Hello Everyone; Introducing myself

[philonous]

Like most you I am an Atheist, and I decided to be an Atheist at the age of 20; However I gave up my faith before I became an Atheist at the age of 17, because I use to be perplexed and unsatisfied with my religion (Christianity). My big problem at the time was whether one has any evidential/epistemological basis to believe one is saved other than that of faith. I realized that one cannot really know, but merely believe, so I gave up Christianity since I wasn't satisfied with the primitive theology atonement that most Christians subscribed to. At this time I was a Deist, but I also expressed some agnostic opinions. I was about to reconsider Christianity at the age of 19-20, but when I begin to study philosophy to explore the theistic notion of the nature of God, I eventually begin to realize how incoherent it was; If God is incorporeal (not spatial), immaterial, timeless (not temporal), then how can God perform an action that supervenes on a spatio-temporal reality? In this sense God's transcendence seemed in conflict with his immanence (intervening in human and natural history) So my biggest problem was the inconsistency between imannence and transcendence. My reading of the bible also reinforce doubts about Christianity, since there were many examples of God endorsing atrocities; one example that I found so repugnant was when God allowed men to chop off a woman's hand because she accidentally touched the man's private parts while she was trying to stop two men from fighting. I found this to be so repugnant that I discarded the bible immediately (other examples such as the death of first born children due to Pharaoh's stubborn disobedience, and God taking the life of Ezekiel's wife just to make her a symbolic example of Israel, were kinds of biblical examples that made me question the claim that the bible is the source of morality, and the claim that God is moral). 

My other problem was the anthropomorphism of God that is prevalent in Christianity, and other monotheistic religions. If God transcends reality, then God is the opposite Other to all the traits or characterizations of reality, which also includes human traits/characterization. If this is true then our language, which is naturally geared towards describing this reality, then how can we speak of God? What I found out is that most people talk about God as if God is *like* them (though more superior), that God is goals, emotions, plans, values, prejudices, relationships, judgments etc. People begin to see God resembling father/grandfather figures from the vantage point of their culture. People, then, begin to treat God as a superhuman who resembles them and yet is  greater than them. From the philosophical perspective this makes little sense, since this view God is not by strict definition Transcendent.

I also realized that postulating the existence and meaning of God implicitly/explicitly entails the demand for evidence; Since God is understood, in theism, to be a transcendent agent who acts supervenes and intervenes on both natural and human history, and natural history, and occasionally human history, are observable, testable, and falsifiable, then at least the effects of such acts should be observable. If this is the case then God would be a satisfying explanation for natural and human phenomena. The problem is that because there is a lack of evidence, there is little or no reason to accept this hypothetical explanation as a useful explanation.

Due to these insights, I realized that, at least for me, there is little rational basis to believe that there must be a God. There could be an emotional basis, but an emotional basis is hardly a basis for Truth. I also realized that people who believe in God because of divine revelation embodied in the bible are committing circular reasoning, since divine revelation already assumes the existence of God. So the theological, scientific, and philosophical basis for God, in my opinion, are weak (if not lacking).

However through these experiences I begin to develop anger and bitterness towards Christianity, and i find it very difficult to let these emotions go. It's like...going through the great moments of life, but waking up realizing that these moments were an illusion. I'm not exactly sure why I'm angry about Christianity (more or less the socially conservative domains of Christianity), but I always find myself experiencing strong aversions whenever people bring up "God" "Sexual Morality" "Sin" etc. I always find myself experiencing strong contempt for people who invest so much of their time living a "Christian" upbringing that involves abstinence from "impurities". I experience so much of these emotions that I find it difficult to "respect" their religion anymore.

I guess that's why I joined because I want to know if what I experience is "normal" among many atheists. Do you guys ever experience these feelings around theists? I sometimes wish I didn't have these experiences because I want to be indifferent to them. By the way, my family and friends are almost always Christians, I have very few Atheist friends (I have one Atheist and one Agnostic friend). I hope any replies would be helpful. Anyways, I'm not here to argue with anyone, but merely discuss about any feelings we have about religions, not to preach about them but to sort of see why we have them in the first place...

[xSilverPhinx]

Welcome! You would have to reach 10 posts before you can contribute to any other section of this forum other than the 'getting to know you' area, and discuss these things in more depth.

I feel mostly frustration at theists. Getting too involved in these things is draining, and rather extreme (and I admit, sometimes unwarranted) irritation is inevitable.

[The Magic Pudding]

there were many examples of God endorsing atrocities;

God still seems to be on the wrong side of things, contraception, science and gays for instance.
We seem to be able to advance and drop WRONG ideas like the servitude of woman, but it's always a battle.
God may have been an influence for good once but I think he's had his day.  
I thought we were in the process of scarping him off our shoes years ago, but he's still stuck in all the grooves and tread.
Yes he can be very annoying at times, his remnants should be banished to comedy skits where they belong.


I forgot to say hello, damn god for making me forget civility.

Hello

[Tank]

Hello philonous

Thank you for taking the time to create an interesting and carefully thought-out introduction. As xSilverPhinx pointed out we have a 10 post rule before we get into deep discussions outside the Getting to Know You area.

One thing I will say is that in my experience of atheists who post on English language forums is that about half are 'innate atheists' who have never been a believer of any kind, so they don't suffer from the de-conversion angst that can affect ex-theists. Of the ex-theists the majority are ex-catholics, most of the rest of the ex-theists are some shade of protestant and there is a smattering of ex-muslims and ex-jews. At a pure estimation 80% of ex-theists exhibit/experience some sort of back-lash and de-conversion angst from having been mislead by people whom they trusted. And of course the degree of that back-lash varies greatly from individual to individual. So I don't think your feelings are unusual at all, although you may just be a little high on the angst scale.

Welcome to HAF.

Regards
Chris

[Recusant]

Hello and welcome to HAF, philonous. I think that it's fairly common for those who have lost or managed to escape their religion to feel anger and bitterness toward religion, and in some cases the religious. I know that I certainly did. It took me many years to (mostly) lose that as well, primarily because I didn't see any need to let go of the anger and bitterness. Eventually I accepted that religion provides some measure of comfort to those who hold it.  On the other hand, it can help to reinforce the negative prejudices of religious people, not to mention the fact that some of them are persuaded by their belief to do real harm in the world, so I'll never believe that religion is a good thing overall. Still, while negative emotions like anger can be a strong motivator, generally they don't do the one who is subject to them much good. I think that in the long run, holding on to anger and bitterness only detracts from the quality of your own life. "Living well is the best revenge." Easier said than done, but my advice would be to try to keep it in mind.

I hope you enjoy your time reading and posting here.