'Stop feminising our schools - our boys are suffering'

[Dretlin]

'Stop feminising our schools - our boys are suffering'

I do not think in the UK it is no mystery that girls out perform boys. Yet in the 1950s, it was the complete opposite. Do you think the public/private schools are trying to teach boys like girls?

If that is the case then its no surprise boys are under achieving. Has our educational system in the UK completely neglected how our boys develop and jeopardising their future?

[notself]

If the schools were teaching the boys to be like girls then the girls wouldn't be out performing the boys, they would be performing equally.

[Dretlin]

If the schools were teaching the boys to be like girls then the girls wouldn't be out performing the boys, they would be performing equally.

That would be true if girls and boys were the same - which they are not. From what I have seen boys and girls generally prosper in different teaching environments.

[Asmodean]

That would be true if girls and boys were the same - which they are not. From what I have seen boys and girls generally prosper in different teaching environments.

We are different physically and mentally. Personally, I think equating man to woman is just as much bullshit as trying to assign one gender's worth above the other.

[Tank]

I don't read the Daily Fail but she has got it virtually spot on! My wife got her PhD doing research into Rough & Tumble play in early years. This 'feminisation' of education is a diabolical issue in the UK. Men just don't want to risk being called a pedo for one thing and kids just know they can say it and it has to be investigated. They often don't understand the seriousness of what they say but the damage is done by then.

During my wife's research it became blindingly obvious that 'female' behaviour (relatively passive (read quiet) and cooperative) was perceived as good while 'male' behaviour (relatively active (read noisy) and competitive) was perceived as bad. With the lack of male teachers to understand male play behaviour and act as roll models boys grow up continually oppressed and told they are wrong and bad. With the number of single families on the increase the only constant male roll model in a boy's life could well be their school teachers.

It is equally true that the current education system does not do the best for either gender it's just that it currently suits female traits better than male traits while in days gone by the reverse was the case. Education isn't education any more, it's training. In the old days you'd get if A is this and B is that what happens next? Nowadays it's if A is this and B is that then C results, write that down and remember it. My wife works in higher education now and she sees an 'answer expectant' audience almost all the time. One of her students actually complained about her and her complaint was and I quote "She tries to make me think harder." FFS that's her bloody job you moron!!  :upset:  :upset:

[Dretlin]

I agree with you Tank. And I had no idea your probably the most informed on this subject here!    

Did you wife do any other research related to this subject?

[The Magic Pudding]

I don't read the Daily Fail but she has got it virtually spot on! My wife got her PhD doing research into Rough & Tumble play in early years. This 'feminisation' of education is a diabolical issue in the UK. Men just don't want to risk being called a pedo for one thing and kids just know they can say it and it has to be investigated. They often don't understand the seriousness of what they say but the damage is done by then.

I realy hate, the whole pedo thing.
What could more insidious than painting male teachers as likely sex offenders?
When I was ten, I got a new sister, she was cute, I loved her and looked after her.
I like young children, they bring a smile to my frowny face, and I want to protect them.
What an ugly shame it is when those who take joy in caring for the young are regarded with suspicion.

But a responsible parent should be suspicious.
Ah what to do?

[Dretlin]

I don't read the Daily Fail but she has got it virtually spot on! My wife got her PhD doing research into Rough & Tumble play in early years. This 'feminisation' of education is a diabolical issue in the UK. Men just don't want to risk being called a pedo for one thing and kids just know they can say it and it has to be investigated. They often don't understand the seriousness of what they say but the damage is done by then.

I realy hate, the whole pedo thing.
What could more insidious than painting male teachers as likely sex offenders?
When I was ten, I got a new sister, she was cute, I loved her and looked after her.
I like young children, they bring a smile to my frowny face, and I want to protect them.
What an ugly shame it is when those who take joy in caring for the young are regarded with suspicion.

But a responsible parent should be suspicious.
Ah what to do?

My two nephews came up from Cornwall for a wedding several months ago. I really enjoyed the time I had with them and I care for them very much. A memory I have already become fond of was helping them with their Kilts, as they had not worn one before.

It does sometimes feel men who care for children are looked on with suspicion. When I apply that to my nephews, it makes me sick. I am the only male in my household and have been so for most of my life, I was desperate to give them someone to look up to, since I have never quite had that.

[The Magic Pudding]

It does sometimes feel men who care for children are looked on with suspicion. When I apply that to my nephews, it makes me sick. I am the only male in my household and have been so for most of my life, I was desperate to give them someone to look up to, since I have never quite had that.

I don't know many things but I wish you well.

[Tank]

I agree with you Tank. And I had no idea your probably the most informed on this subject here!    

Did you wife do any other research related to this subject?

She did her PhD research and then kept up with the subject. She has made significant contributions (multiple chapters) in three books now and has had some articles published. Some have even been translated into Chinese! She met Ed Balls (Minister for Education during the Labour government) at a few meetings when there were discussions about early childhood development. She is awaiting the Lib/Con mob to get their act together and will be seeing them as well, Michael Gove is the new kid on the block. She is relatively hopeful that the new mob will be an improvement on the old lot. Only time will tell. For reasons of privacy I won't be giving details of my wife's work directly.

[Intercourseman72]

Are schools becoming more feminine or are girls performing better for some other reason while boys either are doing comparatively worse and still doing about the same or actually declining overall?

I never attended a school during the 50s, but as far as I can tell, the schools are functionally identical now as they were in the mid to late 19th century. You have the form of pedagogy, students are to sit in a room, obey commands from an authority figures, complete assignments exclusively given from teachers who receive the curriculum elsewhere, they have bowels regulated by authority figures and are controlled in just about every conceivable way by the schools now just how they were in the 50s. If anything, kids have a little more freedom now. I would think that during the 50s (you know, the times where in the US at least it was declared constitutional for schools to literally force kids to pledge to the flag with under god recently added) were even more repressive and would try to quell the energetic nature of young boys (girls as well) in much more draconian ways.

Since the 50s, however, families have probably been more supportive of girls both in school and in work. While the schools themselves are institutionally inert to any major change, the societies around the do change. I am not saying this is why girls now are doing better in schools, just positing some other ideas.

With all that aside, I think any possible feminizing of boys should be the least of concerns given the magnitude and latitude of damage public schools do to children and their mental and even physical development.

[Dretlin]

Are schools becoming more feminine or are girls performing better for some other reason while boys either are doing comparatively worse and still doing about the same or actually declining overall?

I never attended a school during the 50s, but as far as I can tell, the schools are functionally identical now as they were in the mid to late 19th century. You have the form of pedagogy, students are to sit in a room, obey commands from an authority figures, complete assignments exclusively given from teachers who receive the curriculum elsewhere, they have bowels regulated by authority figures and are controlled in just about every conceivable way by the schools now just how they were in the 50s. If anything, kids have a little more freedom now. I would think that during the 50s (you know, the times where in the US at least it was declared constitutional for schools to literally force kids to pledge to the flag with under god recently added) were even more repressive and would try to quell the energetic nature of young boys (girls as well) in much more draconian ways.

Since the 50s, however, families have probably been more supportive of girls both in school and in work. While the schools themselves are institutionally inert to any major change, the societies around the do change. I am not saying this is why girls now are doing better in schools, just positing some other ideas.

With all that aside, I think any possible feminizing of boys should be the least of concerns given the magnitude and latitude of damage public schools do to children and their mental and even physical development.

I do not think in the UK it is no mystery that girls out perform boys.

Has our educational system in the UK completely neglected how our boys develop and jeopardising their future?

[notself]

Do public schools in the UK (private schools in the US) provide a better environment for boys?

[Intercourseman72]

I am perfectly well aware that the article was specified toward schools In the UK and not the US. Despite having attended a public school, I know the difference between an "S" and a "K". However, the issues and questions I raise are just as relevant in the UK as they are in the US. With similar cultures (fairly similar. yes, i know they aren't identical), similar changes in society since the 50s, the same functional structure of schooling, etc, we can find similar trends in schooling.

check out this article. http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/fem-schools.html Btw, i think you might enlightened to know that Rush Limbaugh likes to touch on this subject as well.

It's not strictly a British phenomenon. The issue is being raised in other counties as well. And I don't think it's out of the question to consider that the basic structure of public schools will do this.

Anyways, I still raise my main point that schools have likely not declined in their quality of educating boys. It is likely just as bad, if not better, as it was during the 50s. I am supposing that there is a possibility that girls, given the proper social environment, do better than boys because they are better at sitting and being quite than boys but aren't as condescended to or oppressed as they were in the 50s.

[SSY]

I think it is certainly true that all boys schools as opposed to mixed allow boys to learn in a more effective manner. I certainly note a marked difference in my friends experience of education depending on which type of school they went to.