A discussion on homosexuality.

[DeterminedJuliet]

I like the chart 

[Stevil]

Slightly off topic, but St Matthew-In-The-City does it again.
I'm starting to like this outfit, they've got balls!
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10735885

[Willow]

But our society considers homosexuality unmanly so young men are discouraged from exploring it.  Yet our society considers female homosexuality attractive so they are encouraged...and they do (girls gone wild etc).

I argue that society does not encourage female homosexuality.

I have yet to meet a lesbian who thinks their sexuality as socially encouraged.  Most porn depictions of lesbian sex have nothing to do with what lesbians really do or look like,  and men faced with an actual sexual encounter between women, in my experience, just feel excluded and threatened.

Female homosexuality is socially unacceptable because it threatens to usurp the gender hierarchy.

[hismikeness]

Female homosexuality is socially unacceptable because it threatens to usurp the gender hierarchy.

This^

Most porn depictions of lesbian sex have nothing to do with what lesbians really do or look like,

I think heterosexual and homosexual women are portrayed vastly different in porn, yet they are equally as wrong in their depictions as well. I seriously doubt there are model worthy buxom blondes willing to do some of the things they do on film. Not that I've ever seen any...

I am curious though, if lesbian sex isn't as depicted on screen, what is it? Forgive my ignorance, but how different could it be besides they obvious differences found in all pornography?

[Sweetdeath]

But our society considers homosexuality unmanly so young men are discouraged from exploring it.  Yet our society considers female homosexuality attractive so they are encouraged...and they do (girls gone wild etc).

I argue that society does not encourage female homosexuality.

I have yet to meet a lesbian who thinks their sexuality as socially encouraged.  Most porn depictions of lesbian sex have nothing to do with what lesbians really do or look like,  and men faced with an actual sexual encounter between women, in my experience, just feel excluded and threatened.

Female homosexuality is socially unacceptable because it threatens to usurp the gender hierarchy.

I agree with Willow. As someone who is a lesbian, it's extremely offensive to say pornography and girls gone wild promotes female homosexuality.  It does the opposite; it hurts our credibility. A lot of people don't take lesbians seriously, and even rudely say it is a phase.  Sadly, a lot of girls will do "lesbian" things such as do a threesome with their boyfriend and a female to "turn on" their boyfriend. I am only sexually attractive to females and the thought of  sex with a man really disturbs me. I actually envy the fact that people take gay men very seriously, but gay women kind of get pushed aside  or laughed at....

It can be extremely hurtful. I've actually had a guy say to me that he can make a lesbian "straight again" if they slept with him. I've had people not take me seriously, even though I have been happily with my girlfriend for three years.


So anyone who supports any fake lesbian media like GGW pisses me off.

[hismikeness]

It can be extremely hurtful. I've actually had a guy say to me that he can make a lesbian "straight again" if they slept with him.

Sounds like Banky from Chasing Amy.

[The Magic Pudding]

I've had people not take me seriously, even though I have been happily with my girlfriend for three years.

I enjoy strong progressive female politicians putting conservative idiots in their place.
This is Penny Wong, she is very cool.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHeDD9tnFw4

I hope things are getting better, I don't think an openly gay female would have been elected twenty years ago, though dark age throwbacks haven't gone away.

[Sweetdeath]

It can be extremely hurtful. I've actually had a guy say to me that he can make a lesbian "straight again" if they slept with him.

Sounds like Banky from Chasing Amy.

What is that? A t.v show? o_o

[hismikeness]

It can be extremely hurtful. I've actually had a guy say to me that he can make a lesbian "straight again" if they slept with him.

Sounds like Banky from Chasing Amy.

What is that? A t.v show? o_o

It's a movie.

[Sweetdeath]

Well, i've never heard of it, and believe it or not, some guys think a lesbian is just a girl who hasn't slept with the "right"  guy.
My uncle thinks that way as well.
It's ridiculous.

And guys have hit on me, asking for my numver, even afrer I say "i'm not into men..." Or "i have a girlfriend."

Seriously, this is like , me trying to refill metro card  at the metro/subway. ~__~
So, i'm actually not sure sure why you brought up some movie. Do ypu think i'm making this b.s up? This is my life. I don't lie about my crappy encounters in life.

[Davin]

Banky as I saw him, was the character used to represent the common misrepresentations as a way for the other characters to show how wrong those common misconceptions are using witty pop culture infused dialog. So I don't think hismikeness was intending to discredit you especially not through a movie reference, but to make reference to a character that represents the nexus of bad information and strongly held opinion.

At least that's how I took his reference to Banky from Chasing Amy.

When I was younger I had a friend who was a lesbian, I know the encounters you've talked about do happen and can vary from humorous to frustrating. I always find people not getting something very clearly put to them as frustrating especially when the assumption is that they know me better than I know myself (after just meeting me).

[Twentythree]

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/natural-history-the-modern-mind/200906/the-johnny-depp-effect-evolutionary-explanation-homosexu


This is an interesting article kind of short. It's about a tipping point in sexual success based on feminized female traits in men. I find many flaws in this reasoning. The article states that more sensitive and attractive men will have more partners and be better fathers. However, I know plenty of women who don't prefer feminine looking men. I also know of at least a few pretty good looking men, that are terrible fathers. It's an interesting read just in that it reminds us of how far science has to go to explain complex evolutionary phenotypic expressions like sexual preference. It's also interesting that it is an article in Psychology today showing the growing trend for all scientific disciplines to converge on natural selection and evolution as a means of gaining deeper insight into the most complex of human behaviors.

http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/271/1554/2217.full.pdf

This is another interesting yet a bit older study on homosexuality and family. The odd thing to me is that there is no empirical way as of yet to determine if someone is gay. Can people be intellectually gay but not biologically gay, an entanglement of the two or neither? I think that without being able to securely determine the participants sexual preference with testable evidence the study loses some credibility. I am interested in the notion that homosexuality could be a genetic fail-safe for population control and some of the findings in this report speak to that. Things like increased likelihood of homosexuality with each successive son in maternal lines of pedigree. But I'm still not convinced. What is convincing though are all the links being made to the heredity and possible chromosomal transmission of homosexuality. There may not be a "gay" gene, but evidence is clearly supporting the notion that homosexuality is not implicitly a choice.

[Stevil]

I don't think it actually matters, whether it is nature or nurture.
From a scientific standpoint it could be interesting to know.

But from a viewpoint of acceptance it doesn't matter. People don't need my permission with regards to whom they fall in love with or whom they have sex with.

[hismikeness]

I don't think hismikeness was intending to discredit you especially not through a movie reference, but to make reference to a character that represents the nexus of bad information and strongly held opinion.

Davin- nailed it. That is exactly why I referenced Banky.
Sweetdeath, please believe that I was in no way trying to insult you, call you a liar, or accusing you af anything. If it came off that way I apologize. In hindsight, it may have not been the right kind of thread to reference that character as he was indeed very anti-lesbian (Banky, I mean). The movie is about a guy who falls for a girl, discovers she's gay, and decides to try and win her over and "turn" her straight. I assumed it to be popular enough that perhaps you'd seen it, or at least heard of it. If you like any Kevin Smith movies (Mallrats, Dogma, anything with Jay and Silent Bob) you'd know most of his characters are over the top stereotypes, and Banky is no exception.

Anyway, he says a line about gay women that is analogous to what you wrote before I mentioned the character.

I wasn't meaning to be a prick, if I came off that way.

Also, what is o_o and ~_~? are these emoticons?

[xSilverPhinx]

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/natural-history-the-modern-mind/200906/the-johnny-depp-effect-evolutionary-explanation-homosexu


This is an interesting article kind of short. It's about a tipping point in sexual success based on feminized female traits in men. I find many flaws in this reasoning. The article states that more sensitive and attractive men will have more partners and be better fathers. However, I know plenty of women who don't prefer feminine looking men. I also know of at least a few pretty good looking men, that are terrible fathers. It's an interesting read just in that it reminds us of how far science has to go to explain complex evolutionary phenotypic expressions like sexual preference. It's also interesting that it is an article in Psychology today showing the growing trend for all scientific disciplines to converge on natural selection and evolution as a means of gaining deeper insight into the most complex of human behaviors.

I'm speculating here but I think that's exactly it. Sensitive and empathic men are seen as more likely to be good fathers and mates, though I think it falls within the broader spectrum of traits which might be seen as what makes either good fathers, good mates or good protectors (I think a preference for less empathetic and even violent men falls here).