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General => Science => Topic started by: Dave on March 04, 2018, 09:38:36 AM

Title: Women in science and technology
Post by: Dave on March 04, 2018, 09:38:36 AM
I have had a thing about women in science for about ten years now, always knew of those like Marie Curie of course, and Jocelyn Bell (Burnell) of pulsar fame, but then I heard of Rosalind Franklin, Hedy Lamarr and then Lise Meitner, Ada Lovelace, Grace Hopper and others. I recognised some of them never really got their due rewards.

Another, though not a practicing scientist but a science journalist, is Dava Sobel. Her story, book and docudrama, of the measuring of longditude at sea is great. And she has a style with cosmology that, at her best (as in the BBC Radio series "The Compass: Stargazing") I think compliments Carl Sagan. But here she talks of the astronomical ladies of Harvard (where Grace Hopper gets a mention in the intro):



Title: Re: Women in science and technology
Post by: Tank on March 04, 2018, 09:43:05 AM
Good thread. I have made it 'sticky'.
Title: Re: Women in science and technology
Post by: Rift Zone on March 20, 2018, 12:23:34 AM
 :love:
Title: Re: Women in science and technology
Post by: Icarus on March 20, 2018, 09:28:47 PM
There is book out there titled:  A Lab Of Ones Own, by Patricia Fara (Oxford Press). 
During the war, many women in the UK replaced their aprons for chemical suits and stepped into previously male only domains of science. I have not read the book but it does sound interesting.

The same thing happened in the US in that time of urgency.  The men went away to war, the women took up the slack and they did it well. 

Another new  book about the female role in the development of the internet  is titled: Broad Band...The untold story of the women who made the internet. by Claire L. Evans. The title may be a sly attempt at dry humor.
Title: Re: Women in science and technology
Post by: xSilverPhinx on April 01, 2018, 05:15:32 PM
How did I miss this thread?  :o

I googled 'woman in science' because sadly, I don't know of that many women scientists compared to men. There's a wiki page on the topic:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_science (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_science)

Lots of names I had never seen before in my life. :sad sigh:

Maybe, historically, if women had been given more space and encouraged in their scientific pursuits the world would be a different place. 
Title: Re: Women in science and technology
Post by: Dave on April 01, 2018, 06:16:45 PM
How did I miss this thread?  :o

I googled 'woman in science' because sadly, I don't know of that many women scientists compared to men. There's a wiki page on the topic:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_science (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_science)

Lots of names I had never seen before in my life. :sad sigh:

Maybe, historically, if women had been given more space and encouraged in their scientific pursuits the world would be a different place.

I agree with you, Silver, but it seems to be global, even in 1st world countries.

Quote
Women In Science, Technology, Engineering, And Mathematics (STEM)
Women Are Scarce in Scientific Research and Development
Averaged across regions, women accounted for less than a third (28.8%) of those employed in scientific research and development (R&D) across the world in 2014

Central Asia (47.2%), Latin American and the Caribbean (44.7%), Central and Eastern Europe (39.6%), and the Arab States (39.9%) are regions in which women represent over a third of the R&D workforce.
http://www.catalyst.org/knowledge/women-science-technology-engineering-and-mathematics-stem

But it looks like Latin America is one of the better regions!

We were told, a few years ago, that girls were exceeding boys in results iin secondary science education but few follow it up into tertiary education outside of the medical fields. We also had the problem here, when we generated many more universities by allowing colleges to convert, with a concentration on the service industries, politics, humanities and other non-scientific fields. Several unis closed their labs and dropped expensive sci-tech courses for cheaper, paper based, ones. Certain political decisions that almost closed British jnfustry did not help.

So, with less funding and fewer uni places and job opportunities the bias seemed to move back to men.

I am never sure whether simple change in priorities with maturity, apathy in fighting "the system" or what else causes the girls to drop out of the race early. Is it sexist of me to say that I can see the attraction of the medical field to women, and that science and technological research requires, as well as good methodolgy - which I feel is a more female trait - also a sense of play - perhaps more of a male inclination? Certainly the female engineers we had in the development dept at my last job got very short with us blokes and our jokes and tricks - but well all contributed about equally. Though the men were more liable to make moves "out of the box", work on inspiration and intuition, "What if . . .", and find the fit with theory later.
Title: Re: Women in science and technology
Post by: xSilverPhinx on April 01, 2018, 10:45:46 PM
I am never sure whether simple change in priorities with maturity, apathy in fighting "the system" or what else causes the girls to drop out of the race early.

'simple change in priorities with maturity'

Maybe. I think when children come along it might change things for a lot of people. Maybe less for new fathers than it does for new mothers who usually take on the role of primary caretaker.

'apathy in fighting "the system"'

I don't think there's a difference between men and women when it comes to apathy and fighting the system. Women can be just as driven, although probably in many cases not as respected or heard. There are, in general, double standards judging assertive men and assertive women.


Quote
Is it sexist of me to say that I can see the attraction of the medical field to women, and that science and technological research requires, as well as good methodolgy - which I feel is a more female trait - also a sense of play - perhaps more of a male inclination? Certainly the female engineers we had in the development dept at my last job got very short with us blokes and our jokes and tricks - but well all contributed about equally. Though the men were more liable to make moves "out of the box", work on inspiration and intuition, "What if . . .", and find the fit with theory later.

I think there's the main problem, it's the preconceived notions of what types jobs are better suited to men and women. I don't feel having a good methodology is necessarily a female trait. I know quite a few men -- who are a bit controlling -- who have this characteristic. Could it be that such a thing stems from being a more controlling or domineering type instead?

A sense of play is more of a male inclination? :notsure: Really? :grin: Not the way I see it.  :smileshake: Some women might not like some of the jokes that men make for their content or the pranks they play on others but that doesn't mean that we in general don't like jokes. We just play differently.

Just a small derail: Why is there even play in the first place? If there is a evolutionary explanation for it, could it be a prep for real life events? Dogs play fight and hunt, for instance. If men in general are the ones who go to war and on raids then it would make some sense that boys' play is more rough-and-tumble than girls', and hones skills such as muscle coordination. Team sports favour cooperation. And etc.

As for men following their intuition and doing things outside the box more than women in the field, I wonder if this is a case of an assertive, outspoken women being seen as basically a bitch by many, and so women tend to tone it down a little?

Title: Re: Women in science and technology
Post by: Dave on April 02, 2018, 09:06:00 AM
^

Hmm, seems that I suffer stereotypitis as much as the next! My memory of work certainly seems to contsin more physical examples of humour - in a "physics" environment. But yes, there does tend to be some difference in humour and play type between genders when applied to others in the same gender/peer group - boys play rougher?
Title: Re: Women in science and technology
Post by: xSilverPhinx on April 02, 2018, 01:00:43 PM
^

Hmm, seems that I suffer stereotypitis as much as the next! My memory of work certainly seems to contsin more physical examples of humour - in a "physics" environment. But yes, there does tend to be some difference in humour and play type between genders when applied to others in the same gender/peer group - boys play rougher?

From my perspective the type of pranks boys play on each other border on bullying (pulling the chair out from under a person, pushing others etc.), but they say it isn't so and if the victim doesn't feel that way then...  :shrug:

Title: Re: Women in science and technology
Post by: Dave on April 20, 2018, 03:50:10 PM
I think the subject of this talk has been on before, but I really wanted to introduce someone new to me, Poppy Crum, Chief Scientist at the Dolby Laboratories. From what I have seen she is well into perception (particularly audio perception) and technology -


and a keen advocate against gender bias in science.


She is also going against the grain in pushing for more personal data, rather than less, being available for research - but with safeguards. That was a brief bit on BBC's "Inside Science" (not yet available) , can't find that TED talk yet. She also mentioned emotion sensors, some working from things like changes in CO2 content in auditoriums etc.

But, another woman out there in front.
Title: Re: Women in science and technology
Post by: Icarus on April 20, 2018, 08:56:20 PM
Not in the same league as Ms. Crum but my hat is tipped to the steely cool female pilot of the Southwest Airlines plane that blew an engine and damaged the air frame. She managed to get the plane safely on the ground without further threat to the safety of the occupants. 
Title: Re: Women in science and technology
Post by: Tank on April 21, 2018, 10:07:17 AM
Not in the same league as Ms. Crum but my hat is tipped to the steely cool female pilot of the Southwest Airlines plane that blew an engine and damaged the air frame. She managed to get the plane safely on the ground without further threat to the safety of the occupants.
It's what she's trained and paid for. She did a good job.
Title: Re: Women in science and technology
Post by: Dave on April 21, 2018, 11:34:22 AM
Not in the same league as Ms. Crum but my hat is tipped to the steely cool female pilot of the Southwest Airlines plane that blew an engine and damaged the air frame. She managed to get the plane safely on the ground without further threat to the safety of the occupants.
It's what she's trained and paid for. She did a good job.
It also shows that women can cope competently with severe emergencies without having a fit of the vapours. I did not know that it was a female pilot until Icarus' post.
Title: Re: Women in science and technology
Post by: Icarus on June 17, 2018, 10:18:38 PM
Here is another ultra bright lady.  Is it OK to describe a PHD physicist as a bright lady. I suspect that she is more than that. https://www.quantamagazine.org/the-physics-of-glass-opens-a-window-into-biology-20180611/
Title: Re: Women in science and technology
Post by: Dave on June 17, 2018, 10:36:34 PM
Here is another ultra bright lady.  Is it OK to describe a PHD physicist as a bright lady. I suspect that she is more than that. https://www.quantamagazine.org/the-physics-of-glass-opens-a-window-into-biology-20180611/

Yes, clever but of association there, I love an open mind thst xan make lesps.

I will also offer Lisa Randall.

Quote
In 2004, Lisa was recognized as the most cited theoretical physicist in the world with about 10,000 citations on her work
https://www.aps.org/careers/physicists/profiles/lrandall.cfm


For some reason her name surfaced in my mind as I read the first article. She was being held back in her career because of her gender and despite her citations way back.
Title: Re: Women in science and technology
Post by: Icarus on June 28, 2018, 08:26:17 PM
Academia-net.org is a data base containing profiles of 2,400 outstanding women researchers from all disciplines.

  Our XSP just might one day become one of the women in the list.
Title: Re: Women in science and technology
Post by: Dave on July 04, 2018, 09:40:12 PM
Popping back 1600 odd years would place us back in the time of Hypatia of Alexandria - mathematician and astrononer and outstanding teacher. And possibly killed on the covert orders of the xtian archbishop of the time.

BBC Radio 4's "Science stories" gave a flavour of the story, as usual not founded on many facts but still interesting.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0b89nq4

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypatia
Title: Re: Women in science and technology
Post by: Icarus on July 04, 2018, 11:52:22 PM
Cepheids are variable stars that change their luminescence periodically. Some times every earth day.  In 1912 Henrietta Leavitt realized that the predictability of the cepheids could enable her to calculate the distance to the star and other far off objects.  Using the relation now known as Leavitts Law, she determined that the brightness of the {cepheid} variables function as a remarkable celestial time piece.

Raise you glass to Ms Leavitt. In 1912 the social norm was that she was supposed to be cooking dinner, washing, the clothes, and changing the babies diaper.  She excelled in spite of the stuffy, misdirected, foolish  norm that she had to live with.
Title: Re: Women in science and technology
Post by: Dave on August 02, 2018, 04:59:05 PM
There is a bew body promoting women in STEM fields. Seems they expected a few hundred responses to an open letter and got about 20 000!

I am all for this and have put my money where my mouth (er, finger?) is to the tune of $10.

https://500womenscientists.org/who-we-are/

Gonna join up, Silver? Get networking?

Title: Re: Women in science and technology
Post by: Icarus on August 05, 2018, 07:06:29 AM
Then there is military science and tactics (MST)  have a look at these women. 
Title: Re: Women in science and technology
Post by: Dave on August 05, 2018, 08:54:46 AM
Then there is military science and tactics (MST)  have a look at these women. 

That just looked like an excuse to show some beautiful women in uniform, assuming they were all genuinely members of the wrmed forces.. More sexism than science?
Title: Re: Women in science and technology
Post by: Icarus on August 05, 2018, 09:02:43 PM
Right Dave, the intent was to feature attractive women.  It is OK for women to be pretty even if they are scientists or soldiers with guns. Females of almost any variety can be the fiercest of fighters.   
Title: Re: Women in science and technology
Post by: Dave on August 05, 2018, 09:27:36 PM
Right Dave, the intent was to feature attractive women.  It is OK for women to be pretty even if they are scientists or soldiers with guns. Females of almost any variety can be the fiercest of fighters.

I have only personally observed the full fighting fury of the female in the defence of kids and in fighting off another woman making a play for their man! When I was in the RAF there were very few female combatants anywhere. Yes, I imagine there are some very good female warriors around, why not! I saw one interview with a female Kurdish general (in charge of the female fighters of course) who looked very familiar with the Kalishnikov she was cleaning at the same time.

However, being fussy, this thread was "women in science and tech", not in the infantry or even fighter aircraft. Though I have the same respect for those that I have for their male colleagues. I am a bit concerned about the motives behind that video, though I am happy to see genuine examples where women, beautiful or not, are genuinely doing a scientifuc or technical job in the armed forces.

I admit to being a bit of a feminist, just a little bit . . .
Title: Re: Women in science and technology
Post by: Icarus on August 11, 2018, 01:07:22 AM
If you are into the arguments about the five devastation periods of the earth, this is worth a read.  Warning: It is a bit long.  It is about a paleontologist that argues against the asteroid impact theory.  She is a helluva lady scientist.  Her name Gerta Keller causes anger for some of the impact believers.  In either case the dinosaurs were wiped out. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/09/dinosaur-extinction-debate/565769/
Title: Re: Women in science and technology
Post by: Dave on August 11, 2018, 07:53:55 AM
If you are into the arguments about the five devastation periods of the earth, this is worth a read.  Warning: It is a bit long.  It is about a paleontologist that argues against the asteroid impact theory.  She is a helluva lady scientist.  Her name Gerta Keller causes anger for some of the impact believers.  In either case the dinosaurs were wiped out. https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/09/dinosaur-extinction-debate/565769/

I 'll read in detail later, but in an esrly morning scan of it as soon as I saw they were in India I thought, "Decsn Traps".

Title: Re: Women in science and technology
Post by: Dave on September 06, 2018, 12:37:09 PM
Jocelyn Bell Burnell has been awarded the "Special Breakthrough Prize in Fundamental Physics [... ] for fundamental contributions to the discovery of pulsars, and a lifetime of inspiring leadership in the scientific community."

And what is this eminent lady going to do with the $3 000 000 prize? Keep up the good work and use it to promote women and ethnic minorities in physics.

Every more reason for my admiration of this lady.

Quote
Jocelyn Bell Burnell wins $3 million prize for discovering pulsars
The astronomer was famously excluded from the 1974 Nobel Prize in Physics.

When the Nobel Prizes roll around each year, inevitably there is chatter not just about who will win, but about those in the past who should have won, but didn't, particularly women scientists. Jocelyn Bell Burnell, who discovered pulsars in the 1960s, is one of the names most commonly invoked. Now 75, she's just been awarded something arguably better: a $3 million Special Breakthrough Prize in Fundamental Physics.

Originally founded in 2012, the Breakthrough Prizes are intended to be the "Oscars of Science." In addition to the regular awards, the selection committee is also free to award a Special Breakthrough Prize in Fundamental Physics any time it wishes, and the honor need not be for recent discoveries. Bell Burnell is being honored "for fundamental contributions to the discovery of pulsars, and a lifetime of inspiring leadership in the scientific community."

https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/09/jocelyn-bell-burnell-wins-3-million-prize-for-discovering-pulsars/
Title: Re: Women in science and technology
Post by: xSilverPhinx on September 06, 2018, 02:29:55 PM
There is a bew body promoting women in STEM fields. Seems they expected a few hundred responses to an open letter and got about 20 000!

I am all for this and have put my money where my mouth (er, finger?) is to the tune of $10.

https://500womenscientists.org/who-we-are/

Gonna join up, Silver? Get networking?

Oh that's cool. I'm going to check that out.
Title: Re: Women in science and technology
Post by: xSilverPhinx on September 06, 2018, 02:30:29 PM
Jocelyn Bell Burnell has been awarded the "Special Breakthrough Prize in Fundamental Physics [... ] for fundamental contributions to the discovery of pulsars, and a lifetime of inspiring leadership in the scientific community."

And what is this eminent lady going to do with the $3 000 000 prize? Keep up the good work and use it to promote women and ethnic minorities in physics.

Every more reason for my admiration of this lady.

Quote
Jocelyn Bell Burnell wins $3 million prize for discovering pulsars
The astronomer was famously excluded from the 1974 Nobel Prize in Physics.

When the Nobel Prizes roll around each year, inevitably there is chatter not just about who will win, but about those in the past who should have won, but didn't, particularly women scientists. Jocelyn Bell Burnell, who discovered pulsars in the 1960s, is one of the names most commonly invoked. Now 75, she's just been awarded something arguably better: a $3 million Special Breakthrough Prize in Fundamental Physics.

Originally founded in 2012, the Breakthrough Prizes are intended to be the "Oscars of Science." In addition to the regular awards, the selection committee is also free to award a Special Breakthrough Prize in Fundamental Physics any time it wishes, and the honor need not be for recent discoveries. Bell Burnell is being honored "for fundamental contributions to the discovery of pulsars, and a lifetime of inspiring leadership in the scientific community."

https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/09/jocelyn-bell-burnell-wins-3-million-prize-for-discovering-pulsars/

Well deserved.
Title: Re: Women in science and technology
Post by: Tank on October 03, 2018, 08:02:12 AM
First woman Physics Nobel winner in 55 years (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-45655151)

(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/1832D/production/_103671199_strickland5.jpg)

Quote
The Nobel Prize in Physics has been awarded to a woman for the first time in 55 years.

Donna Strickland, from Canada, is only the third woman winner of the award, along with Marie Curie, who won in 1903, and Maria Goeppert-Mayer, who was awarded the prize in 1963.

Dr Strickland shares this year's prize with Arthur Ashkin, from the US, and Gerard Mourou, from France.

It recognises their discoveries in the field of laser physics...
Title: Re: Women in science and technology
Post by: xSilverPhinx on October 03, 2018, 02:29:32 PM
That makes me both so happy and sad at the same time. Why did it take another 55 years for a woman to get the recognition?

Imagine just how many Jocelyn Bells there are out there. :(
Title: Re: Women in science and technology
Post by: Dave on October 03, 2018, 03:50:40 PM
That makes me both so happy and sad at the same time. Why did it take another 55 years for a woman to get the recognition?

Imagine just how many Jocelyn Bells there are out there. :(
Here, here!
Title: Re: Women in science and technology
Post by: Icarus on October 03, 2018, 11:52:36 PM
^ seconded
Title: Re: Women in science and technology
Post by: Dave on October 23, 2018, 10:04:30 PM
An amazing woman with an amazing career in earth science who now lives in a mud hut near the Masaii Mara as the chief's wife, erm, by accident.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0000t5z
Title: Re: Women in science and technology
Post by: xSilverPhinx on February 01, 2019, 12:57:25 PM
Beyond Curie (https://www.beyondcurie.com/)

Quote
Beyond Curie is a design project that highlights badass women in science, technology, engineering + mathematics.
Title: Re: Women in science and technology
Post by: Icarus on March 19, 2019, 01:55:13 AM
There are legions more brilliant women who deserve recognition for their contributions to science, sociology, and judicial exceptionalism.

Isolated example: Refer to an article in February Scientific American.  Doris Y Tsao is a professor of biology at California Institute of Technology (Cal Tech).  Her research into brain regions that process faces reveal deep insights into the neural mechanisms of vision. It appears that there is an isolated region of the brain that is exclusively in charge of recognizing faces. The article uses some big words like inferotemporel cortex and anterior medial patch any other words that Silver will understand . Fascinating stuff by a woman who is a leading edge scientist.