things up) this means the rack always pokes out front, limiting what you can take pictures of. It limits how close you can get the front of the lens to most subjects.

(https://i.imgur.com/cprJbZj.jpg)

It's made worse here because I am also using a focussing rack which sticks out even further! But I could reverse that if it were a bit beefier.

If the lens mount end was fixed wrt the tripod mount (with the tripod mount moved to the optimal balance point) and the rack wound the camera back and forth it would need a bit more metal but mean you could get close up and personal even at minimum extension.

Tried taking pictures of a dandelion seed head but crashed into it too many tine. Need a flat subject to practice, with a bit more detail than that seed head - full extension shots were mainly of a tiny part of one fibre. Also very hard to light and focus, expanding screen image degrades the image in other ways, ended up using a 10x loupe, reversed, on the screen itself! But every tiny camera tremor is an earthquake at the subject. Too ambitious for a starter.

If the lens looks a little droopy that is because I forgot to tighten the clamp screw! This is a cheapo unit just for playing!

I also thought, at one point, that I had buggered the camera. I was using an extension lead and accidentally put it into the "bulb" mode, locking the shutter open and killing all controls!
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on September 05, 2018, 04:36:21 PM
Dave, that looks like an interesting setup. I've read of those, but never used one. Silly question, but would it not be possible to interchange the fittings and mount the camera at the current lens end?
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on September 05, 2018, 05:11:36 PM
Dave, that looks like an interesting setup. I've read of those, but never used one. Silly question, but would it not be possible to interchange the fittings and mount the camera at the current lens end?

First thing I looked at! The lens mount bayonet socket plate is a screwed on item but the male bayonet to the camera is cast with the tripod mount. Was hoping it was screw-on both ends :(

Thought I had a bayonet gender bender and screw on plate but can only find half of a lens reversing set, no good.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on September 05, 2018, 05:26:21 PM
That's too bad. I know one can buy a ring adapter to reverse-mount a a lens on the camera body. Would one of those help?
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on September 05, 2018, 05:44:27 PM
That's too bad. I know one can buy a ring adapter to reverse-mount a a lens on the camera body. Would one of those help?

Don't think so, it would need male/male and female/female adapters to swap the genders at each end.

Did look to see if I could mod the fucussing slide to do the job. The answer is yes, if only I had access to a mill.

Will try tomorrow with the other lenses to see if they give decent macro focus off the end of the rack. I have to pack everything away each time I change the function of this little room. Can't safely use the computer with tripods and stuff in that corner and the table has an infra-red switch electronics project on it (awaiting parts delivery). As well as some photographic bits. Can spend half a day just setting up again. Need a play room.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on September 05, 2018, 05:58:57 PM
That's too bad. I know one can buy a ring adapter to reverse-mount a a lens on the camera body. Would one of those help?

Don't think so, it would need male/male and female/female adapters to swap the genders at each end.

Did look to see if I could mod the fucussing slide to do the job. The answer is yes, if only I had access to a mill.

Will try tomorrow with the other lenses to see if they give decent macro focus off the end of the rack. I have to pack everything away each time I change the function of this little room. Can't safely use the computer with tripods and stuff in that corner and the table has an infra-red switch electronics project on it (awaiting parts delivery). As well as some photographic bits. Can spend half a day just setting up again. Need a play room.

I get tired just hearing about the contortions you have to go through. But, I suspect you actually enjoy these technical travails you get yourself into.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on September 05, 2018, 05:59:34 PM
You might not have a mill but I bet you could do it with a file.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on September 05, 2018, 06:10:08 PM
That's too bad. I know one can buy a ring adapter to reverse-mount a a lens on the camera body. Would one of those help?

Don't think so, it would need male/male and female/female adapters to swap the genders at each end.

Did look to see if I could mod the fucussing slide to do the job. The answer is yes, if only I had access to a mill.

Will try tomorrow with the other lenses to see if they give decent macro focus off the end of the rack. I have to pack everything away each time I change the function of this little room. Can't safely use the computer with tripods and stuff in that corner and the table has an infra-red switch electronics project on it (awaiting parts delivery). As well as some photographic bits. Can spend half a day just setting up again. Need a play room.

I get tired just hearing about the contortions you have to go through. But, I suspect you actually enjoy these technical travails you get yourself into.

As I have intimated before - I thrive on solving technical problems! Just hate having to tidy everything away part way through a job.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on September 05, 2018, 06:28:31 PM
You might not have a mill but I bet you could do it with a file.

You forgot the obligatory, ."..and a big hammer."

Hmm, in this case precision is required that I no longer have the ability to achieve with my 3" clamp on vice, on a wobbly D&D Workmate, and a file. Eyes hands and back no longer up to it. Also the drill stand has a 2mm wobble, it was 4mm but I reduced that with some beercan shims!. Can't quite see how to eliminate it entirely.

Given a mill and some matetial I could make my own design. Though, since all bellows, from <£20 - £400, follow the same pattern I wonder if there is not a resdon for it. Most images with lenses fitted show  much larger lenses than the 50mm job I was trying. Ideslly, in my mjnd, it should eork wrll with any lense. But, it would not be the first time I have literally "turned a problem on its head" to see both solutions others have missed. And I feel sure you have similar experiences, JJ!
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on September 05, 2018, 06:50:40 PM
I'd be willing to bet that the exporters of those bellows are all copying each other's crappy designs. It's surprisingly common. You can buy 1-2-3 blocks from dozens, if not hundreds, of different manufacturers in China but... none of them work! They all seem to tap the holes the wrong size and they can't be bolted together. So you have a precisely sized block with odd threaded holes that serve minimal purpose.

Why people continue buying them is a mystery to me. Complacency maybe? It's probably the same story with your bellows.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on September 05, 2018, 07:21:48 PM
This design looks better, in that both side can be adjusted.

(https://i.imgur.com/39P7sFb.jpg)

https://www.nikonimgsupport.com/ni/NI_article?articleNo=000002378&configured=1&lang=en_US
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on September 05, 2018, 07:22:21 PM
I'd be willing to bet that the exporters of those bellows are all copying each other's crappy designs. It's surprisingly common. You can buy 1-2-3 blocks from dozens, if not hundreds, of different manufacturers in China but... none of them work! They all seem to tap the holes the wrong size and they can't be bolted together. So you have a precisely sized block with odd threaded holes that serve minimal purpose.

Why people continue buying them is a mystery to me. Complacency maybe? It's probably the same story with your bellows.

Well, shen I were but a nipper someone gave me a very old, wooden 1/4 plate bellows camera (wish I still had it!). It was the same basic layout, magazine at the back with tripod mount, rack sticking a foot out in front of it with the lens on the carriage. The layout has not changed since the 19th century.

I found an old photo shop owner/photographer/processer (his eyes lit up when he saw the camera) who loaded the magazine with glass plates for me and processed them at a shilling a shot (nearly half my allowance of 2s 6d a week). It was great for for taking photomicrographs with my little microscope! Great pictures of hair roots and spider legs etc!
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on September 05, 2018, 07:29:53 PM
This design looks better, in that both side can be adjusted.

(https://i.imgur.com/39P7sFb.jpg)

https://www.nikonimgsupport.com/ni/NI_article?articleNo=000002378&configured=1&lang=en_US

Much better design, as one would expect from Nikon!

New price seems to be about £350, one refurbished PB-6 at £250.

Hmm, there are some 2nd hand ones on Ebay . . .

Actually the PB-6 is quite different, square rail and a central tripod mount with it own adjustment. So it has a focussing slide combined. But it is from Germany and the price plus carriage goes way over my budget. Nothing available from the UK.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on September 05, 2018, 07:31:36 PM
Wow, I didn't even look at the price (my old problem).
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on September 05, 2018, 07:32:31 PM
Wow, I didn't even look at the price (my old problem).
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on September 05, 2018, 07:33:26 PM
Okay, now that we have the technical details sorted, what's it for?
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on September 05, 2018, 07:34:33 PM
Sorry about the echo.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on September 05, 2018, 07:38:51 PM
Sorry about the echo.

It's a big, empty room. Happens.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on September 05, 2018, 07:39:43 PM
Sorry about the echo.

It's a big, empty room. Happens.

No, it's my head.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on September 07, 2018, 06:00:18 PM
Of course, once you have bought a bellows you need another thing that gives you control over the iris in any automatic lens youbuse - or just settle for that lens' minimum f stop and a long exposure or lots of lighting.

For the Nikon lenses tgst little doodad is znother £70.

I am trying to find the little bar graph in the Info menu, the one that tells you how close you are to correct exposure on the Manual setting. Can't find the bugger!

With static subjects you can take several shots bracketing the optimal exposure. More of a problem with moving subjects. Photogrsphy beyond the snapshot can be expensive!

My "ringflash" would be ideal but it does not connect to the camera's processor via the hotshoe - thus it does not shorten the flash according to the reflected light from the subject- takes several shots to find the right settings, limiting the light by limiting the speed.

Ho, hum . . .

Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on September 07, 2018, 07:21:52 PM
Of course, once you have bought a bellows you need another thing that gives you control over the iris in any automatic lens youbuse - or just settle for that lens' minimum f stop and a long exposure or lots of lighting.

For the Nikon lenses tgst little doodad is znother £70.

I am trying to find the little bar graph in the Info menu, the one that tells you how close you are to correct exposure on the Manual setting. Can't find the bugger!

With static subjects you can take several shots bracketing the optimal exposure. More of a problem with moving subjects. Photogrsphy beyond the snapshot can be expensive!

My "ringflash" would be ideal but it does not connect to the camera's processor via the hotshoe - thus it does not shorten the flash according to the reflected light from the subject- takes several shots to find the right settings, limiting the light by limiting the speed.

Ho, hum . . .

Sorry. my camera is a different model (D600) and I've never done manual exposure, so can't suggest where to find the exposure bar.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on September 07, 2018, 08:01:57 PM
Of course, once you have bought a bellows you need another thing that gives you control over the iris in any automatic lens youbuse - or just settle for that lens' minimum f stop and a long exposure or lots of lighting.

For the Nikon lenses tgst little doodad is znother £70.

I am trying to find the little bar graph in the Info menu, the one that tells you how close you are to correct exposure on the Manual setting. Can't find the bugger!

With static subjects you can take several shots bracketing the optimal exposure. More of a problem with moving subjects. Photogrsphy beyond the snapshot can be expensive!

My "ringflash" would be ideal but it does not connect to the camera's processor via the hotshoe - thus it does not shorten the flash according to the reflected light from the subject- takes several shots to find the right settings, limiting the light by limiting the speed.

Ho, hum . . .

Sorry. my camera is a different model (D600) and I've never done manual exposure, so can't suggest where to find the exposure bar.

I was using it not so long ago but can't remember which mode and settings I was using. Not enough time to play at the moment but will get round to it one day. There are so many possible permutations of settings spread over multiple menus and modes. I remember a time when it was so much simpler, just point and push the little lever down . . .

And I run out of mental and physical stamina too quickly!
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on September 07, 2018, 10:08:15 PM
Nearly 10pm and I have worked out how the iris is operated, realised that the adapter I thought would do the job does not and they do not actually make one that does allow manual iris control - despite the fact such would not be difficult and a real boon. Found a few people asking how it can be done and all sorts of ideas, including hacking the bayonet plates of an couple of short extension rings and wiring them together, one at each end of the bellows! That's a skein of 8 wires.

Looking at the smallest extension ring. All it needs is a little external lever fitted to move the internal lever that moves the iris lever to achieve manual control. Whilst keeping the whole thing 100% light proof of course. Hmm, maybe an external screw adjuster rather than a lever, easier to lightproof a screw thread . . .



PS
Oh yes they do do the right bit, took a bit of searching, found one on Ebay for about half price, used but in box with instructions. Now in need of an old fashioned cable release to use it  . . ,
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on September 11, 2018, 11:03:09 AM
Well, my 2ndH but mint condition Nikon BR-6 adapter srrived - but it was not quite what I thought.

It has a bayonet female on one side to fit the lens, and there is a little lever to operate the iris (which is now fully open by default) but the other side is a 52mm female filter thread, won't fit the bellows.   :violin:

:thinking:

Rummage in photographic odds and ends box.

 :thumbsup2:

Found: Nikon bayonet to 52mm  male filter thread, the perfect partner! Also means I can reverse fit the lenses, with apperture control, directly on to the camera at least.

However, Nikon, in their wisdom, have designed the BR-6 to require a lockable, old fashioned, mechanical cable release to hold the iris open at the desired setting. Not so easy to come by. The local shop has one, dusty one left in stock at £20. Found a very short one in the bits box but not lockable, hmmm, will think about that . . .
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on September 11, 2018, 11:23:05 AM
Well, my 2ndH but mint condition Nikon BR-6 adapter srrived - but it was not quite what I thought.

It has a bayonet female on one side to fit the lens, and there is a little lever to operate the iris (which is now fully open by default) but the other side is a 52mm female filter thread, won't fit the bellows.   :violin:

:thinking:

Rummage in photographic odds and ends box.

 :thumbsup2:

Found: Nikon bayonet to 52mm  male filter thread, the perfect partner! Also means I can reverse fit the lenses, with apperture control, directly on to the camera at least.

However, Nikon, in their wisdom, have designed the BR-6 to require a lockable, old fashioned, mechanical cable release to hold the iris open at the desired setting. Not so easy to come by. The local shop has one, dusty one left in stock at £20. Found a very short one in the bits box but not lockable, hmmm, will think about that . . .

Good luck, Dave. I would love to contribute something useful, but my brain is empty right now.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on September 11, 2018, 12:08:44 PM
How about a jig with a set screw that acts on the lever?
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on September 11, 2018, 12:22:21 PM
How about a jig with a set screw that acts on the lever?

Not practical I'm afraid.

Thinking more along something that fits to the little cable I have that, via an M4 cap head screw, pushes on the plunger. That gives apperture control over the whole range. No idea what the apperture will be between f5.6 and f22 though! If Ican find the lightmeter display function on the screen that does not matter.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on September 11, 2018, 12:59:19 PM
Dave, perhaps you should rather control the camera via its USB cable, instead of using a mechanical cable release. I control my Nikon from my desktop PC with an excellent free program called digiCamControl, but I don't think there is an Android version.

http://www.digicamcontrol.com/

You could try DSLR Remote Control for Android, but I have never used it, so don't know how good it is.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.pa.dslrremotecontrol
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on September 11, 2018, 01:12:00 PM
I found another Android camera control app that may work for you:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.rupiapps.cameraconnectcast
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on September 11, 2018, 04:53:17 PM
Dave, perhaps you should rather control the camera via its USB cable, instead of using a mechanical cable release. I control my Nikon from my desktop PC with an excellent free program called digiCamControl, but I don't think there is an Android version.

http://www.digicamcontrol.com/

You could try DSLR Remote Control for Android, but I have never used it, so don't know how good it is.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.pa.dslrremotecontrol

It is a case of operating the iris on an automatic lense that has no actual control connection with the camera - the non-auto bellows are between them. The motor actuating the iris is actually in the camera and moves a little lever poking out of the bayonet end of the lense. The BR-6 adapter fits to the bayonet of the lens and the lever/cable socket on that moves the iris lever on the lens.

The lens defaults to f22 normally, which is great for depth of field but is lousy for composition or fast shots without loads of light (that can get into the possibly 10mm or less gap between the lens and the subject.)  With the BR-6 adaptor fitted it starts with the iris wide open and moving the lever/cable stops it down, but it springs back open without some kind of locking mechanism. But there is no scale so the "light meter" display is useful, otherwise its guesswork and test shots.

I have not yet needed to investigate the USB or WIFI functions; I use an electronic, cabled, remote shutter release. My Lumix has NFC that enables me to stick it on a tripod in a garden, looking at a bird feeder, say, and see its view and control the zoom and shutter via my smartphone, independant of any WIFI router. Later models, like the D5600, have NFC I think.

Yours is a more "professional" level job, Hermes, may have functions the "hobby" jobs don't.

But will look at those links out of interest, thanks.

A project for lighting through narrow gaps, a ring or strips of LEDs, all pointing to the centre with brightness control, is under consideration. The LED 'ringflash' I have is actually too  bright on the lowest setting for ultra close-up.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on September 11, 2018, 05:44:39 PM
Yes, sorry, I forgot that the lens was not on the camera body in your setup. But anyway, the software control may be of interest to you in future.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on September 11, 2018, 06:16:47 PM
Yes, sorry, I forgot that the lens was not on the camera body in your setup. But anyway, the software control may be of interest to you in future.

Yes, have managed to get the Nikon WIFI program working but it only gives live view, no apparent conttol of speed etc. Oh, just remembered the camera is on M, maybe that makes a difference. Connection is a bit tortuous with Android, ended up having to switch the router off-on, the normal button method did not work.

NFC can be just as fiddly but superior in that it works anywhere with the devices in range - about the same range as Bluetooth I think - with some control over the camera functions.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on September 11, 2018, 06:29:01 PM
I use digiCamControl for focus stacking. It also has a motion trigger function that takes a shot whenever movement is detected, but I haven't used that.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on September 11, 2018, 06:48:55 PM
I use digiCamControl for focus stacking. It also has a motion trigger function that takes a shot whenever movement is detected, but I haven't used that.

I haven't got round to stoking ip the PC yet - spent most of the day on it reformatting half my friend's book. Her use of word processing is rudimentary . . .

That job is going to cost her a posh dinner out somewhere!
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on September 12, 2018, 10:26:27 AM
Thinking about my idea tgst the camera should be on the bellows carriage with the lens at the end I took another look at the unit . . . Ah!

This is what it looked like, camera bayonet on fixed end, lens on carriage:

(https://i.imgur.com/fzHo5cv.jpg)

This is what it looks like now, camera bayonet on carriage:

(https://i.imgur.com/OTVqgBi.jpg)

And all set up:

(https://i.imgur.com/Lea0EsP.jpg)

Luckily both the mount fixings were the same in terms of size and attachment and I was able to reverse the carriage. Seems mechanically no weaker, though I have plans to beef it slightly, and it actually balances better on the tripod now.

Simple, ennit!?

Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on September 12, 2018, 10:32:23 AM
Well, that is excellent. Strangely enough, your solution actually came to mind just after your first post, but I thought you must have considered it and rejected it for some mechanical reason. I'm happy that this simple solution worked.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on September 12, 2018, 10:44:19 AM
Well, that is excellent. Strangely enough, your solution actually came to mind just after your first post, but I thought you must have considered it and rejected it for some mechanical reason. I'm happy that this simple solution worked.

Great minds thing alike, eh, Hermes?

I had the advantage of having the thing in my hands but was looking too much at the overall picture and not the detail. The solution actually came whilst brushing my teeth. Bathrooms are often places of inspiration as well as evacuation and ablution! Archemedes found that . . .
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on September 12, 2018, 10:53:15 AM
Well, that is excellent. Strangely enough, your solution actually came to mind just after your first post, but I thought you must have considered it and rejected it for some mechanical reason. I'm happy that this simple solution worked.

Great minds thing alike, eh, Hermes?

I had the advantage of having the thing in my hands but was looking too much at the overall picture and not the detail. The solution actually came whilst brushing my teeth. Bathrooms are often places of inspiration as well as evacuation and ablution! Archemedes found that . . .

Does the "foot" on the camera carriage not prevent you from getting to the minimum bellows extension? In the original orientation full use of the track length was not possible. With the new orientation you can extend further, but the minimum is longer than before. Does that make sense?
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on September 12, 2018, 11:24:53 AM
Well, that is excellent. Strangely enough, your solution actually came to mind just after your first post, but I thought you must have considered it and rejected it for some mechanical reason. I'm happy that this simple solution worked.

Great minds thing alike, eh, Hermes?

I had the advantage of having the thing in my hands but was looking too much at the overall picture and not the detail. The solution actually came whilst brushing my teeth. Bathrooms are often places of inspiration as well as evacuation and ablution! Archemedes found that . . .

Does the "foot" on the camera carriage not prevent you from getting to the minimum bellows extension? In the original orientation full use of the track length was not possible. With the new orientation you can extend further, but the minimum is longer than before. Does that make sense?

Yes, there is about 6mm less bellows compression with the carriage reversed, but I don't think that will be critical in terms of % image size. Maybe refucing the lens-subject distance will compensate. I am not too bothered and would tend rowards extension tubes rather than the bellows in that range.

Have you seen the new Nikon 45.7Mp Z series mirrorless camera?

https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-products/mirrorless-cameras/overview.page

Only £3 400+

Cheaper 24.5Mp version (but faster frame rate) at a mere £2 100+!
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on September 12, 2018, 11:34:40 AM
Well, that is excellent. Strangely enough, your solution actually came to mind just after your first post, but I thought you must have considered it and rejected it for some mechanical reason. I'm happy that this simple solution worked.

Great minds thing alike, eh, Hermes?

I had the advantage of having the thing in my hands but was looking too much at the overall picture and not the detail. The solution actually came whilst brushing my teeth. Bathrooms are often places of inspiration as well as evacuation and ablution! Archemedes found that . . .

Does the "foot" on the camera carriage not prevent you from getting to the minimum bellows extension? In the original orientation full use of the track length was not possible. With the new orientation you can extend further, but the minimum is longer than before. Does that make sense?

Yes, there is about 6mm less bellows compression with the carriage reversed, but I don't think that will be critical in terms of % image size. Maybe refuding the lens-subject distance will compensate. I am not too bothered and would tend rowards extension tubes rather than the bellows in that range.

Have you seen the new Nikon 45.7Mp Z series mirrorless camera?

https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-products/mirrorless-cameras/overview.page

Only £3 400+

Cheaper 24.5Mp version (but faster frame rate) at a mere £2 100+!

Yes, I've been following it with interest, but at this point the interest is only academic. My D600 is still quite good enough for my needs. It has 24.3Mp and almost all the features I want in a camera.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on September 12, 2018, 11:50:06 AM
Well, that is excellent. Strangely enough, your solution actually came to mind just after your first post, but I thought you must have considered it and rejected it for some mechanical reason. I'm happy that this simple solution worked.

Great minds thing alike, eh, Hermes?

I had the advantage of having the thing in my hands but was looking too much at the overall picture and not the detail. The solution actually came whilst brushing my teeth. Bathrooms are often places of inspiration as well as evacuation and ablution! Archemedes found that . . .

Does the "foot" on the camera carriage not prevent you from getting to the minimum bellows extension? In the original orientation full use of the track length was not possible. With the new orientation you can extend further, but the minimum is longer than before. Does that make sense?

Yes, there is about 6mm less bellows compression with the carriage reversed, but I don't think that will be critical in terms of % image size. Maybe refuding the lens-subject distance will compensate. I am not too bothered and would tend rowards extension tubes rather than the bellows in that range.

Have you seen the new Nikon 45.7Mp Z series mirrorless camera?

https://www.nikonusa.com/en/nikon-products/mirrorless-cameras/overview.page

Only £3 400+

Cheaper 24.5Mp version (but faster frame rate) at a mere £2 100+!

Yes, I've been following it with interest, but at this point the interest is only academic. My D600 is still quite good enough for my needs. It has 24.3Mp and almost all the features I want in a camera.

Same here! But mirrorless seemed such an obvious path. The mirror is an SLR archaism from the 35mm days when there were no electronic viewfinders. All my digital compacts have been mirrorless . . .
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on September 12, 2018, 02:36:43 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/cJEsxiO.jpg)

Getting there! The green thing is an X-Y 'milling' table that is just about OK for drilling and milling balsa wood to + - 0.5mm, but it was cheap and makes an excelent micro positioning table for this purpose.

Next part of project is a base board with mounting positions for the table, bit like that other board I made, and something to attach the tripod column to it very stably. At the moment there are too many wobbly bits! Or, maybe, a structure made to take the pan/tilt head and raise and lower it with a length of 10mm studding, a Merton nut/bushes and a windy handle . . . Even an electric motor . . . Possibly controlled by a BBC Micro-bit or an Arduino . . . With limit switches . . .

This is where I have to substitute wood for metal, got a big sheet of 8mm ply, a jig saw, router, big bottle of PVA wood adhesive and lots of long 6mm and 8mm bolts! Might at least do a series of photos for this one if not a film. Probably operating the remote control with my teeth when both hands are in use . . . Or I could make a foot switch box to take it . . .

Later: so much wobble that merely holding that little release cable, to get better dof, gives a very blurry image. Also something to rotate the object is needed. Haven't got a big enough cog/worm drive/rack in my bits box.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on September 12, 2018, 04:40:44 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/cJEsxiO.jpg)

Getting there! The green thing is an X-Y 'milling' table that is just about OK for drilling and milling balsa wood to + - 0.5mm, but it was cheap and makes an excelent micro positioning table for this purpose.

Next part of project is a base board with mounting positions for the table, bit like that other board I made, and something to attach the tripod column to it very stably. At the moment there are too many wobbly bits! Or, maybe, a structure made to take the pan/tilt head and raise and lower it with a length of 10mm studding, a Merton nut/bushes and a windy handle . . . Even an electric motor . . . Possibly controlled by a BBC Micro-bit or an Arduino . . . With limit switches . . .

And a DRO... in all seriousness, I'm pretty sure there are a few import rotry tables on the market now that are inexpensive. Stepper motors and a controller might get you where you want to be as well.

As an aside, how is that x-y table? I'm tempted by them fairly often but wonder how steady it would be with a vise mounted. This conversation might be more appropriate for the fixit thread.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on September 12, 2018, 09:31:43 PM
Hmm, remember I was looking for the 'light meter' display on the Info screen? I downloaded a non-Nikon user manual onto my Kindle and searched in that. Found it. But.

Seems this function only works using connected auto lenses only in the Manual mode. So, using a bellows, even a Nikon bellows, and /or the BR-6 or similar adapter one has to rely on guess work and test shots, rather than setting the apperture or speed for the purpose and adjusting the other with guidance.

Ho, hum.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on September 12, 2018, 10:03:52 PM
Which camera do you have Dave?
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on September 13, 2018, 02:36:27 AM
Which camera do you have Dave?

Nikon D5300
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on September 13, 2018, 05:55:58 AM
Which camera do you have Dave?

Nikon D5300

Dave, I found these instructions on a D5300 site I found. You are probably doing it exactly like this already, but perhaps there is some additional info.

Setting up and shooting in Manual mode
1.   Turn your camera on, and then turn the Mode dial to align the M with the indicator line.
2.   Select your ISO by pressing the i button on the back of the camera.
3.   Press up or down on the Multi-selector to highlight the ISO option, then select OK.
4.   Use the Multi-selector to select the desired ISO setting, then press OK to lock in the change.
5.   Point the camera at your subject, and then activate the camera meter by depressing the shutter button halfway.
6.   View the exposure information in the bottom area of the viewfinder or by looking at the display panel on the rear of the camera.
7.   While the meter is activated, use your thumb to roll the Command dial left and right to change your shutter speed value until the exposure mark is lined up with the zero mark. The exposure information is displayed by a scale with marks that run from –2 to +2 stops. A proper exposure will line up with the arrow mark in the middle. As the indicator moves to the left, it is a sign that you will be underexposing (there is too little light on the sensor to provide adequate exposure). Move the indicator to the right and you will be providing more exposure than the camera meter calls for; this is overexposure.
8.   To set your exposure using the aperture, depress the shutter release button until the meter is activated. Then, while holding down the Exposure Compensation/Aperture button (located behind and to the right of the shutter release button), rotate the Command dial to change the aperture. Rotate right for a smaller aperture (large f-stop number) and left for a larger aperture (small f-stop number).

http://www.peachpit.com/articles/article.aspx?p=2182571&seqNum=6
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on September 13, 2018, 07:11:51 AM
^

 Coo, real duffer's guide stuff!

Yes, that is it, but it only seems to work when using standard, automatic, electronically connected lenses. Stick a non-auto, non-connected bellows, adapter or lens in there, when you really need that function, and it goes away!

The info display gives the speed, set by the camera, but though the apperture is also controlled by the camera that part of the display shows just two hyphens and there is no little "graph". There must be a feedback to tell the camera the lens has received and obeyed its instruction.

Will fiddle some more, checking menu settings, to check this is the only case. Problem is there is more thsn one place some things can be set, some with conflicts as in the case of manual focus. Will also look for online instruction re using bellows and the BR-6 reversing adapter. As usual the manufacturer's manual only covers basic stuff.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on September 13, 2018, 07:31:37 AM
Hmm, nothing found dpecifically on thst but I get the impression that the little graph does not indicate what the internal 'lightmeter' sees directly - as it did on old cameras when you had to line the two indicators in the viewfinder up, but an indication as to what the processor has calculated. As one person commented, an apperture ring stops on a lens ring do not necessarily apply to how much light passes through a reversed lens. However it is possible to measure that light, and still use it to calculate and indicate exposure, with the right programming I am guessing.

Assuming the light through the actual lens is measured of course, some old cameras had a seperate metering lens. With a mirrorless camera measuring the light at the actual focal plane, where it matters, should be a doddle! Wonder if they do so.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on September 13, 2018, 10:05:12 AM
Yup, all menus checked, all combinations of lens/adapter checked, the exposure guide thingie only works in the "normal" set up - with electrically connected automatic lenses.

Guesswork Experience and/or test shots are required when using other devices.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on September 13, 2018, 11:19:28 AM
Yup, all menus checked, all combinations of lens/adapter checked, the exposure guide thingie only works in the "normal" ser up - electrically connected automatic lenses.

Guesswork Experience and/or test shots are required when using other devices.

I am pretty sure you can set your camera to do exposure bracketing by shutter speed, so that it takes 3 or more shots automatically at different speeds. Then at least one should be close to the correct exposure if your original guess is reasonably close.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on September 13, 2018, 02:27:26 PM
Yup, all menus checked, all combinations of lens/adapter checked, the exposure guide thingie only works in the "normal" ser up - electrically connected automatic lenses.

Guesswork Experience and/or test shots are required when using other devices.

I am pretty sure you can set your camera to do exposure bracketing by shutter speed, so that it takes 3 or more shots automatically at different speeds. Then at least one should be close to the correct exposure if your original guess is reasonably close.

Hmm, whether automatic or manual bracketting it's still luck > guess work > experience to hit anywhere near the right combination first time. I have had to triple the the exposure time from first try, or go the other way, needing four or more tests. So the inclination is, "if black or damn near go four times slower; if then too bright go down down one at a time . . .".

Once the setup is set up, all variables like ambient and incident light taken out of the equation; a graph of max-min field of view per lens/bellows limits/extension rings; controllable lighting; no wobbly bits etc one might be in the right state!

Today's task is print a 1mm grid with numbered X-Y axes so I can check the fields of view. That can be done just using live view. Now, how to construct a graph of X x Y, as mm x mm,  indicating which lens/extension combination covers that area - interesting problem, just the kind I like! Lots of variables possible there . ..
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on September 18, 2018, 01:15:53 AM
I'm working on a new technique. Lighting my hand after soaking in an alcohol solution. I'll have a few preliminary shots later tonight. It shows some promice.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on September 18, 2018, 02:20:29 AM
I'm working on a new technique. Lighting my hand after soaking in an alcohol solution. I'll have a few preliminary shots later tonight. It shows some promice.

I would seek to advise you not to do that, JJ.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on September 18, 2018, 02:49:33 AM
Why does everybody say that?! It's not like I'm burning myself. I'm just on fire. There's a crucial difference between the two.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on September 18, 2018, 03:05:21 AM
Why does everybody say that?! It's not like I'm burning myself. I'm just on fire. There's a crucial difference between the two.

Yup, but, apart from the fact that the surface of the burning fluid boils,  heat radiates back through the burning fluid onto the substrate. Try it on a pork shank with skin on it first and observe the effects. Pre-CG special effects guys had a layer of insulating gel on their skin and the shots only lasted long enough for that to keep working.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on September 18, 2018, 05:19:56 AM
It's safer to use a very low-boiling liquid like n-pentane (b.p. 36°C). Less likely to hurt yourself.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on September 18, 2018, 05:32:25 AM
(https://scontent.fewr1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/42098051_1854801287949339_3949004188498788352_o.jpg?_nc_cat=0&efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=c60ad1c43f3cc290d32eabc3dd9171b6&oe=5C3626DC)

If I can lay hands on some n-pentane I'll try that. For now though I'm going to press on. The lighting is trickier than I thought it would be.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on September 18, 2018, 06:10:11 AM
... The lighting is trickier than I thought it would be.

That was my biggest problem when I took this photo.

(https://i.imgur.com/aBSDvQt.jpg)
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Dave on September 18, 2018, 08:12:04 AM
It's safer to use a very low-boiling liquid like n-pentane (b.p. 36°C). Less likely to hurt yourself.

Yeah, was thinking that as I tried to get back to sleep!

Boiling point of isopropanol, common industrial alcohol that I have, is 86 degrees, bit warm. Still wondering about radiated heat.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on October 16, 2018, 02:30:34 PM
(https://scontent.fphl2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/44109296_1889575971138537_2317529048290426880_o.jpg?_nc_cat=100&efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=5a01a4999205ddb6c65ffa7816dcb6ae&oe=5C49DF21)

Having a bit of trouble here trying to get the "sun dogs" to show up on film. Those are the columns of light that shoot through cloud cover down to the ground. In this case there were three brilliant sun dogs streaming down from that cloud bank. I suspect that some digital trickery like HDR might be required but I'm not sure.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on October 16, 2018, 02:52:21 PM
(https://scontent.fphl2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/44109296_1889575971138537_2317529048290426880_o.jpg?_nc_cat=100&efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&oh=5a01a4999205ddb6c65ffa7816dcb6ae&oe=5C49DF21)

Having a bit of trouble here trying to get the "sun dogs" to show up on film. Those are the columns of light that shoot through cloud cover down to the ground. In this case there were three brilliant sun dogs streaming down from that cloud bank. I suspect that some digital trickery like HDR might be required but I'm not sure.

I would say HDR is called for here. Even single-shot HDR should make a big difference, so you could try it, provided it is NEF file. I think you said before that you always shoot NEF anyway.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on October 16, 2018, 03:21:33 PM
I'm a little confused - my thinking was that HDR required multiple shots at different exposure levels. You can do it with a single shot?
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on October 16, 2018, 04:08:21 PM
I'm a little confused - my thinking was that HDR required multiple shots at different exposure levels. You can do it with a single shot?

Yes, because there is enough dynamic range in a RAW or NEF file to extract different "exposures", which are then combined in the orthodox HDR workflow. Programs like Aurora HDR can do it quite successfully. It cannot give the same results as three or more different shots, but it can be pretty good. I'll see whether I have any tutorials on it.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on October 16, 2018, 04:13:18 PM
Later: look at these videos:


Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Icarus on October 16, 2018, 11:17:56 PM
Have any of you photo wizards experimented with UV light while reducing or modifying IR illumination?   Some surprising colors shifts take place. A pure white flower becomes blue or purple or other colors, depending on the chemical composition of the flower..................I reckon that our chem guy, Hermes, will know all about such things.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on October 17, 2018, 04:39:59 AM
Have any of you photo wizards experimented with UV light while reducing or modifying IR illumination?   Some surprising colors shifts take place. A pure white flower becomes blue or purple or other colors, depending on the chemical composition of the flower..................I reckon that our chem guy, Hermes, will know all about such things.

I have seen many examples of photography in the invisible parts of the spectrum, but have never done any myself. Another nice thing to do is play with a UV light and examine the fluorescent and phosphorescent effects of different minerals and other materials.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on October 17, 2018, 09:45:00 PM
Jumpin' Jehoshaphat, HDR really does make a big difference! Nothing to share until I purchase a license for Photomatix but I like it. I really, really like it!
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on October 18, 2018, 04:37:53 AM
Jumpin' Jehoshaphat, HDR really does make a big difference! Nothing to share until I purchase a license for Photomatix but I like it. I really, really like it!

Well, that's the good reaction I was hoping to get from you and I feel like an evangelist that has saved a soul.. This is one of the benefits of shooting in RAW, and now you see why I have been advocating it all this time. Photomatix is considered the best tool, but recently its position has been challenged seriously by Aurora HDR, so before spending any money, also take a look at Aurora HDR. I want to warn, though, that it is very easy to create some really kitschy, eyeball-searing abominations with HDR software.

There is also some free HDR software out there, but I haven't found anything nearly as powerful as Photomatix and Aurora HDR.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on October 18, 2018, 05:27:43 AM
Too late Hermes, I already blew my weekly tool budget on Photomatix. :) And, I might've created a few eyeball searing abominations already but the results really impressed me. Not perfect by any means but much more true to the eye than what came out of the camera.

I've noticed that the reds are brought out just a bit too much in the skies. Still need to do some tweaking I guess.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Tank on October 18, 2018, 06:22:55 AM
Too late Hermes, I already blew my weekly tool budget on Photomatix. :) And, I might've created a few eyeball searing abominations already but the results really impressed me. Not perfect by any means but much more true to the eye than what came out of the camera.

I've noticed that the reds are brought out just a bit too much in the skies. Still need to do some tweaking I guess.
We need some before and after examples.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on October 18, 2018, 06:39:40 AM
Too late Hermes, I already blew my weekly tool budget on Photomatix. :) And, I might've created a few eyeball searing abominations already but the results really impressed me. Not perfect by any means but much more true to the eye than what came out of the camera.

I've noticed that the reds are brought out just a bit too much in the skies. Still need to do some tweaking I guess.

Of course, it is perfectly legitimate to produce over the top effects, provided it is what one intends to do. One man's abomination is another's art.
You did not make a mistake purchasing Photomatix; it is the industry standard. There are lots of colour and other tweaking options you can implement once you know the software well.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on October 18, 2018, 01:30:13 PM
Too late Hermes, I already blew my weekly tool budget on Photomatix. :) And, I might've created a few eyeball searing abominations already but the results really impressed me. Not perfect by any means but much more true to the eye than what came out of the camera.

I've noticed that the reds are brought out just a bit too much in the skies. Still need to do some tweaking I guess.
We need some before and after examples.

It might be Sunday before I get somewhere that has sufficient Internet access again, but you'll have them.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on October 18, 2018, 01:33:37 PM
Too late Hermes, I already blew my weekly tool budget on Photomatix. :) And, I might've created a few eyeball searing abominations already but the results really impressed me. Not perfect by any means but much more true to the eye than what came out of the camera.

I've noticed that the reds are brought out just a bit too much in the skies. Still need to do some tweaking I guess.

Of course, it is perfectly legitimate to produce over the top effects, provided it is what one intends to do. One man's abomination is another's art.
You did not make a mistake purchasing Photomatix; it is the industry standard. There are lots of colour and other tweaking options you can implement once you know the software well.

I'm sure there are lots of options. It's amazing just how much information is stored in an NEF file. My jaw literally dropped when I saw the difference it made in the cow photo.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Tank on October 18, 2018, 02:25:19 PM
Too late Hermes, I already blew my weekly tool budget on Photomatix. :) And, I might've created a few eyeball searing abominations already but the results really impressed me. Not perfect by any means but much more true to the eye than what came out of the camera.

I've noticed that the reds are brought out just a bit too much in the skies. Still need to do some tweaking I guess.
We need some before and after examples.

It might be Sunday before I get somewhere that has sufficient Internet access again, but you'll have them.

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on October 19, 2018, 01:41:51 PM
HDR question - any idea why my "combined images are coming out fuzzy? My camera doesn't do bracketing, so I have to manually adjust the exposure for the three images, if that helps at all. Honestly, the single shot images seem to come out clearer.

I'll try to get some examples up tonight.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on October 19, 2018, 03:34:43 PM
HDR question - any idea why my "combined images are coming out fuzzy? My camera doesn't do bracketing, so I have to manually adjust the exposure for the three images, if that helps at all. Honestly, the single shot images seem to come out clearer.

I'll try to get some examples up tonight.

Firstly, I am really surprised that your camera can't do bracketing. Remind me which model you have. I am guessing that there is too much camera movement when you adjust the exposures, so Photomatix can't align properly. It is always good to use a tripod when doing multiple bracketed shots.

Have you tried different alignment settings in the Merge to HDR Options dialog?
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on October 19, 2018, 04:45:38 PM
It's a Nikon D32 00. I was on a tripod using the remote shutter release to give as much stability as possible.

I might try the alignment setting tonight.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on October 19, 2018, 06:11:28 PM
It's a Nikon D32 00. I was on a tripod using the remote shutter release to give as much stability as possible.

I might try the alignment setting tonight.

Try different options, even try it turned off. Sorry I can't give any advice, because I have never had this problem.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on October 19, 2018, 06:23:56 PM
Yes, I see you are right about the camera. Others have commented on the lack of bracketing as well, for example here:

https://www.flickr.com/groups/1995478@N22/discuss/72157631529632089/
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on October 22, 2018, 01:46:48 AM
Exceptionally long day so before and after shots will have to wait. Prep for surgery, pretend to be a plumber, it all blended together.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on October 22, 2018, 09:52:17 PM
Snipped for future reference and possible ongoing discussion :

I like how the purple came through in the second one.

Thanks. That's a very effective trick to juxtapose complementary colours. It's what makes the red tractor stand out so well against the green grass in your second photo (red and green are opposites on the colour wheel). Sorry, I always tend to over-analyze things.

I'll have to keep the color wheel in mind. I had never thought about colors in that way. I might print one out and slap it on the toolbox, so it sinks in over time.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on October 23, 2018, 04:44:40 AM
Snipped for future reference and possible ongoing discussion :

I like how the purple came through in the second one.

Thanks. That's a very effective trick to juxtapose complementary colours. It's what makes the red tractor stand out so well against the green grass in your second photo (red and green are opposites on the colour wheel). Sorry, I always tend to over-analyze things.

I'll have to keep the color wheel in mind. I had never thought about colors in that way. I might print one out and slap it on the toolbox, so it sinks in over time.

It's very useful. It comes naturally to me from my painting days. An easy way to get the complementary of any colour is to stare at it for 60 seconds, then quickly look at a sheet of white paper. The after-image you see will be the complementary colour on the wheel. Example: you will see an orange after-image after staring at a blue object. So, to make blue pop, paint an orange area next to it.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on October 23, 2018, 05:07:35 AM
An example of complementary colours I took in a market in Quebec.

(https://i.imgur.com/dXHWJeH.jpg)
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on October 23, 2018, 05:16:43 AM
Red and green, also in Quebec.

(https://i.imgur.com/v8WxC9q.jpg)
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on October 26, 2018, 01:06:02 AM
I just realized I forgot the before and after. This has been a long week.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Tank on October 26, 2018, 08:00:57 AM
I just realized I forgot the before and after. This has been a long week.

Don't fret, it's not a banning offence ... yet  ;)
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on December 30, 2018, 02:19:03 AM
Here's a different sort of question for you all, an ethical one. Saturday of last week a bicyclist was hit by a car in front of work. His condition was serious enough that he had to be flown to the trauma center at VCU by the Nightingale helicopter, and I managed to capture several images of the helicopter both on the ground and taking off.

I'm not sure if I should share them though because there has been no news reports about the man's condition. He could've died on the flight for all I can tell. The accident was reported on but that's it. Do I stash them away, never to see the light of day if no word comes of the outcome or do I wait a bit and then put them up?

 
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on December 30, 2018, 03:10:26 AM
Here's a different sort of question for you all, an ethical one. Saturday of last week a bicyclist was hit by a car in front of work. His condition was serious enough that he had to be flown to the trauma center at VCU by the Nightingale helicopter, and I managed to capture several images of the helicopter both on the ground and taking off.

I'm not sure if I should share them though because there has been no news reports about the man's condition. He could've died on the flight for all I can tell. The accident was reported on but that's it. Do I stash them away, never to see the light of day if no word comes of the outcome or do I wait a bit and then put them up?

If the photos only show the helicopter, then I think it would be OK to share them. Any photos of the victim, especially ones that show his face, would be more problematic in my opinion.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on December 31, 2018, 12:50:23 AM
Two freehand night shots, one that turned out fairly well despite having several things working against it, and another that is just bad despite being taken under better conditions. Both were taken in aperture priority mode with a larger aperture than I would have liked (f/5.6) but not having a tripod in reach meant I didn't have much choice. I was using my only auto-focus lens, as the lack of light made manual focusing without a tripod on such a narrow depth of field extremely difficult. Holding and bracing for steadiness were difficult enough.

(https://scontent.fslc2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/49273015_1996290287133771_3997821340835905536_o.jpg?_nc_cat=109&_nc_ht=scontent.fslc2-1.fna&oh=f965bbffae9ffc721e3931773a42f91a&oe=5C93FB9F)

The first image is one that I am happy with in the final result. I worried at the time that the increased distance and doubled ISO (3200) would be far too grainy. But, the composition was much better and you can see actual color on the helicopter, not just differing shades of light. The lettering on the side also seems to be clearer. I don't know it the additional distance played a part in "blending" the RAW photo but it is just objectively better in every respect.

(https://scontent.fslc2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/49815888_1996290337133766_4333838837382905856_o.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_ht=scontent.fslc2-1.fna&oh=440077e02bbb1572eb678a54e20ae225&oe=5C937605)

This photo is utter crap. I was closer, more steadily braced, and the ISO was halved at 1600. The result is a grainy, bland, boring photo that looks like it was taken with a flip phone fifteen years ago. Aside from the composition I don't know what went so wrong here. Perhaps it was just bad luck when I moved closer but I feel like there is a lesson in this. I just wish I understood what that lesson was.

One takeaway from that night is to have a think about the location you are at and the resources it affords. Instead of running to the scene I should have climbed onto the rood of our building and taken a few minutes to set up with the mini tripod I had at hand with a telephoto lens. Longer exposures at reduced ISO settings would have been better in every respect. Having the luxury of a smaller aperture to increase depth of field would have been a big help as well. Live and learn, I guess, and hope that no more bicyclists are injured on that stretch of road.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on December 31, 2018, 03:17:26 AM
I don't really know why it wasn't successful. I probably would have used the largest f-stop on the lens, because at that distance the depth of field would not have been a big issue. Did you use the Auto ISO setting? Did you disable the flash? In this situation you should not use flash.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on December 31, 2018, 04:30:54 AM
Those were shot at f/5.6, the largest aperture the kit lens has available, with the ISO manually set to 3200 and 1600, respectively. The flash was not used. In fact, I have yet to find a situation where the onboard flash is preferable to other adjustments to give a proper exposure. I never use it.

I wanted a higher f-stop to help the auto focus a bit. The AF-S lenses are a bit... slow, and it spent a fair amount of time hunting for clarity. It seems that a higher f-stop, and the increased depth of field leads to quicker shots. In the end I had to focus, switch the lens to manual focus to lock the focus ring, and remember to readjust when I moved.

Quick question about your D750; how do you turn off the auto focus? Is it a menu you have to page through on the LCD, or is there a switch somewhere on the camera body? Asking for a friend...
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on December 31, 2018, 05:02:26 AM
Those were shot at f/5.6, the largest aperture the kit lens has available, with the ISO manually set to 3200 and 1600, respectively. The flash was not used. In fact, I have yet to find a situation where the onboard flash is preferable to other adjustments to give a proper exposure. I never use it.

I wanted a higher f-stop to help the auto focus a bit. The AF-S lenses are a bit... slow, and it spent a fair amount of time hunting for clarity. It seems that a higher f-stop, and the increased depth of field leads to quicker shots. In the end I had to focus, switch the lens to manual focus to lock the focus ring, and remember to readjust when I moved.

Quick question about your D750; how do you turn off the auto focus? Is it a menu you have to page through on the LCD, or is there a switch somewhere on the camera body? Asking for a friend...

I have the older D600. There is a lever on the camera body that switches between manual and auto focus (marked AF/M). On the lens itself there is also a switch to select between the two modes. On top of this, one can also choose AF-A, AF-S, or AF-C on the camera body or the onscreen menu. I prefer AF-C. I guess the D750 behaves the same.

I haven't noticed any effect on focusing speed when I use different apertures on the D600.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on December 31, 2018, 03:32:38 PM
I could be imagining things. Wouldn't be the first time.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on December 31, 2018, 08:34:53 PM
Damnit, now I'm going to have to go out at night with a stopwatch to test this. Or maybe I should setup in the kitchen. Going out at night would be more interesting but might confound my results.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on January 09, 2019, 09:23:46 PM
(https://scontent.fslc2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/49948219_2010609442368522_586958382519287808_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_ht=scontent.fslc2-1.fna&oh=a7f8aa23b6cf73e5e1901f9f5c94f528&oe=5CC412A3)

Is the weird orange glow running on the power lines chromatic aberration or is something else going on? It's a high voltage transmission line. You can see the tower on the right of the photo.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on January 10, 2019, 03:07:47 AM
(https://scontent.fslc2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/49948219_2010609442368522_586958382519287808_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_ht=scontent.fslc2-1.fna&oh=a7f8aa23b6cf73e5e1901f9f5c94f528&oe=5CC412A3)

Is the weird orange glow running on the power lines chromatic aberration or is something else going on? It's a high voltage transmission line. You can see the tower on the right of the photo.

I don't think it is chromatic aberration. It could be corona discharge.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Tank on January 10, 2019, 01:08:23 PM
I can't make out the power lines at all.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on January 14, 2019, 03:20:19 PM
(https://scontent.fslc2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/49948219_2010609442368522_586958382519287808_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&_nc_ht=scontent.fslc2-1.fna&oh=a7f8aa23b6cf73e5e1901f9f5c94f528&oe=5CC412A3)

Is the weird orange glow running on the power lines chromatic aberration or is something else going on? It's a high voltage transmission line. You can see the tower on the right of the photo.

I don't think it is chromatic aberration. It could be corona discharge.

Could you point me to some information regarding corona discharge's relationship to photography? I Google until my thumbs were sore but only found general explanations of the phenomenon.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on January 14, 2019, 03:22:19 PM
I can't make out the power lines at all.

If you follow the tower on the right towards the left of the phot you'll see something "hanging" just below the tree canopy. I don't know, it might be the cloud color bleeding through.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Tank on January 14, 2019, 03:38:11 PM
I can't make out the power lines at all.

If you follow the tower on the right towards the left of the phot you'll see something "hanging" just below the tree canopy. I don't know, it might be the cloud color bleeding through.

I think it's the cloud colour myself.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on March 04, 2019, 05:38:03 PM
I finally found the time to finish converting my old Nikon 50mm f1.4 non-AI lens to fit on my D600 body. These are some shots I took with the lens wide open at the full aperture, f1.4. What is immediately obvious is the extremely shallow depth of field of only a few millimeters, which means focusing on the important part of the subject is absolutely critical. All the rest is a beautiful, creamy blur that I like a lot. The maximum aperture is f16, when the focusing will be less critical.

It is going to be good for available light shots, because the lens grabs tons of light at f1.4.

(https://i.imgur.com/eWMyYPM.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/sMfhLOd.jpg)

The front and back of the bowl are both out of focus.

(https://i.imgur.com/HRwG6Pf.jpg)
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Bluenose on March 04, 2019, 11:30:50 PM
Great photos, Hermes.

I love available light photography.  Having had an f 1.2 lens on my old Minolta SLR, after my trip to the UK, I spent my frequent flyer points on a Canon f1.4 lens for my Canon EOS 600D.  Joy of joys!  I'm able to take shots in candle light, around the camp fire and in just ordinary room lighting.  So much more atmosphere than using a flash.  Yummy!
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on March 05, 2019, 01:03:14 AM
Is there any reason you pick the focus point where you do or is it just what feels right?
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on March 05, 2019, 03:37:17 AM
Is there any reason you pick the focus point where you do or is it just what feels right?

The only rule I follow is to focus on what feels right, or which part I want to show clearly. These were just test shots to show selective foreground and background blurring at f1.4.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on March 05, 2019, 03:42:20 AM
Great photos, Hermes.

I love available light photography.  Having had an f 1.2 lens on my old Minolta SLR, after my trip to the UK, I spent my frequent flyer points on a Canon f1.4 lens for my Canon EOS 600D.  Joy of joys!  I'm able to take shots in candle light, around the camp fire and in just ordinary room lighting.  So much more atmosphere than using a flash.  Yummy!

Thanks, Bluenose. Using this same lens, I took many photos by candle light at parties when I was a student.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on March 05, 2019, 04:14:08 AM
The maximum aperture is f16, when the focusing will be less critical.

Sorry about the sloppy statement. I should have said minimum aperture is f16. That's the maximum f-stop on this lens.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on June 09, 2019, 12:10:19 PM
Free web app to plan times for outdoor photography.

https://www.photoephemeris.com/tpe-for-desktop
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on June 09, 2019, 01:58:30 PM
I'm going to look into the mobile version of that app. Do you use it?
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on June 09, 2019, 02:17:03 PM
I'm going to look into the mobile version of that app. Do you use it?

No, I only heard of the app today. Will probably only use the free desktop PC version with Firefox on my PC.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on June 09, 2019, 02:24:03 PM
This app is supposed to be even better.

http://www.yingwentech.com/
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on June 09, 2019, 02:29:47 PM
I'm going to look into the mobile version of that app. Do you use it?

No, I only heard of the app today. Will probably only use the free desktop PC version with Firefox on my PC.

I meant the desktop program.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on June 09, 2019, 02:54:17 PM
I'm going to look into the mobile version of that app. Do you use it?

No, I only heard of the app today. Will probably only use the free desktop PC version with Firefox on my PC.

I meant the desktop program.

I will probably play with it next time I want to do some outdoor shots. I looked at it briefly when I came back from my shooting excursion this morning. By sheer luck I went out to shoot the buildings at the ideal time, because I was quite happy with the results this morning.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on June 13, 2019, 03:46:50 AM
Some more micro experiments with depth of field using the reversing ring. Closing the aperture down to f/22 still doesn't give the DoF I want so a proper micro lens is probably in order.

(https://scontent.fphl2-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/62348982_2247419465354184_7852380190633099264_o.jpg?_nc_cat=105&efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&_nc_oc=AQnmtGj26VlJpTQPoVMjCMdx-QlU1ARuWrp55P3yVqka_Te9C0T7flh1X4lDRQiX-rYaiqizg023JvKRaEdW-VCf&_nc_ht=scontent.fphl2-2.fna&oh=867d114453415d0395ccd32bbe5428c2&oe=5D885E0C)

The colors are difficult to manage as well, which I think is due to reversing the lens. Switching to the right way round seems to help with color but I'm not sure why this would happen. It's a mystery at this point.

So a micro lens and focus stacking software are in my future. Are there any stacking packages that are recommended?
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on June 13, 2019, 05:31:56 AM
I'll try to advise you as well as I can.

Firstly, it is not advisable to stop down to the minimum aperture of a lens. At very small apertures, undesirable diffraction effects will be more prominent, resulting in unsharpness of your image. The sweet spot will be somewhere in the middle; try f/5.6 or f/8.

As for the colour cast, I don't know why you are getting it, but it is very easy to correct in post processing, so it's the least of your worries.

Regarding camera control software, I use digiCamControl. It is free and controls Nikon cameras. Get it at http://digicamcontrol.com/

I will help you get into it once you have digiCamControl up and running on your PC.

Once you have the 30 or more photos at different focus slices, you have to merge them with focus stacking software. I think most people consider Helicon Focus to be the best, but it is a commercial package. You can download the free version, but it has limited functionality in that it only allows you to shoot JPG photos, not NEF, so I don't like it. I use the full version, which is unrestricted. There are other choices: Photoshop can do a decent job of focus stacking (not as well as Helicon Focus in my experience).

I believe there is a free program called Combine ZP, but I have never used it, so cannot comment on its effectiveness.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Bad Penny II on June 13, 2019, 09:17:41 AM
Some more micro experiments with depth of field using the reversing ring. Closing the aperture down to f/22 still doesn't give the DoF I want so a proper micro lens is probably in order.

(https://scontent.fphl2-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/62348982_2247419465354184_7852380190633099264_o.jpg?_nc_cat=105&efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&_nc_oc=AQnmtGj26VlJpTQPoVMjCMdx-QlU1ARuWrp55P3yVqka_Te9C0T7flh1X4lDRQiX-rYaiqizg023JvKRaEdW-VCf&_nc_ht=scontent.fphl2-2.fna&oh=867d114453415d0395ccd32bbe5428c2&oe=5D885E0C)

Is this guy related to Deep Thought?
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on June 13, 2019, 01:34:36 PM
I downloaded CombineZP earlier and tried it for the first time. I only found a 32-bit version, but it performed satisfactorily, though not quite up to Helicon Focus standard, with a set of focus stacked photos I tried. It is probably worth evaluating further. It's free after all, so cannot be expected to work as well as Helicon Focus.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on June 13, 2019, 01:40:47 PM
I'll give them both a look once I get a proper lens for micro. Going to try to give the control software a whirl when I get home tonight.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on June 13, 2019, 01:42:08 PM
I just found this article.

http://extreme-macro.co.uk/focus-stacking/
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on June 13, 2019, 01:43:28 PM
I'll give them both a look once I get a proper lens for micro. Going to try to give the control software a whirl when I get home tonight.

Let me know if you need any tips.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on June 18, 2019, 03:47:50 PM
I've been experiencing a strange phenomenon. Photos like this:
(https://scontent.forf1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/64824673_2257283217701142_4946369695700746240_o.jpg?_nc_cat=111&efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&_nc_oc=AQlTcmVb1ermGa9EJjt2JFygfcRhddjGKgs481ei1M1HG2Eyslcskv4ZfyDC7cWw_vw&_nc_ht=scontent.forf1-1.fna&oh=5c5dd1929e26a0493be099e520567e6f&oe=5D8E07FC)

They look decent on my laptop when I'm editing but on any phone they look absolutely terrible. I don't know where to look to figure out how to fix the problem.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on June 18, 2019, 05:23:59 PM
I've been experiencing a strange phenomenon. Photos like this:
(https://scontent.forf1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/64824673_2257283217701142_4946369695700746240_o.jpg?_nc_cat=111&efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&_nc_oc=AQlTcmVb1ermGa9EJjt2JFygfcRhddjGKgs481ei1M1HG2Eyslcskv4ZfyDC7cWw_vw&_nc_ht=scontent.forf1-1.fna&oh=5c5dd1929e26a0493be099e520567e6f&oe=5D8E07FC)

They look decent on my laptop when I'm editing but on any phone they look absolutely terrible. I don't know where to look to figure out how to fix the problem.

If the photos look wrong on all phones, then perhaps your laptop graphics display settings are out of kilter. There should be steps to fine tune the gamma, contrast, and colour rendering on your make of laptop's monitor you could try.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on June 18, 2019, 06:14:46 PM
http://www.onecomputerguy.com/windows7/windows7_calibrate_color.htm
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on June 18, 2019, 09:56:03 PM
I'll check that out. This has been frustrating me for a while.

Any advice for portraiture? I'm setting up to take some portraits with a girl I used to work with on Thursday and want to get as much as I can out of the experience.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on June 19, 2019, 05:26:17 AM
I'll check that out. This has been frustrating me for a while.

Any advice for portraiture? I'm setting up to take some portraits with a girl I used to work with on Thursday and want to get as much as I can out of the experience.

Use a long lens, or zoom to the longest focal length you can get on your lens. If you use a short lens, like a 35mm or 50mm, the nose will be out of proportion and look too big on the face. A lens of 105mm to 200mm is best for portraits.

Focus on at least one eye. If the eyes are out of focus, the portrait looks weird.

On the other hand, if you do nude shots, a short focal length can give an interesting perspective.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on June 19, 2019, 03:35:46 PM
Now I'm curious, how does focal length effect nose size?
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on June 19, 2019, 04:12:55 PM
Now I'm curious, how does focal length effect nose size?

Let's say you are using a 35mm lens. To fill the frame with the face, you will have to get up quite close to the head. Because the nose will be relatively speaking very close to the lens, compared to the eyes, it will look too big. With a longer lens, you can be further away from the head to fill the frame, so the ratio of the distance of the tip of the nose to the lens to the distance from the eyes to the lens, will be a smaller ratio. My words probably sound confusing, so the best is to try it for yourself with two focal lengths.

I am sure there must some good sites that explain it better than I can in words, so I will do a search and give you the links.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on June 19, 2019, 04:22:34 PM
A Google search yielded a few good sites:


http://www.danvojtech.cz/blog/2016/07/amazing-how-focal-length-affect-shape-of-the-face/

https://natalispalette.jimdo.com/new-and-old-camera-lenses-by-yuri-stangrit/usable-lens-tips/right-focal-length-choice-for-the-face-portraiture/

If you know what's good for you, you don't want your girlfriend to look like a clown.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on June 19, 2019, 08:33:04 PM
That makes perfect sense Hermes. Your explanation was excellent, no googling needed! Nudes, however, are unlikely in the extreme. She calls me "her brother from an African mother."
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Bad Penny II on July 11, 2019, 10:40:41 AM
I got a Canon Canon EOS 500D a while back with the 18-55 & 55-250 kit lenses.
I subsequently got a EF 50mm.
Recently I picked up a 550D with 2 sets of the 18-55 &55-250 kit lenses at a huge bargain.
Now I've got 3 sets of 18-55 & 55-250 kit lenses.
I don't plan on selling either camera.
I was going to sell one set of kit lenses, $100+$40.  US $70 + $28
I do use the 55-250 a fair bit, not the 18-55 some much lately.

Now I'm not sure if I should.  :chin:
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on July 11, 2019, 12:41:23 PM
Duplicates? Yeah, I'd sell off the duplicates
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on July 11, 2019, 02:23:06 PM
Duplicates? Yeah, I'd sell off the duplicates

I agree with that opinion.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on July 11, 2019, 02:42:32 PM
Duplicates? Yeah, I'd sell off the duplicates

I agree with that opinion.

And put the money towards either a longer telephoto or a very wide angle lens. Or a fish eye... Or a macro... Or a tripod... The possibilities are endless.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Bad Penny II on July 11, 2019, 03:01:18 PM
Duplicates? Yeah, I'd sell off the duplicates

I agree with that opinion.

And put the money towards either a longer telephoto or a very wide angle lens. Or a fish eye... Or a macro... Or a tripod... The possibilities are endless.

Ye, I was thinking I'd get a Canon EF-S 24mm f/2.8 but will it really solve my problems, will it fill my need?
Macros are appealing, better than my tubes but they're pretty pricey.
And redundancy, how likely is it a lens will give up the ghost and I'll need a spare?
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on July 11, 2019, 03:43:39 PM
I'd personally rather have a variety than a hoard of duplicates. If one dies on you then you will be out the cost of a replacement, this is true. But you might be able to justify a better piece of glass in the same focal range if and when that time comes if you have to find a replacement.

Think about it, if you wear out a lens - unlikely, I know - then that lens and its capabilities are important to the work you do. Hell, if you damage it at the beach because that's the lens you always have with you it comes out to the same thing. It gives the opportunity to upgrade the workhorses should something bad happen.

Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Bad Penny II on July 11, 2019, 04:51:45 PM
I'd personally rather have a variety than a hoard of duplicates. If one dies on you then you will be out the cost of a replacement, this is true. But you might be able to justify a better piece of glass in the same focal range if and when that time comes if you have to find a replacement.

Think about it, if you wear out a lens - unlikely, I know - then that lens and its capabilities are important to the work you do. Hell, if you damage it at the beach because that's the lens you always have with you it comes out to the same thing. It gives the opportunity to upgrade the workhorses should something bad happen.

You've convinced me, I'll sell my third set of 18-55 & 55-250 kit lenses for a pittance.
I'm not buying nothing though.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on August 02, 2019, 06:48:54 PM
I've decided to try the technique of back button focusing, since a lot of photographers swear by it. I will keep my camera set up to do it for a week or two, then report back on my experience.

Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on August 04, 2019, 02:40:47 PM
What's the advantage of that method?
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on August 04, 2019, 03:41:37 PM
What's the advantage of that method?

It separates focusing and shutter release into two separate operations, instead of the usual half-press on the shutter release button to focus. That means you can put the focusing point on the object of interest, press the back button to focus, release the back button, and then you can point the camera anywhere to recompose the shot without losing the desired focus when you press the shutter release button to take the shot. You also don't have to do the operation of moving your focus point around with the multi selector on the back of the camera, which I always find fiddly to do and hate it.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on August 04, 2019, 03:48:31 PM
Oh, I forgot to mention that it also eliminates having to use the AE/AF lock button on the back of the camera, which I also hate doing.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on August 05, 2019, 12:43:59 AM
I'm going to have to try this out. Half press can be annoying when the camera decides to hunt for focus. 
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Bluenose on August 05, 2019, 03:04:07 AM
Hmm...  maybe it's my photographic beginning with a Minolta 35 mm SLR, but I'm sure with my Canon DSLR I can focus using the focus ring on the lens, which seems most natural to me.  I'l  have to check now, when I get home, to see if I remember this correctly...  LOL
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on August 05, 2019, 04:59:58 AM
Hmm...  maybe it's my photographic beginning with a Minolta 35 mm SLR, but I'm sure with my Canon DSLR I can focus using the focus ring on the lens, which seems most natural to me.  I'l  have to check now, when I get home, to see if I remember this correctly...  LOL

That is a feature of some lenses; some do it, some don't. The lens I use most often allows one to focus manually as well, but these days I rarely do that, unless I have to for some reason.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: Bluenose on August 05, 2019, 08:18:38 AM
Hmm...  maybe it's my photographic beginning with a Minolta 35 mm SLR, but I'm sure with my Canon DSLR I can focus using the focus ring on the lens, which seems most natural to me.  I'l  have to check now, when I get home, to see if I remember this correctly...  LOL

That is a feature of some lenses; some do it, some don't. The lens I use most often allows one to focus manually as well, but these days I rarely do that, unless I have to for some reason.


Fair enough, I guess it's whatever you're used to. I would never think to use the back panel for focus.  As I said, just ingrained habit from decades of doing it that way.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on September 01, 2019, 07:29:33 PM
I've developed a bit of a workflow now. With the camera, I get multiple exposures of whatever subject I'm working with. I genuinely prefer manual to the shutter and aperture priority modes, aside from special circumstances. The only time I use either priority modes is shutter priority at the gym to capture motion, and that's only because the constant ISO adjustment due to lighting makes manual too slow.

For editing I drop the RAW images into dated subfolders and import them into Darktable for viewing and assessment. Any one off shots get their first adjustment here and then I go into Photomatix for any HDR image processing. Sometimes Photomatix does a better job with single photos too so that's always an option.

From there, each second draft is loaded into Gimp 2 for touchups and rotations. I've found that the color picker tool and brush in Gimp can be used to remove motion artifacts in HDR drafts. This photo required that treatment:

(https://scontent.fphl2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/69713653_2387965611299568_4909440355708960768_o.jpg?_nc_cat=100&efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&_nc_oc=AQkdByq8XhrjGZHtTwFqduzNomhOdPFuOAhYdgv5eNOQ2koYU74oBSuLTsxCFHs1JMTkTC3FBoPCitWIRTIEDGMr&_nc_ht=scontent.fphl2-1.fna&oh=749305104eb23ee26ba725bbab706d96&oe=5E144F2C)

That final image is composed of six different shots which took a little over a minute to take. In that time the crescent moon moved a lot. It's amazing just how quickly the moon and the sun trace their arc across the sky.

So, with the color picker and brush in Gimp I was able to "erase" the fainter, ghost crescents leaving a single, relatively sharp moon and its light cast onto the water. Once the horizon has been adjusted - the angular changes are much finer in Gimp than either Darktable or Photomatix - the final image is ready for export as a PNG file.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on September 02, 2019, 04:39:57 AM
I've developed a bit of a workflow now. With the camera, I get multiple exposures of whatever subject I'm working with. I genuinely prefer manual to the shutter and aperture priority modes, aside from special circumstances. The only time I use either priority modes is shutter priority at the gym to capture motion, and that's only because the constant ISO adjustment due to lighting makes manual too slow.

For editing I drop the RAW images into dated subfolders and import them into Darktable for viewing and assessment. Any one off shots get their first adjustment here and then I go into Photomatix for any HDR image processing. Sometimes Photomatix does a better job with single photos too so that's always an option.

From there, each second draft is loaded into Gimp 2 for touchups and rotations. I've found that the color picker tool and brush in Gimp can be used to remove motion artifacts in HDR drafts. This photo required that treatment:

(https://scontent.fphl2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/69713653_2387965611299568_4909440355708960768_o.jpg?_nc_cat=100&efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&_nc_oc=AQkdByq8XhrjGZHtTwFqduzNomhOdPFuOAhYdgv5eNOQ2koYU74oBSuLTsxCFHs1JMTkTC3FBoPCitWIRTIEDGMr&_nc_ht=scontent.fphl2-1.fna&oh=749305104eb23ee26ba725bbab706d96&oe=5E144F2C)

That final image is composed of six different shots which took a little over a minute to take. In that time the crescent moon moved a lot. It's amazing just how quickly the moon and the sun trace their arc across the sky.

So, with the color picker and brush in Gimp I was able to "erase" the fainter, ghost crescents leaving a single, relatively sharp moon and its light cast onto the water. Once the horizon has been adjusted - the angular changes are much finer in Gimp than either Darktable or Photomatix - the final image is ready for export as a PNG file.

That is pretty much my work flow as well, except that I open the NEF files in Lightroom for initial developing. I can do almost everything I need in Lightroom and very rarely need any further manipulations in other software, but if any photos need something more, I use Photoshop. I don't do much HDR, so don't use Photomatix often. This time we spend developing is the price we pay for all be benefits of shooting raw.

For my own purposes, I export the final versions to TIF; to give them to others, I compress to smaller JPG files, because the TIFs can easily be up to around 120MB.

I really like back button focusing and I'm going to keep using it.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on September 02, 2019, 02:28:54 PM
I keep forgetting to switch to back button. Better do that now...
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on September 02, 2019, 03:20:37 PM
I keep forgetting to switch to back button. Better do that now...

It may feel awkward at the beginning, but after a few shots it will become comfortable and you should like it as much as I do. It took me a few days to get used to it.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on September 07, 2019, 07:54:15 AM
An excellent photography technical site run by Dave Morrow.

https://www.davemorrowphotography.com/welcome
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on September 07, 2019, 10:23:57 AM
Dave Morrow's back button focus page.

https://www.davemorrowphotography.com/back-button-focus#Back_Button_Focus_8211_Why_You_Need_It
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on September 07, 2019, 01:41:20 PM
I'm considering a film camera. Looking at a Nikon N75 to get my feet wet in B&W film photography. It's a mostly plastic body but seems to have been well reviewed at it's release. My thinking is that a used consumer grade camera might be in better shape than a used pro camera, due to lower use and wear. Lots of people buy things like this and set them on a shelf after using them one time.

Does that sound reasonable or am I off in my thinking?
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on September 07, 2019, 03:04:16 PM
I'm considering a film camera. Looking at a Nikon N75 to get my feet wet in B&W film photography. It's a mostly plastic body but seems to have been well reviewed at it's release. My thinking is that a used consumer grade camera might be in better shape than a used pro camera, due to lower use and wear. Lots of people buy things like this and set them on a shelf after using them one time.

Does that sound reasonable or am I off in my thinking?

No, it may be a good idea, but unless you plan to develop and print photos yourself, you may as well use the D3200 in black and white mode, or convert your colour shots into monochrome. That will be a lot less trouble. You can get good moody effects in monochrome.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on September 07, 2019, 11:39:06 PM
I want to try developing my own film. The technical challenge interests me.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on September 08, 2019, 04:26:37 AM
I want to try developing my own film. The technical challenge interests me.

Do you have a suitable darkroom area with running water? For black and white film developing and printing, a red light is OK. For colour work you have to grope around in total darkness, but I guess you've had lots of practice in that. Better to start with black and white in my experience.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: jumbojak on September 08, 2019, 04:36:15 AM
I can use the bathroom for a darkroom. That gives me running water and a place to work. I could even swap to a red light.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on September 08, 2019, 04:55:30 AM
I can use the bathroom for a darkroom. That gives me running water and a place to work. I could even swap to a red light.

Don't forget a good extractor fan as well. The chemicals are quite smelly.
Title: Re: Photography technical advice, questions, tips and techniques.
Post by: hermes2015 on September 08, 2019, 04:58:47 AM
http://resourcemagonline.com/2017/11/how-to-set-up-a-darkroom-and-develop-your-own-film/82794/