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Community => Social Issues and Causes => Topic started by: Arturo on July 12, 2017, 09:53:52 PM

Title: Net Neutrality Is At Risk
Post by: Arturo on July 12, 2017, 09:53:52 PM
This link https://netneutrality.internetassociation.org/action/ Explains it best. The people in Washington, along with the lobbyists (AKA your Internet Service Providers) want to take control of the censorship of the internet. They also want to monitor everything you do. And Trump's people are at the head of it.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-fcc-neutrality-idUSKBN19X268
Quote
Changes to the rule are being proposed by the head of the U.S. Federal Communications Commision (FCC), Ajit Pai, appointed by President Donald Trump in January.

Pai wants the commission to repeal the rules that reclassified internet service providers as if they were utilities, saying the open internet rules adopted under former President Barack Obama harm jobs and investment. The FCC voted 2-1 in May to advance a Republican plan to reverse the "net neutrality" order.

During a speech in April, Pai asked: "Do we want the government to control the internet? Or do we want to embrace the light-touch approach" in place since 1996 until it was revised in 2015.

EDIT: For this video
Title: Re: Net Neutrality Is At Risk
Post by: Davin on July 13, 2017, 03:05:29 PM
The things that pisses me off the most, is that the ISPs have taken public money to provide faster internet service... and failed to provide it. Then Google Fiber comes in and shows that gigabit up and down are possible on the current infrastructure with minimal additions, the infrastructure that we the people have already paid for, and they fight google to prevent google from providing the speeds that the ISPs promised and refused to deliver.

Like most things in the US, we pay 3 times more than other countries for an internet that's ten times slower.

Losing net neutrality will hurt everyone but the ISPs. Well the big ones, the smaller ISPs will be hurt as well.
Title: Re: Net Neutrality Is At Risk
Post by: Arturo on July 13, 2017, 10:26:16 PM
The things that pisses me off the most, is that the ISPs have taken public money to provide faster internet service... and failed to provide it. Then Google Fiber comes in and shows that gigabit up and down are possible on the current infrastructure with minimal additions, the infrastructure that we the people have already paid for, and they fight google to prevent google from providing the speeds that the ISPs promised and refused to deliver.

Like most things in the US, we pay 3 times more than other countries for an internet that's ten times slower.

Losing net neutrality will hurt everyone but the ISPs. Well the big ones, the smaller ISPs will be hurt as well.

I am beginning to suspect that is how all the big corporations do things. Get things in their favor and increase their potential for doing things, and shaft everyone else. Their are better ways of doing things, they just don't want it.

I don't expect the head of the FCC, Pai, to change his mind. If he was going to, the tons of big businesses would have done it so already. People don't hear about this crap on tv media though. They would gladly push people off the internet to get their ratings to rise again. Win-Win in their eyes. But you know who suffers? People like me who don't like t.v. I'd rather be on the internet and be social and commercial free, find people who have my interests instead of sitting and wasting my brain power on the fucking news!

I was going to post this in another thread but the internet has benefited me so much. It's made me a better person in some ways. It put me into a higher potential for betterment than any other thing thus far besides martial arts. And it would just be getting started if it weren't for the corrupt fucking FCC and the damn dictator we have for president - "Let's give hand outs for the rich and make the poor ignore that and think the even more poor don't deserve hand outs. They can get an even harder time every time we help ourselves and make it easier on us. They can think they will get handouts when they are rich like us, but they will never be rich because we keep making it harder and harder. HAHAHAHA I'M AN ASSHOLE!"
Title: Re: Net Neutrality Is At Risk
Post by: Arturo on July 14, 2017, 11:00:35 PM
Update - 2 Million Comments to FCC in support of Net Neutrality

https://www.cnet.com/au/news/net-neutrality-organizer-says-fcc-gets-2-million-comments/
Title: Re: Net Neutrality Is At Risk
Post by: Arturo on July 16, 2017, 02:02:28 AM
Hmm. Yes well it seems there are two big ISPs that own other ISPs. One is AT&T which owns Verizon. The other is Charter Communications which owns xfinity and Time Warner Cable.

Those are the two big ones at least. I don't really see how this move by the FCC will hurt their competition but I do see it as a way to rake in more money than they already have. I would say more than they need but they've already past that point. Just gluttons for money. More money to make things worse. That is not how capitalism is supposed to be (or so they say). Supply and demand doesn't work that way either.
Title: Re: Net Neutrality Is At Risk
Post by: Davin on July 18, 2017, 05:37:42 PM
Capitalism's main mechanism is competition. In over 90% of the US, people have only one option for "high speed" internet. That's not competition and therefor not capitalism.
Title: Re: Net Neutrality Is At Risk
Post by: Arturo on July 20, 2017, 08:54:48 PM
How are they planning to rollback the FCC regulations? Is it by executive order, legislation, is Pai doing it all on his own, or is it some combination or some other method I didn't think of?
Title: Re: Net Neutrality Is At Risk
Post by: Davin on July 20, 2017, 09:03:37 PM
So, they are going to do a similar process to what happened 2 years ago, they will propose new rules.

Now it's not going to just happen. Like what happened before 2 years ago, I think it was about five years ago, the FCC lost to Verizon I think. I hope something like that happens to the new proposal and the courts rule it back to the 2015 classification. However with GOP supreme court pawns, I worry that it will pass and then become ruled on.

There are also long standing rules for the FCC that they can't just change things against the will of the people, that's why they allow the public to comment on it, and also why Pai is ignoring all the pro NN comments.

And also why they lied about the cyber attack.

https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/6odans/fcc_now_says_there_is_no_documented_analysis_of/dkgxguo/

Quote
We caught them red handed -- they claimed 'cyber attack' but we have the uptime reports. We have the connectivity reports (their CDN is Akamai - you can view real time attack data for their network -- if the FCC site was down, a big chunk of the web would have been too). It would have made big news in the IT/networking world if Akamai hiccup'd... since they were able to handle the world's largest DDoS last fall. That got noticed... by, erm, everyone. Network Operations Centers all over the world saw it. Did anyone see the FCC DDoS? crickets

Because moving ISPs to Title I instead of Title II is so unpopular, Pai has to pretend like the dissent is not the actual public being against it.

There have also been 47,000 NN violation complaints made to the FCC since the 2015 classification, that Pai says isn't valid, but won't release them to let people evaluate that claim.

Edit: 47,000 complaints citation: http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/FCC-Refuses-to-Release-47000-Net-Neutrality-Complaints-139977
Title: Re: Net Neutrality Is At Risk
Post by: Firebird on July 20, 2017, 09:10:45 PM

And also why they lied about the cyber attack.

https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/6odans/fcc_now_says_there_is_no_documented_analysis_of/dkgxguo/

Quote
We caught them red handed -- they claimed 'cyber attack' but we have the uptime reports. We have the connectivity reports (their CDN is Akamai - you can view real time attack data for their network -- if the FCC site was down, a big chunk of the web would have been too). It would have made big news in the IT/networking world if Akamai hiccup'd... since they were able to handle the world's largest DDoS last fall. That got noticed... by, erm, everyone. Network Operations Centers all over the world saw it. Did anyone see the FCC DDoS? crickets

Because moving ISPs to Title I instead of Title II is so unpopular, Pai has to pretend like the dissent is not the actual public being against it.

There have also been 47,000 NN violation complaints made to the FCC since the 2015 classification, that Pai says isn't valid, but won't release them to let people evaluate that claim.

I'm not saying they didn't lie about the cyberattack, but that reddit thread has some inaccuracies and does not mean they got caught red-handed. Unfortunately, I can't say much more than that. Most likely their commenting site did crash that day, but it was more likely because of Jon Oliver encouraging his viewers to go comment right before it happened.
Title: Re: Net Neutrality Is At Risk
Post by: Davin on July 20, 2017, 09:18:20 PM

And also why they lied about the cyber attack.

https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/6odans/fcc_now_says_there_is_no_documented_analysis_of/dkgxguo/

Quote
We caught them red handed -- they claimed 'cyber attack' but we have the uptime reports. We have the connectivity reports (their CDN is Akamai - you can view real time attack data for their network -- if the FCC site was down, a big chunk of the web would have been too). It would have made big news in the IT/networking world if Akamai hiccup'd... since they were able to handle the world's largest DDoS last fall. That got noticed... by, erm, everyone. Network Operations Centers all over the world saw it. Did anyone see the FCC DDoS? crickets

Because moving ISPs to Title I instead of Title II is so unpopular, Pai has to pretend like the dissent is not the actual public being against it.

There have also been 47,000 NN violation complaints made to the FCC since the 2015 classification, that Pai says isn't valid, but won't release them to let people evaluate that claim.

I'm not saying they didn't lie about the cyberattack, but that reddit thread has some inaccuracies and does not mean they got caught red-handed. Unfortunately, I can't say much more than that.
That doesn't make any sense. If they were subjected to a DDoS attack, other people would be able to see the traffic. And if they were attacked, why did they not report it to homeland?

Quote from: Firebird
Most likely their commenting site did crash that day, but it was more likely because of Jon Oliver encouraging his viewers to go comment right before it happened.
I have no problem with, "we had a bunch of people try to create comments and the site crashed." The problem I have is the, "these comments are not valid because they are the result of a DDoS attack."

Because as previously stated, Pai is ignoring the real outrage against anti-NN.
Title: Re: Net Neutrality Is At Risk
Post by: Arturo on July 20, 2017, 09:28:46 PM

And also why they lied about the cyber attack.

https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/6odans/fcc_now_says_there_is_no_documented_analysis_of/dkgxguo/

Quote
We caught them red handed -- they claimed 'cyber attack' but we have the uptime reports. We have the connectivity reports (their CDN is Akamai - you can view real time attack data for their network -- if the FCC site was down, a big chunk of the web would have been too). It would have made big news in the IT/networking world if Akamai hiccup'd... since they were able to handle the world's largest DDoS last fall. That got noticed... by, erm, everyone. Network Operations Centers all over the world saw it. Did anyone see the FCC DDoS? crickets

Because moving ISPs to Title I instead of Title II is so unpopular, Pai has to pretend like the dissent is not the actual public being against it.

There have also been 47,000 NN violation complaints made to the FCC since the 2015 classification, that Pai says isn't valid, but won't release them to let people evaluate that claim.

I'm not saying they didn't lie about the cyberattack, but that reddit thread has some inaccuracies and does not mean they got caught red-handed. Unfortunately, I can't say much more than that.
That doesn't make any sense. If they were subjected to a DDoS attack, other people would be able to see the traffic. And if they were attacked, why did they not report it to homeland?

Quote from: Firebird
Most likely their commenting site did crash that day, but it was more likely because of Jon Oliver encouraging his viewers to go comment right before it happened.
I have no problem with, "we had a bunch of people try to create comments and the site crashed." The problem I have is the, "these comments are not valid because they are the result of a DDoS attack."

Because as previously stated, Pai is ignoring the real outrage against anti-NN.

Yes the comments should still be visible even if the site crashed correct?
Title: Re: Net Neutrality Is At Risk
Post by: Davin on July 20, 2017, 09:32:21 PM
Yes the comments should still be visible even if the site crashed correct?
Depends on where and how the comments are stored.

Here's the thing, if they were on the receiving end of a DDoS attack, other people would have seen that traffic pass through their servers on the way to hitting the FCC site. However, by all metrics it looks like all the traffic that hit the FCC were from real people trying to submit legitimate comments.
Title: Re: Net Neutrality Is At Risk
Post by: Firebird on July 20, 2017, 09:53:25 PM
That doesn't make any sense. If they were subjected to a DDoS attack, other people would be able to see the traffic. And if they were attacked, why did they not report it to homeland?

All I mean is don't take the reddit thread as completely accurate proof. I still think Pai was lying about being attacked, but I happen to know why the reddit arguments have flaws, I'm just not allowed to say why.

I have no problem with, "we had a bunch of people try to create comments and the site crashed." The problem I have is the, "these comments are not valid because they are the result of a DDoS attack."

Because as previously stated, Pai is ignoring the real outrage against anti-NN.
Agreed
Title: Re: Net Neutrality Is At Risk
Post by: Davin on July 20, 2017, 09:58:30 PM
That doesn't make any sense. If they were subjected to a DDoS attack, other people would be able to see the traffic. And if they were attacked, why did they not report it to homeland?

All I mean is don't take the reddit thread as completely accurate proof.
Don't take anything as that.

Quote from: Firebird
I still think Pai was lying about being attacked, but I happen to know why the reddit arguments have flaws, I'm just not allowed to say why.
You're saying, "don't completely trust the reddit post with lots of examples and data, but I can't tell you which parts or why." I mean, what am I supposed to do with that?
Title: Re: Net Neutrality Is At Risk
Post by: Arturo on July 20, 2017, 10:00:25 PM
Yes the comments should still be visible even if the site crashed correct?
Depends on where and how the comments are stored.

Here's the thing, if they were on the receiving end of a DDoS attack, other people would have seen that traffic pass through their servers on the way to hitting the FCC site. However, by all metrics it looks like all the traffic that hit the FCC were from real people trying to submit legitimate comments.

My argument is, if the comments were still visible, they should have no reason to deny that they read them or they are not doing there job.
Title: Re: Net Neutrality Is At Risk
Post by: Davin on July 20, 2017, 10:40:50 PM
Yes the comments should still be visible even if the site crashed correct?
Depends on where and how the comments are stored.

Here's the thing, if they were on the receiving end of a DDoS attack, other people would have seen that traffic pass through their servers on the way to hitting the FCC site. However, by all metrics it looks like all the traffic that hit the FCC were from real people trying to submit legitimate comments.

My argument is, if the comments were still visible, they should have no reason to deny that they read them or they are not doing there job.
Oh, yeah, I thought you meant during the time of the crash. Yes afterward and now they can see the comments, DDoS attacks generally only hurt access to a site or bring the server itself down. The data and the site itself are hardly ever affected.

They're argument though is something like this: because those thousands of pro NN comments might be the result of a DDoS attack, that they shouldn't have to consider them valid.

Basically, that the pro NN supporters are so many people, that the only explanation is that we're not real.
Title: Re: Net Neutrality Is At Risk
Post by: Arturo on July 21, 2017, 02:39:00 AM
Yes the comments should still be visible even if the site crashed correct?
Depends on where and how the comments are stored.

Here's the thing, if they were on the receiving end of a DDoS attack, other people would have seen that traffic pass through their servers on the way to hitting the FCC site. However, by all metrics it looks like all the traffic that hit the FCC were from real people trying to submit legitimate comments.

My argument is, if the comments were still visible, they should have no reason to deny that they read them or they are not doing there job.
Oh, yeah, I thought you meant during the time of the crash. Yes afterward and now they can see the comments, DDoS attacks generally only hurt access to a site or bring the server itself down. The data and the site itself are hardly ever affected.

They're argument though is something like this: because those thousands of pro NN comments might be the result of a DDoS attack, that they shouldn't have to consider them valid.

Basically, that the pro NN supporters are so many people, that the only explanation is that we're not real.

That's a very dangerous line of thinking. Especially considering there are so many of us. You can marginalize a small group more effectively than a group as big as 8 million.
Title: Re: Net Neutrality Is At Risk
Post by: Arturo on August 28, 2017, 12:01:23 AM
Does anyone know of a place where I can find out where my Senators stand on Net Neutrality? I live in Michigan in case you forgot.
Title: Re: Net Neutrality Is At Risk
Post by: jumbojak on August 28, 2017, 02:38:44 AM
Send them an email.
Title: Re: Net Neutrality Is At Risk
Post by: Icarus on August 28, 2017, 06:47:12 AM
Your senators will have offices somewhere in your state. Those offices are usually cooperative enough to tell you where your senator stands on whatever subject is at hand.

Get busy on the internet to find their location and phone number.
Title: Re: Net Neutrality Is At Risk
Post by: Arturo on August 28, 2017, 11:34:49 PM
Your senators will have offices somewhere in your state. Those offices are usually cooperative enough to tell you where your senator stands on whatever subject is at hand.

Get busy on the internet to find their location and phone number.

I don't have money to drive all around for that because I'm poor. They have emails and there was a website that showed where everyone stands but I lost the website. If I can get that website, I can find the emails easily.
Title: Re: Net Neutrality Is At Risk
Post by: Icarus on August 29, 2017, 12:38:08 AM
Do you know the names of your senators and your representatives?  If you do, then the offices will be listed on the internet along with telephone numbers and e-mail addresses.  No need to leave home to do some investigations. If you do not know their names you can find that information on the internet also.

Go for it.
Title: Re: Net Neutrality Is At Risk
Post by: Arturo on August 29, 2017, 01:14:14 AM
No I don't know there names. I don't know where any of them stand either when I look them up. It doesn't say anywhere else except on the one website I've been asking for.
Title: Re: Net Neutrality Is At Risk
Post by: Arturo on August 29, 2017, 03:16:45 AM
Found it!

https://www.battleforthenet.com
Title: Re: Net Neutrality Is At Risk
Post by: Arturo on May 16, 2018, 09:15:45 PM
Looks like the Net Neutrality is going to come back maybe. They are still trying to overturn the decision the FCC made.
https://www.cnet.com/news/senate-democrats-win-significant-victory-to-preserve-net-neutrality-rules/
Title: Re: Net Neutrality Is At Risk
Post by: Davin on May 16, 2018, 10:09:41 PM
Yeah, call your reps. Mine are against NN, But I bug them anyway.
Title: Re: Net Neutrality Is At Risk
Post by: Arturo on May 16, 2018, 11:36:41 PM
Yeah, call your reps. Mine are against NN, But I bug them anyway.

I sent them and Ajat a message. (Ajait Pai was being typically sarcastic and didn't give but one response that said "You're Welcome" or some stupid shit like that. At least when I do it, I mean it.) Anyways, most of mine are against the FCC decision, but it gets different when you get to party lines. The Reps. are against the FCC decision, but want to set up new regulations by working with whoever is in charge of it now. Which is a dumb move in my mind because if you don't agree with the decision why not just over turn it like the Dems. want to do? And I can actually have a conversation with the Dems. via email but the Reps. don't want that so I can send an email, but I get a message back from another email that I can't reply to. So it's like that suggestion box that nobody ever reads.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/3orieT6T4sVcNCpfEs/giphy.gif)
(http://www.hwdyk.com/q/images/whenflandersfailed_09.jpg)
Title: Re: Net Neutrality Is At Risk
Post by: Old Seer on May 17, 2018, 01:00:42 PM
Update - 2 Million Comments to FCC in support of Net Neutrality

https://www.cnet.com/au/news/net-neutrality-organizer-says-fcc-gets-2-million-comments/
Can one expect we have a fascist system now. Looks like corporations have become government.
Title: Re: Net Neutrality Is At Risk
Post by: Arturo on May 17, 2018, 04:08:11 PM
Update - 2 Million Comments to FCC in support of Net Neutrality

https://www.cnet.com/au/news/net-neutrality-organizer-says-fcc-gets-2-million-comments/
Can one expect we have a fascist system now. Looks like corporations have become government.

It's been like that for a long time actually. This is just the first time it went public because of the internet spreading information so fast and freely. That's why we cannot let them get away with censorship.
Title: Re: Net Neutrality Is At Risk
Post by: Arturo on June 08, 2018, 10:53:32 PM
Thinking this thread should probably go into the politics section now since it mostly considers politics at this point.

Looks like Ajit Pai was found to be actually lying about the DDoS attacks that were supposed to have messed with the voting for or against the repeal of Net Neutrality. And it also looks like he is walking into a corruption scandal of his own with AT&T and Michael Cohen. The very same Michael Cohen that is, or was Trump's lawyer. It's very strange that this lawyer is kind of at the centerfold of everything.
Title: Re: Net Neutrality Is At Risk
Post by: Davin on June 11, 2018, 03:21:42 PM
Thinking this thread should probably go into the politics section now since it mostly considers politics at this point.

Looks like Ajit Pai was found to be actually lying about the DDoS attacks that were supposed to have messed with the voting for or against the repeal of Net Neutrality. And it also looks like he is walking into a corruption scandal of his own with AT&T and Michael Cohen. The very same Michael Cohen that is, or was Trump's lawyer. It's very strange that this lawyer is kind of at the centerfold of everything.
Yeah, looks like there is no corner of this administration that is not fraught with corruption. Many saw it before, but a good portion of people are not allowing themselves to see it.
Title: Re: Net Neutrality Is At Risk
Post by: Arturo on June 11, 2018, 04:54:16 PM
It seems like this cause is officially dead anyways. Ajit Pai & AT&T won this. The fight isn't over, but the regulations are.
Title: Re: Net Neutrality Is At Risk
Post by: Davin on June 11, 2018, 05:21:37 PM
Can't win every battle, but we have to try every time.