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(Split Topic) What would it take for you (a creationist) to...

Started by Happy Christian, October 27, 2009, 04:20:58 PM

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Recusant

First, thank you Happy Christian, for telling us a little about yourself.  It's helpful to know something about the person one is talking with.  If you care to, you can read my  post in the Introductions section of this forum.  It was the second post I made here.

Quote from: "Happy Christian"Well it would be awesome if it actually had something to do with Christianity...

I think that the blurb LoneMateria quotes actually is more applicable to Christianity than yours is to atheism.  I'm a tad disappointed that a luminary who boasts an IQ of 151 would introduce himself with such an inaccurate and feeble jibe.  If you had come up with it yourself, I suppose there might be at least the excuse of originality.  Do you happen to be the author of that infamous blurb?

 
Quote from: "Happy Christian"As for Atheism not being a religion Buddhists are Atheists so presumably Buddhism isn't a religion?

This, coming from one who prides himself on logic, is once again a little disappointing.  Much too simplistic, as well as being an error of generalization.  Some Buddhists are atheist.  Indeed there are some who feel that Buddhism is more of a philosophical approach to life than a religion.  On the other hand, as you may or may not know, there are several schools of Buddhism which have a whole pantheon, and do qualify under any definition of religion.  The fact is, however, that even a purely atheist form of Buddhism could be rightly considered as a religion.  From the Merriam-Webster definition of religion, part 1b(2): "commitment or devotion to religious faith or observance."  (Emphasis mine.)
 
 Atheism itself however, does not qualify as a religion under any definition you may choose.  By some tortured reading of current definitions of religion, I suppose one might (incorrectly) construe atheism  to be a religion.  And though I suppose one could construct a definition of religion that would include atheism, one might be hard put to get the rest of the world to agree with such a definition.

Finally, I would respectfully ask you once again, Happy Christian; why did you come to this forum?  I won't ask again, and if you prefer not to say, that's just fine.  I'm merely curious.
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
— H. L. Mencken


Happy Christian

Quote from: "Whitney"
Quote from: "Happy Christian"As for Atheism not being a religion Buddhists are Atheists so presumably Buddhism isn't a religion?

Don't try to pretend like you have an IQ of 151 then use the above poor logic.  Hint of the problem by example:  All cats are animals but not all animals are cats.

Try reading the news whitney!!

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=45874

Whitney

Quote from: "Happy Christian"
Quote from: "Whitney"
Quote from: "Happy Christian"As for Atheism not being a religion Buddhists are Atheists so presumably Buddhism isn't a religion?

Don't try to pretend like you have an IQ of 151 then use the above poor logic.  Hint of the problem by example:  All cats are animals but not all animals are cats.

Try reading the news whitney!!

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=45874

Nice dodge, but your previous logic is still faulty.  

However the decision of one state court doesn't change the definition of a word; esp. not internationally.

Not to mention that I didn't say I took exception to atheism being a religion....It would be a huge stretch of what the word religion is intended to describe since atheist is a lack of belief rather than a belief in something.  But, whatever, it does make it easier to argue our rights under separation of church and state.

LoneMateria

Quote from: "Happy Christian"Thanks for the advice but to be honest you're about as far from the truth as it could possibly be.

Really can you define Genetic Drift, or do you know what species Lucy is, or what a Phenotype is, o what Phylogenetics is?  If you need to do a google search then you proved my point.

Quote from: "Happy Christian"I have an IQ of 151, a degree in astrophysics (albeit a long time ago!!) and my wife is college lecturer with a degree in general biology and a doctorate in biochemistry.

So because you have a 151 IQ (which I don't believe but lets say for the sake of argument you do) and an astrophysics degree (again I don't believe it but I will grant it to you for the sake of argument) and because your WIFE has a biology degree and a biochemistry degree that makes you an expert in evolution?  Because of those things you apparently have the credentials to be a "expert" in this field along with any other you choose am I right?  What a poor argument and this is the crappy arguments I see anti-evolution theists use all the time.  Because you have a degree with a long name or someone else does doesn't make you or them an expert on that subject unless they hold a real degree in that field of study.  Also because you have said degree you (or they) try to pass it off as the person with this degree is infallible on this subject.  Um... no it doesn't work like that sorry.

By the way for someone with a 151 IQ it sure took you a while to figure out the quote feature.

Quote from: "Happy Christian"Far from me simply agreeing with what my pastor says I insist on thinking for myself which is actually how I became a Christian in the first place. I wont give you the full story its too long but my doubts began when I read the excellent book, "The Facts of Life - Shattering the Myths of Darwinism" by Richard Milton.

That doesn't tell me much and that doesn't tell me how you thought for yourself.  And when I look up Richard Milton his profile ruins any possible credit he had with me when I see words like, advocates Homeopathy.  However the quote from an actual biologist on that book makes me laugh:

The Facts of Life was reviewed by Oxford biologist Richard Dawkins, who described it as "twaddle that betrays, on almost every page, complete and total pig-ignorance of the subject at hand"

Anyway reading his wiki page makes Milton a fucking joke.  I really hope you didn't build your belief on this foundation.  If you did you obviously aren't using your supposedly superior brain you are trying to brag about.

Quote from: "Happy Christian"A particularly good book as Richard Milton at the time was not a Christian or Theist of any type but described himself as agnostic.

I guess thats better then what Christians today do to sell books.  They are Christians but say they were atheists to sell books.  ^_^

QuoteI've read numerous other books on the subject since then (Christian and Atheist) and to be truthful the more I read the more convinced I become that neither the origin of the universe or life itself is anywhere near being explained by science and belief in God is more logical and fulfilling.

Science doesn't claim to explain everything or that it will be able to explain everything.  You gotta remember our science has only been around for a few hundred years and religion has had thousands of years to spread its lies.  God is by no means more logical but I will admit it will make you feel better if you are insecure.  I'm sorry an all powerful deity magically bringing himself into existence to create a universe for humans that is 99.9% uninhabitable for them is crazy every day of the week.  Its simpler then trying to understand what is really going on.  Its always simpler to say magic man did it then to really look at evolution, genetics, modern medicine (oh yeah that's right we wouldn't have modern medicine if we didn't understand evolution ... guess your pastor forgot to include that one) and so on.  

I always like bringing up medicine when I talk about evolution because germs evolve so treatments always change.  Why do you suppose that fetuses in the womb grow hair all over their body and then shed it before they are born?  Or why we have an appendix, a useless organ that all it does is explode and kill people or it does nothing and sits there?


Quote from: "Happy Christian"As you so kindly recommended that I read "Evolution for Dummies" let me recommend one for you, "The Case for a Creator" by Lee Strobel.

Its a good informative book thats why I recommended it.  I've seen quite a bit by Lee Strobel and I can tell you right now that book will be full of crap.  I've heard Lee's arguments for a creator (not nearly as funny as Ray Comfort's banana ... nor as ironic in its ignorance) before and I was unimpressed then and I doubt I will be now.
Quote from: "Richard Lederer"There once was a time when all people believed in God and the church ruled. This time was called the Dark Ages
Quote from: "Demosthenes"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true.
Quote from: "Oscar Wilde"Truth, in matters of religion, is simpl

Will

Quote from: "Happy Christian"Thanks for the advice but to be honest you're about as far from the truth as it could possibly be.
You've not demonstrated a working knowledge of evolution with what you've posted so far. Can you blame members of an atheist forum, that gets plenty of AnswersInGenesis trolls every week, for being skeptical? In your first post, you mistook atheism as a belief in the big bang and biological evolution, instead of its actual meaning (which I posted above).
Quote from: "Happy Christian"I have an IQ of 151,
Your IQ is 107. Whitney, LoneMateria, Recusant, Squid, SSY, and karadan are all between about 130 and 145. Mine is around 135ish. Renegnicat' the smartest of all, not getting involved in this train wreck. There are maybe a few thousand people on the planet with IQs above 150, and I'm afraid you're not one of them. Oddly enough, most people with higher IQs are able to figure out that the IQ test is a horrible way to measure overall intelligence.

Still, a round of applause for the rest of us for all being very bright to gifted.  :headbang:
I want bad people to look forward to and celebrate the day I die, because if they don't, I'm not living up to my potential.

nikkmichalski

Quote from: "Squid"Now it's time to look up "false dichotomy".

Just link him over to http://www.fallacyfiles.org/ and have him give us a call when he's done reading.
Ford: "It's unpleasantly like being drunk."
Arthur: "What's so unpleasant about being drunk?"
Ford: "You ask a glass of water." -- Douglas Adams, H2G2
"'Why is it you never mentioned any of this before the plane crash?'...'I didn't think the time was ripe.' " [emphasis delightfully Vonnegut's] -- Kurt Vonnegut, Slaughterhouse-5

SSY

Quote from: "Happy Christian"Well it would be awesome if it actually had something to do with Christianity

You sir have a keen sense of irony. Also, degree in Astro? Where from?

QuoteWhy do you suppose that fetuses in the womb grow hair all over their body and then shed it before they are born?

Could you cite this LoneMateria? I have had a Google and could not find it, and asked one of my medic friends (lots of embryology courses) and he had never heard of it. I am of course not doubting you, but I have always been curious about this after hearing it from Hitchens, and it fits well with the tail we grow and lose, but would obviously like a citation.

Edit; found it  http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/05/07 ... naked_ape/ , My search fu is weak.

While we're editing, Will, I thought there would be more people over 145 than that, the CIVIQ high IQ society accept people over 145, which they say is the top 0.13%, or 7.8 Million people, are we using different tests? Is there a standard one used for this purpose?
Quote from: "Godschild"SSY: You are fairly smart and to think I thought you were a few fries short of a happy meal.
Quote from: "Godschild"explain to them how and why you decided to be athiest and take the consequences that come along with it
Quote from: "Aedus"Unlike atheists, I'm not an angry prick

Justme

Hi to all,

newly registerd, first post. English is my second language, so I apologize in advance for all the errors I'll make.

Many years ago I made an IQ-Test that gave me 105 "points". No reason for suicide, but not that much either. Then, some years later, came a turn for the better. I made a second Test with 115 this time. So in summery I have an IQ of 220!!! Quite bright, huh?

(And maybe that's the technic to get so high IQs as sometimes claimed by people who are obviously not that smart.)

---

Quote from: "Recusant"Atheism repudiates magic.  If an atheist doesn't know exactly how something happened, then they'll say so.  You will search in vain for an atheist who believes that there is any such thing as magic.

I disagree on that. Atheism is the lack of believe in a god or gods, but not the lack of believe in any supernatural nonsense. And so you'll find all sorts of moderate or simply crazy believes in various supernatural powers - astrology, vampires, witches, magic of any sort, kind-of-holy-or-whatever-energy ... you name it ..., though no believe in a god or gods. And if atheists don't know how something happened, they say so, or find excuses, or stumble around, or make up something, or think to know without research and are stupidily wrong ... you name it ..., but wouldn't come up with a god or gods to explain stuff. Atheists are no uniform beings beside the, well, Atheism.
... or maybe it's just me ...

[size=85](English is my second language, so I apologize precautionally for all the errors I maybe made.)[/size]

Whitney

Quote from: "Justme"Many years ago I made an IQ-Test that gave me 105 "points". No reason for suicide, but not that much either. Then, some years later, came a turn for the better. I made a second Test with 115 this time. So in summery I have an IQ of 220!!! Quite bright, huh?

(And maybe that's the technic to get so high IQs as sometimes claimed by people who are obviously not that smart.)

 roflol

(Welcome to HAF)

nikkmichalski

This whole thread is like on The Discovery Channel when they air those fights between Spiders and Scorpions.
Ford: "It's unpleasantly like being drunk."
Arthur: "What's so unpleasant about being drunk?"
Ford: "You ask a glass of water." -- Douglas Adams, H2G2
"'Why is it you never mentioned any of this before the plane crash?'...'I didn't think the time was ripe.' " [emphasis delightfully Vonnegut's] -- Kurt Vonnegut, Slaughterhouse-5

SSY

You should read the thread started by "YoungBlackSmart", the chap who estimated he had an IQ of 200 or thereabouts, now that was a fun thread. When reading about people like this, it puts into perspective just how insane he was.
Quote from: "Godschild"SSY: You are fairly smart and to think I thought you were a few fries short of a happy meal.
Quote from: "Godschild"explain to them how and why you decided to be athiest and take the consequences that come along with it
Quote from: "Aedus"Unlike atheists, I'm not an angry prick

LoneMateria

Quote from: "SSY"
QuoteWhy do you suppose that fetuses in the womb grow hair all over their body and then shed it before they are born?

Could you cite this LoneMateria? I have had a lol or it was covered in one of Dawkin's books that I mentioned.

I did a search too to look for this and its difficult information to find.  Your search fu wasn't bad ... either that or mine sucked too lol
Quote from: "Richard Lederer"There once was a time when all people believed in God and the church ruled. This time was called the Dark Ages
Quote from: "Demosthenes"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true.
Quote from: "Oscar Wilde"Truth, in matters of religion, is simpl

Whitney

Quote from: "SSY"You should read the thread started by "YoungBlackSmart", the chap who estimated he had an IQ of 200 or thereabouts,

When I saw Happy Christian post his IQ, the first thing I did was make sure it wasn't YoungBlackSmart's sock puppet (well, I looked for an IP match, any idiot can figure out how to use a proxie).

Recusant

Quote from: "Justme"
Quote from: "Recusant"Atheism repudiates magic. If an atheist doesn't know exactly how something happened, then they'll say so. You will search in vain for an atheist who believes that there is any such thing as magic.


I disagree on that. Atheism is the lack of believe in a god or gods, but not the lack of believe in any supernatural nonsense.

Hello and welcome, Justme. :sigh:
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
— H. L. Mencken


karadan

Quote from: "Happy Christian"
Quote from: "karadan"
Quote from: "LoneMateria"Oh and that poor argument you used can be applied to your own god ^_^.  

(Christianity) …the belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree… makes perfect sense.?  

Awesome. :)

Well it would be awesome if it actually had something to do with Christianity instead of sounding like the plot from a bad b-movie! As for Atheism not being a religion Buddhists are Atheists so presumably Buddhism isn't a religion?

The reason i said it was awesome was because LoneMateria trivialised christianity the same way you trivialised atheism. It was beautifully incongruous, i thought.
QuoteI find it mistifying that in this age of information, some people still deny the scientific history of our existence.