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General => History => Topic started by: Tank on June 17, 2012, 05:27:35 PM

Title: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
Post by: Tank on June 17, 2012, 05:27:35 PM
Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist (http://phys.org/news/2012-06-bones-bulgaria-john-baptist.html)

Quote
Scientists have found new evidence they say supports the theory that a knuckle bone and other human remains found under a church floor in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist.

The relics found in a small marble sarcophagus two years ago on a Bulgarian island called Sveti Ivan, which translates as Saint John, also included a human tooth, part of a skull and three animal bones.

A research team from Oxford University dated the right-handed knuckle bone to the first century AD, when John is believed to have lived until his beheading ordered by king Herod, the university said in a statement.

And scientists from the University of Copenhagen analysed the DNA of the bones, finding they came from a single individual, probably a man, from a family in the modern-day Middle East, where John would have lived.

While these findings do not definitively prove anything, they also don't refute the theory first proffered by the Bulgarian archaeologists who found the remains while excavating under an ancient church on the island.

Many sites around the world claim to hold relics of the saint, including the Grand Mosque in Damascus which says it has his head.

The right hand with which the prophet allegedly baptised Jesus in the River Jordan is also claimed to be held by several entities, including a Serbian Orthodox monastery in Montenegro.

"The result from the metacarpal hand bone is clearly consistent with someone who lived in the early first century AD," Oxford University professor Tom Higham said of the new study...

An interesting article.
Title: Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
Post by: OldGit on June 17, 2012, 06:12:35 PM
Well, it seems to have come from approximately the right part of the world and from vaguely the right period, so of course it must be the hand that baptised Jesus.  How can we doubt any longer?  I'm off to get baptised.
Title: Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
Post by: Crow on June 17, 2012, 07:21:10 PM
How is an article like that even featured on phys.org.
Title: Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
Post by: Asmodean on June 17, 2012, 07:39:40 PM
Well, it seems to have come from approximately the right part of the world and from vaguely the right period, so of course it must be the hand that baptised Jesus.  How can we doubt any longer?  I'm off to get baptised.
Baptised by some random Bulgarian's skeletal remains... Nice!  :D
Title: Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
Post by: Stevil on June 17, 2012, 08:05:02 PM
Quote
Scientists have found new evidence they say supports the theory that a knuckle bone and other human remains found under a church floor in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist.
What kind of scientists are these? Christian fanatic pseudo scientists?
Title: Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
Post by: markmcdaniel on June 17, 2012, 08:32:33 PM
Well, it seems to have come from approximately the right part of the world and from vaguely the right period, so of course it must be the hand that baptised Jesus.  How can we doubt any longer?  I'm off to get baptised.
Its a relic so it must be real. We all know that nobody would fake a relic and sell it to the Church. Why this would be wrong. Besides the bones were probably male.
Title: Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
Post by: Ecurb Noselrub on June 17, 2012, 08:58:39 PM
Quote
Scientists have found new evidence they say supports the theory that a knuckle bone and other human remains found under a church floor in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist.
What kind of scientists are these? Christian fanatic pseudo scientists?

"Supports" is a pretty broad word.  The evidence could have negated the claim - the bones could have been Chinese or from 200 years ago or from multiple people.  "Supports" can mean it just is "consistent with."
Title: Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
Post by: Stevil on June 17, 2012, 10:21:30 PM
Quote
Scientists have found new evidence they say supports the theory that a knuckle bone and other human remains found under a church floor in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist.
What kind of scientists are these? Christian fanatic pseudo scientists?

"Supports" is a pretty broad word.  The evidence could have negated the claim - the bones could have been Chinese or from 200 years ago or from multiple people.  "Supports" can mean it just is "consistent with."
It would be more honest to state that the evidence doesn't discount the possibility assuming JtB existed and lived 2,000 years ago in the Middle East. Although it doesn't distinguish between any other middle eastern males whom lived 2,000 years ago as well (presumably there was more than one)

Its pretty rubbish evidence don't you think?
Title: Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
Post by: Ecurb Noselrub on June 17, 2012, 10:24:52 PM

Its pretty rubbish evidence don't you think?

I would have to say that it is hardly newsworthy.
Title: Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
Post by: Sandra Craft on June 18, 2012, 01:28:51 AM

Its pretty rubbish evidence don't you think?

I would have to say that it is hardly newsworthy.

This reminds me of that flap a few years back over the supposed finding of Jesus' burial site and bones.  I remember somebody saying they could prove it with DNA tests.  Don't you need something to compare that with to made a positive ID?  No matter which side it comes from, it seems like desperate stretching.
Title: Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
Post by: xSilverPhinx on June 18, 2012, 02:10:10 AM

Its pretty rubbish evidence don't you think?

I would have to say that it is hardly newsworthy.

This reminds me of that flap a few years back over the supposed finding of Jesus' burial site and bones.  I remember somebody saying they could prove it with DNA tests.  Don't you need something to compare that with to made a positive ID?  No matter which side it comes from, it seems like desperate stretching.

Yeah, at most you can probably say that the DNA is from around a certain region if you have a group of people from that region that have lived there for a couple of millenia or more.
Title: Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
Post by: The Magic Pudding on June 18, 2012, 03:10:50 AM
This claim is bullshit, I know because I have John's skull and I use it as a candle holder while performing my darkest rites.  I got it off Ebay and it came with a certificate and everything.
Title: Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
Post by: Stevil on June 18, 2012, 04:35:39 AM

Its pretty rubbish evidence don't you think?

I would have to say that it is hardly newsworthy.

This reminds me of that flap a few years back over the supposed finding of Jesus' burial site and bones.  I remember somebody saying they could prove it with DNA tests.  Don't you need something to compare that with to made a positive ID?  No matter which side it comes from, it seems like desperate stretching.

Yeah, at most you can probably say that the DNA is from around a certain region if you have a group of people from that region that have lived there for a couple of millenia or more.
The Catholics have Eucharist miracles, basically preserved blood and flesh, which they believe could be Jesus ???. These are all AB blood type supposedly.
DNA testing all this stuff, could show whether it comes from the same person, could work out the gender, race, any genetic issues, presumably Jesus would have perfect DNA ??? if he is without sin.

Its all BS of course but at least it could disprove some of this gory junk that people worship.
Title: Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
Post by: xSilverPhinx on June 18, 2012, 05:18:25 AM

Its pretty rubbish evidence don't you think?

I would have to say that it is hardly newsworthy.

This reminds me of that flap a few years back over the supposed finding of Jesus' burial site and bones.  I remember somebody saying they could prove it with DNA tests.  Don't you need something to compare that with to made a positive ID?  No matter which side it comes from, it seems like desperate stretching.

Yeah, at most you can probably say that the DNA is from around a certain region if you have a group of people from that region that have lived there for a couple of millenia or more.
The Catholics have Eucharist miracles, basically preserved blood and flesh, which they believe could be Jesus ???. These are all AB blood type supposedly.
DNA testing all this stuff, could show whether it comes from the same person, could work out the gender, race, any genetic issues, presumably Jesus would have perfect DNA ??? if he is without sin.

Its all BS of course but at least it could disprove some of this gory junk that people worship.

But...BUT! The real question is, if he's born of a virgin, where did he get his Y chromossome from? ???

And don't get me started on the Eucharist miracles, you see the Jesus and fork in my sig, right? ;D
Title: Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
Post by: xSilverPhinx on June 18, 2012, 05:21:45 AM
This claim is bullshit, I know because I have John's skull and I use it as a candle holder while performing my darkest rites.  I got it off Ebay and it came with a certificate and everything.

This can't be, I got the geniune skull with the certificate and everything! They assured me that it was genuine...and I have the certificate to prove it.
Title: Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
Post by: The Magic Pudding on June 18, 2012, 06:01:18 AM
This claim is bullshit, I know because I have John's skull and I use it as a candle holder while performing my darkest rites.  I got it off Ebay and it came with a certificate and everything.

This can't be, I got the geniune skull with the certificate and everything! They assured me that it was genuine...and I have the certificate to prove it.

Ha, they saw you coming.
Title: Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
Post by: OldGit on June 18, 2012, 09:34:43 AM
Was there by any chance a serial number on your skulls and certificates?
Title: Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
Post by: xSilverPhinx on June 18, 2012, 02:23:09 PM
Was there by any chance a serial number on your skulls and certificates?

There's no serial number, not that I can see at least. There are some markings that read 'Made in China', however. Could it mean anything? ???
Title: Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
Post by: DeterminedJuliet on June 18, 2012, 02:57:35 PM
The only fair thing to do to make custody arrangements for the skull. Puddin', you can have the skull Monday-Fridays and SP, you get it on the weekends. And no fighting in front of the skull, you must think of its best interests.
Title: Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
Post by: Ali on June 18, 2012, 04:05:08 PM
^^^ "And no fighting in front of the skull...." Bahahahahahaha

I'm happy to know what happened to John's skull.  I have his left hand and part of his left arm.  Makes a lovely back scratcher.
Title: Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
Post by: Stevil on June 18, 2012, 06:19:28 PM
You guys are missing the point.
It's John's right hand that is special.
If you use it to push people under water then miraculously they end up wet.
Would be very useful for pet owners that are having trouble bathing their cats.
Title: Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
Post by: Firebird on June 18, 2012, 06:29:04 PM
Well, I just used the john and baptised it when I flushed. Can I sell that on ebay now?
Title: Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
Post by: Asmodean on June 18, 2012, 07:14:11 PM
Could it mean anything? ???
Are there bullet holes? Because that would just indicate the cleverness of the Chinese prison system when it comes to raising coin.  :D
Title: Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
Post by: Buddy on June 18, 2012, 07:19:19 PM
Pft, I have his ribcage. That way I can both scar and contain the little monsters that I babysit.
Title: Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
Post by: OldGit on June 18, 2012, 07:45:50 PM
Quote from: Stevil
You guys are missing the point.
It's John's right hand that is special.
If you use it to push people under water then miraculously they end up wet.
Would be very useful for pet owners that are having trouble bathing their cats.

(http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu198/RamblingSyd/Laughing_RoflSmileyLJ.gif)
Title: Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
Post by: markmcdaniel on June 19, 2012, 01:51:32 AM
I have his legs. They were cheaper than new prosthetics. However, I seem to be having trouble using them to walk. JtB seems to have walked with a decided list to port. Now that I look at them I can see that they are both left legs JtB had two left legs right. I know that they are genuine the markings on the legs says that they are. The markings say Genuine Religious Relic Product Of The Middle East. 
Title: Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
Post by: Stevil on June 19, 2012, 01:56:59 AM
Now that I look at them I can see that they are both left legs 
I'm not surprised, he isn't famous for his dancing, thus two left legs is just more substantial evidence that it MUST be him.
Title: Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
Post by: xSilverPhinx on June 19, 2012, 01:58:24 AM
Could it mean anything? ???
Are there bullet holes? Because that would just indicate the cleverness of the Chinese prison system when it comes to raising coin.  :D

There are, but they assured me that that's where his soul left the body after he died. It's what I believe, so of course it's true.

I have something that looks like a finger or it could be a mummified turd (difficult to tell the difference, especially in such an old specimen)...don't want it though, don't know where it's been. ???
Title: Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
Post by: Sandra Craft on June 19, 2012, 02:17:50 AM
Well, I just used the john and baptised it when I flushed. Can I sell that on ebay now?

Go for it!
Title: Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
Post by: xSilverPhinx on June 19, 2012, 02:20:50 AM
Well, I just used the john and baptised it when I flushed. Can I sell that on ebay now?

Go for it!

*Eyes the finger-ish relic warily.*
Title: Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
Post by: Ecurb Noselrub on June 19, 2012, 03:49:18 AM
John ate locusts and wild honey, and wore camel skins. First, if the bones are real, you should find some locust droppings, bee droppings, and camel hair/droppings somewhere, I think.  Second, can you imagine what a horrible Valentine's Day date John would have been?

John: What's this place?

Date: This is a restaurant, John.

John: What do you do here - I hate cities.

Date: You eat here, John.  What would you like for an appetizer?

John:  Locusts. Raw locusts.

Date:  Eewww!  Don't you even want them dipped in chocolate?

John: What's chocolate?  They're pretty good in honey.

Waiter:  Sir, I'm sorry, we require a coat and tie in this restaurant.

John:  Well, you have a coat and tie on - that should satisfy you.

Waiter: No, sir, you do not meet our dress code.  In fact, I'm not sure you are even dressed at all.

John:  Woe to you, you serpent, you hypocrite!  The axe is laid to the root of the tree!  You shall be smitten with the rod!

Date:  Oh, no, not the rod again!

Security: Sir, you will have to leave now.

John: And you, you whited wall, you son of Satan, you will burn in the fires of hell!

Security:  Sir, that's a terroristic threat. (Takes out a steak knife and cuts John's head off).

Waiter: Thanks.  I was going to have a hard time finding any locusts.

Date:  Well, he wouldn't have left a tip, anyway.

Title: Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
Post by: Amicale on June 19, 2012, 04:52:08 AM
Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist (http://phys.org/news/2012-06-bones-bulgaria-john-baptist.html)

*snip*

An interesting article.

Very interesting! Not because I think it's John the Baptist that they've found per se, but the amateur historian in me absolutely loves any news having to do with new finds. I think this is certainly newsworthy. If random human bones were found in, say, New York City and were proven to be about 2,000 years old, it would certainly make the news and a lot of people would find it interesting. I find this discovery interesting, too. Even if it's a totally unknown human we've found a small part of, finding bones that old isn't exactly an everyday occurrence. :)
Title: Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
Post by: fester30 on June 19, 2012, 07:52:00 AM

While these findings do not definitively prove anything, they also don't refute the theory first proffered by the Bulgarian archaeologists who found the remains while excavating under an ancient church on the island.

An interesting article.

So you can't prove it, but you also can't disprove it.  Guess I'm agnostic on the subject.

The way the article reads, it doesn't sound like the scientists are actually suggesting it's John the Baptist.  Sounds like they found remains on a Saint John island and dated it from the 1st century, and that the DNA suggests Middle Eastern descent.  Looks like it's the author of the article suggesting it's John the Baptist, even linking the work of the scientists with research of some Oxford historian.  The author of the article appears to me to be pulling a Glenn Beck with the information.
Title: Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
Post by: Ali on June 19, 2012, 05:35:20 PM
Now that I look at them I can see that they are both left legs 
I'm not surprised, he isn't famous for his dancing, thus two left legs is just more substantial evidence that it MUST be him.

So THIS must be why Baptists aren't allowed to dance.  JtB was a terrible dancer, so he told everybody that dancing is a sin anyway.   Typical.  >:(
Title: Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
Post by: Sandra Craft on June 20, 2012, 02:32:58 AM

While these findings do not definitively prove anything, they also don't refute the theory first proffered by the Bulgarian archaeologists who found the remains while excavating under an ancient church on the island.

An interesting article.

So you can't prove it, but you also can't disprove it.  Guess I'm agnostic on the subject.

But is disproving even an issue?  I can't disprove unicorns but it's my understanding that I'm under no obligation to, my friend who believes they're real has to prove that if she decides to claim her belief is a fact.  Wouldn't the same rule apply here?
Title: Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
Post by: xSilverPhinx on June 20, 2012, 03:43:00 AM
I think that if someone tells you that the burden is on you to disprove their claim, they're setting you up to fail. You can either agree with them or make the opposite claim, that is that unicorns don't exist. You would then have to prove your opposing claim, and to do so would have to search the entire universe and not find any unicorns.

Title: Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
Post by: The Magic Pudding on June 20, 2012, 03:59:57 AM
You would then have to prove your opposing claim, and to do so would have to search the entire universe and not find any unicorns.

You'd have to search the universe instantaneously because it may move to a previously searched place, or just behind you.  Unicorn could also be wearing camouflage pyjamas, so to do a proper search you'd need to have a camouflage pyjama detector.
Title: Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
Post by: Sandra Craft on June 20, 2012, 04:18:42 AM
You'd have to search the universe instantaneously because it may move to a previously searched place, or just behind you.  Unicorn could also be wearing camouflage pyjamas, so to do a proper search you'd need to have a camouflage pyjama detector.

Those damn unicorns can be so tricky.
Title: Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
Post by: Stevil on June 20, 2012, 06:34:44 AM
You'd have to search the universe instantaneously because it may move to a previously searched place, or just behind you.  Unicorn could also be wearing camouflage pyjamas, so to do a proper search you'd need to have a camouflage pyjama detector.

Those damn unicorns can be so tricky.
How big are they?
Maybe you need an electron microsope to see them, with a comouflage pyjama filter installed of course.
It might take a while to scan the universe with an electron microscope, so I suggest you use two of them then you will halve your search time.
Now that is thinking, huh?
You need answers, you know where to come.
Title: Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
Post by: Hector Valdez on June 20, 2012, 06:37:29 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't jolly ol john fed to lions after his beheading? WTF?
Title: Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
Post by: fester30 on June 20, 2012, 07:43:32 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't jolly ol john fed to lions after his beheading? WTF?

What the article didn't mention is that they found traces of fossilized lion feces as well.  What some archaeologists believe is John's grave was actually the lion enclosure at an ancient zoo.

As for proving/not-proving... I have seen on here often that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.  I don't really believe in extraordinary evidence.  I believe all evidence is evidence.  I understand some evidence is held in higher regard than others (eye-witness vs. measurements).  Once a claim is made, however, I don't necessarily believe the burden of proof is on the claimant.  I think it depends upon how much others care about the topic.  I think sometimes it's in the best interests of people who didn't make a claim and don't have much confidence in that claim to find evidence one way or another.  Science is full of skeptical people trying to reproduce results to find the facts.  In the case of unicorns or gods, I wouldn't particularly care to even try.  But in the case of remains potentially belonging to an historical figure, I might find it interesting enough to get involved in if I were an archaeologist.
Title: Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
Post by: markmcdaniel on June 20, 2012, 07:53:11 AM
The problem with Unicorns is that you need to be a virgin, preferable female and adolescent, in order to find one. This may well explain the lack of reliable Unicorn sightings. Now, the true test for finding imaginary creatures is Dragons. Of course if you find one you me wind up being invited to lunch.
Title: Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
Post by: OldGit on June 20, 2012, 10:59:26 AM
Will you lot please show some respect for The Invisible Pink Unicorn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invisible_Pink_Unicorn), bless Her Holy Hooves.

Next to the FSM She is my favourite deity.

Quote
Invisible Pink Unicorns are beings of great spiritual power. We know this because they are capable of being invisible and pink at the same time. Like all religions, the Faith of the Invisible Pink Unicorns is based upon both logic and faith. We have faith that they are pink; we logically know that they are invisible because we can't see them
Title: Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
Post by: Sandra Craft on June 20, 2012, 03:42:40 PM
Once a claim is made, however, I don't necessarily believe the burden of proof is on the claimant.  I think it depends upon how much others care about the topic. 

I have to disagree with that.  I think anyone who goes so far as to make a claim is the one who needs to back it up or withdraw it.  Otherwise you're just asking other people to do your work for you and that right there would make me suspect the claims value.
Title: Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
Post by: Ecurb Noselrub on June 20, 2012, 04:45:22 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't jolly ol john fed to lions after his beheading? WTF?

In the gospel account his disciples buried his body.  Don't know if there is another account.
Title: Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
Post by: fester30 on June 20, 2012, 06:14:20 PM
Once a claim is made, however, I don't necessarily believe the burden of proof is on the claimant.  I think it depends upon how much others care about the topic. 

I have to disagree with that.  I think anyone who goes so far as to make a claim is the one who needs to back it up or withdraw it.  Otherwise you're just asking other people to do your work for you and that right there would make me suspect the claims value.

The burden of proof is on whomever cares enough about the claim to introduce it into the realm of science vs. non science.  I don't think it's that black and white.  Sometimes claims come about and even gain popularity that have no scientific basis, such as attacks to climate change theory.  If scientists who know that ignoring climate change could be disasterous just stay silent against those who claim climate change isn't happening, then they risk the public and policy makers also ignoring climate change.  Or how about the claim about a particle traveling faster than light?  If we just put the burden of proof on the claimant, he may offer what he says is proof, and then we'd just accept it, instead of reproducing the experiments to see if we get the same result.
Title: Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
Post by: Sandra Craft on June 21, 2012, 01:22:16 AM
The burden of proof is on whomever cares enough about the claim to introduce it into the realm of science vs. non science.  I don't think it's that black and white.  Sometimes claims come about and even gain popularity that have no scientific basis, such as attacks to climate change theory.  If scientists who know that ignoring climate change could be disasterous just stay silent against those who claim climate change isn't happening, then they risk the public and policy makers also ignoring climate change.  Or how about the claim about a particle traveling faster than light?  If we just put the burden of proof on the claimant, he may offer what he says is proof, and then we'd just accept it, instead of reproducing the experiments to see if we get the same result.

But isn't that part of confirming the claim -- other people testing it and questionning it and trying to find flaws or get different results?  I don't see that putting the burden of proof on the claimant is going to change that.  Testing and disputing is still going to happen but that doesn't relieve the original claimant of presenting the evidence for why he's saying "this is a fact".
Title: Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
Post by: xSilverPhinx on June 21, 2012, 02:21:22 AM
By saying "this is a fact", the person making the claim is saying that they've found the unicorn. The burden is on them to prove that they did, not on someone else to prove that they didn't.
Title: Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
Post by: Sweetdeath on June 21, 2012, 07:02:41 AM
The problem with Unicorns is that you need to be a virgin, preferable female and adolescent, in order to find one. This may well explain the lack of reliable Unicorn sightings. Now, the true test for finding imaginary creatures is Dragons. Of course if you find one you me wind up being invited to lunch.
King Arthur (or..prince back in season 1) was able to see unicorns.

And you guys can see me...right? Right?   >:(
Title: Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
Post by: markmcdaniel on June 21, 2012, 07:24:23 AM
The problem with Unicorns is that you need to be a virgin, preferable female and adolescent, in order to find one. This may well explain the lack of reliable Unicorn sightings. Now, the true test for finding imaginary creatures is Dragons. Of course if you find one you me wind up being invited to lunch.
King Arthur (or..prince back in season 1) was able to see unicorns.

And you guys can see me...right? Right?   >:(
You and King Arthur are the exceptions that prove the rule.
Title: Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
Post by: markmcdaniel on June 21, 2012, 07:30:38 AM
By saying "this is a fact", the person making the claim is saying that they've found the unicorn. The burden is on them to prove that they did, not on someone else to prove that they didn't.
You are correct in saying that the discoverer is responsible for providing the evidence that constitutes their proof. But, it is the responsibility to confirm the validity of this proof.
Title: Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
Post by: fester30 on June 21, 2012, 08:38:36 AM
I just think it's lazy and potentially dangerous to dismiss claims because the claimant has not presented sufficient evidence, especially when a claim can be debunked.  You never know what kind of following that claimant can build who might believe his nonsense. 
Title: Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
Post by: Asmodean on June 21, 2012, 09:16:26 AM
You and King Arthur are the exceptions that prove the rule.
Exceptions don't prove any rules - they are, after all, exceptions.

And Who was you talking to? There is no-one there!  ???


 ;D
Title: Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
Post by: Stevil on June 21, 2012, 10:18:50 AM
I just think it's lazy and potentially dangerous to dismiss claims because the claimant has not presented sufficient evidence
You can't investigate all claims people make, there are just way too many. Certainly hard to investigate something that is supposedly unobservable.
Title: Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
Post by: mp29 on June 21, 2012, 06:00:30 PM
 This seems like quite a stretch to say those bones are his. However; his bones may be out there somewhere. John The Baptist was probably a real person. He's mentioned in Jewish Antiquities by Josephus, though the reason for his execution differs from Biblical accounts.
Title: Re: Bones in Bulgaria may be of John the Baptist
Post by: Sweetdeath on June 21, 2012, 06:22:21 PM
You and King Arthur are the exceptions that prove the rule.
Exceptions don't prove any rules - they are, after all, exceptions.

And Who was you talking to? There is no-one there!  ???


 ;D


:p <3