Author Topic: I am afraid, and I've got a question about Christian "visions" of hell  (Read 569 times)

Father Bruno

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Re: I am afraid, and I've got a question about Christian "visions" of hell
« Reply #15 on: April 03, 2017, 12:58:04 AM »
I don't believe that you are really scared. I smell a hidden agenda here.

I think i smell the same agenda as you Hermes,  the force must be strong with us.

This is a typical type of proselytizing,  I wouldn't be surprised if what we smell isn't Ray Comfort himself.
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Dave

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Re: I am afraid, and I've got a question about Christian "visions" of hell
« Reply #16 on: April 03, 2017, 01:05:49 AM »
To be honest, I wouldn't believe in hell, but these videos touch a nerve. I just don't know how to explain them assuming the people who apparently "saw" hell are not lying

Firstly, stop watching these kinds of videos! If you find you cannot do this seek help.

As has been said, each person sees the variety of hell they have been programmed to, thus "hell" is in tbeir mind. If they are telling the truth about some kind of experience they are suffering hallucinations or something like  "night terror", a sleep/dream disorder where it is difficult to distinguish between dream (usually bad) and reality..

I have suffered both night terrors (befire my heart attack) and been very close to death (after my heart attack). My concious rejection of religion st an early age posdibly meant that there was no recognisable "religious content" in my night terror. Yes, one can remember them and my, more rational, concious mind dismissed them as figments of the unconcious, indicators of an underlying problem.

Mangs, you have not told us of your own background. Your chosen handle could be either ironic or an indicator of interest in fantasy - care to tell us which?

I actually came from a Christian background. I totally believed it, until I was a teen, went to a museum and learned about evolution. After that, I started to realize that so many of these "religious" explanations are bogus, and scientific rational explanations are more sufficient. I was young at the time, and I thought the bible was bogus too. I was kind of excited to think that I might be on to something (debunking religion) and I was a bit rebellious, so I jumped on the atheist bandwagon. Although I did honestly have doubts, and I did really believe what science told me. I was about 85-90% there, and I guess out of excitement, the idea that there isn't some being watching over me judging my every move, I was happy to identify as an atheist. However, a friend of mine a few months later sent me all these Near Death Experience videos of atheists seeing hell such as Howard Storm, Ian mcormick, Don Brubaker. Then, videos of Mulsims seeing Jesus in NDEs and going to hell, and I guess my whole childhood fear got reactivated, and now I worry, what if it is true. I don't just want to go back into religion, as that doesn't seem rational, but I don't know if hell exists, so I am kind of on some sideline, not knowing what to do.

You are on a cusp thst many people find thdmselves on, Manga, torn between the remains of things learned, maybe inculcated, at a impressionable age and a new view of the universe gained at an age when the mind is somewhat less "flexible".

Luckily for me for I saw the enlightenment at about age 10, still young enough to have a plastic mind.

There may be others in a similar position, maybe there is a group out there. For now all I can offer is that you seek that with which you feel most comfortable.

Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.

BooksCatsEtc

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Re: I am afraid, and I've got a question about Christian "visions" of hell
« Reply #17 on: April 03, 2017, 02:43:26 AM »
To be honest, I wouldn't believe in hell, but these videos touch a nerve. I just don't know how to explain them assuming the people who apparently "saw" hell are not lying

A person can be telling the truth as they understand it and still be wrong.  The mind plays all sorts of tricks on us, even in the best of circumstances.  That's why eye witness reports of things as ordinary as traffic accidents are so unreliable.

Ok, I know that it is irrational, but these videos of reverends saying they saw hell scares me, as it could potentially be true.

Valhalla could also potentially be true, but just as I'm not going to spend any time worrying about not getting into Valhalla I'm also not going to spend any time worrying about getting sent to Hell. 

To take this out of the realm of fantasy, it's potentially true that I could suffer an aneurysm in the next 10 minutes and be just plain dead.  No Valhalla, no Hell, just dead, which is disagreeable enough on its own.  I'm not wasting time worrying about that either, even tho I know that, unlike Valhalla or Hell, aneurysms are unquestionably real.  Some ideas just aren't worth the time or trouble it takes to entertain them.
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Pasta Chick

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Re: I am afraid, and I've got a question about Christian "visions" of hell
« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2017, 07:42:53 AM »
Ok, I know that it is irrational, but these videos of reverends saying they saw hell scares me, as it could potentially be true.

Seems as though a reverend with a YouTucbe Channel may have a massive ulterior motive for convincing people to believe in hell...

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Re: I am afraid, and I've got a question about Christian "visions" of hell
« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2017, 09:37:34 AM »
Ok, I know that it is irrational, but these videos of reverends saying they saw hell scares me, as it could potentially be true.

Seems as though a reverend with a YouTucbe Channel may have a massive ulterior motive for convincing people to believe in hell...

Hell exists? Oh well.
But, uh...well there it is.
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Dave

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Re: I am afraid, and I've got a question about Christian "visions" of hell
« Reply #20 on: April 03, 2017, 10:05:58 AM »
Ok, I know that it is irrational, but these videos of reverends saying they saw hell scares me, as it could potentially be true.

Seems as though a reverend with a YouTucbe Channel may have a massive ulterior motive for convincing people to believe in hell...
Sounds like a reverend with a Youtube channel is another manifestation of hell!
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Father Bruno

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Re: I am afraid, and I've got a question about Christian "visions" of hell
« Reply #21 on: April 03, 2017, 10:14:59 AM »
Ok, I know that it is irrational, but these videos of reverends saying they saw hell scares me, as it could potentially be true.

Seems as though a reverend with a YouTucbe Channel may have a massive ulterior motive for convincing people to believe in hell...

Hell exists? Oh well.

Yes indeed it does, but no worries Arturo it's not like what was is commonly described in some of these YouTube NDE's being discussed here, or the NDE that was described in the other thread (Christian or fake NDE's).

I've been reading NDE's that happen to Muslim's, and hell in the Muslim faith is typically a temporary experience for those sinners or even non-believers like us. A place to be purged and sanctified before being allowed into heaven.

In fact one NDE I read about involved a man named Hamza Yusuf and upon his near-death he actually met the Prophet Muhammad  (PBUH) who instructed him to go back to this life and correct his ways so he could avoid the purging of his soul, but the Prophet (PBUH) did also tell him as it is outlined in the Quran that even the unbeliever or the atheist will have a chance to redeem his soul even after death.

So don't worry about it, we is good.
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Dragonia

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Re: I am afraid, and I've got a question about Christian "visions" of hell
« Reply #22 on: April 03, 2017, 10:17:09 AM »
Manga, I believe you, because I believe that Christianity's foundation isn't love or worship of God or hope or whatever. The main foundation of Christianity is fear. Without fear, they have nothing. And I know how powerful and gripping fear can be, especially when it seeps in from childhood.
So, if you were to learn that the hell that is mentioned in the Bible isn't the Hell that we have been raised to believe in, would it make a difference to your fear? It made all the difference to me. It started when I read a book called Love Wins, by Rob Bell, a Christian author. I recommend this book to people who are struggling with fear stemming from Christian teachings. (Brainwashing)
The main point is that every single place in the Bible that mentions the word Hell, has been translated from one of 3 different languages: Aramaic, Hebrew and Greek. And the people to whom these passages were written, understood a literal place that these words were talking about. Sheol, Gehenna and Hades. These 3 words have all been translated to the one umbrella word: Hell. But they were never meant to refer to what we think of as Hell today.
So even if you're questioning the Bible, you can be assured that there is no Hell to be afraid of. Put your energy into understanding the original meanings of "hell" and your fear may just dissipate on its own.
As far as the "visions" in the videos, i agree with Velma, BooksCatsEtc, and Pasta Chick.
Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle. ~ Plato (?)

hermes2015

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Re: I am afraid, and I've got a question about Christian "visions" of hell
« Reply #23 on: April 03, 2017, 10:29:04 AM »
Hell exists? Oh well.

You better believe it. According to Jean-Paul Sartre Hell is other people.

Father Bruno

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Re: I am afraid, and I've got a question about Christian "visions" of hell
« Reply #24 on: April 03, 2017, 11:32:37 AM »
Manga, I believe you, because I believe that Christianity's foundation isn't love or worship of God or hope or whatever. The main foundation of Christianity is fear. Without fear, they have nothing. And I know how powerful and gripping fear can be, especially when it seeps in from childhood.
So, if you were to learn that the hell that is mentioned in the Bible isn't the Hell that we have been raised to believe in, would it make a difference to your fear? It made all the difference to me. It started when I read a book called Love Wins, by Rob Bell, a Christian author. I recommend this book to people who are struggling with fear stemming from Christian teachings. (Brainwashing)
The main point is that every single place in the Bible that mentions the word Hell, has been translated from one of 3 different languages: Aramaic, Hebrew and Greek. And the people to whom these passages were written, understood a literal place that these words were talking about. Sheol, Gehenna and Hades. These 3 words have all been translated to the one umbrella word: Hell. But they were never meant to refer to what we think of as Hell today.
So even if you're questioning the Bible, you can be assured that there is no Hell to be afraid of. Put your energy into understanding the original meanings of "hell" and your fear may just dissipate on its own.
As far as the "visions" in the videos, i agree with Velma, BooksCatsEtc, and Pasta Chick.

I read "Velvet Elvis: Repainting the Christian Faith", by Rob Bell some years ago, and I agree with you Dragonia, for someone of the faith struggling to come to terms with some of the language and terms of Christianity especially in context of the existence of hell your recommendation for his other book is a good one.

If you are going to explore your faith, or even question your doubts within your faith it is important to do so with an open mind, and if I remember correctly he spells out or discourages the claim that there is only one way to interpret the bible.
More or less inviting the reader to explore the ultimate questions they have regarding their faith,  and not worry so much or at all about any right answers.

Certainly could be a way to get past the fear installed in many people by the more evangelical churches. (Even the less stringent ones for that matter)



Still not convinced that Manga is here wholly out of good faith, as I've been proselytized too many times over the years. I don't trust religious folk that easily.
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xSilverPhinx

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Re: I am afraid, and I've got a question about Christian "visions" of hell
« Reply #25 on: April 04, 2017, 04:14:15 PM »
Appeal to fear. So what else is new? :eyeroll:

I'm just a student of the game that they taught me.


BooksCatsEtc

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Re: I am afraid, and I've got a question about Christian "visions" of hell
« Reply #26 on: April 04, 2017, 05:51:05 PM »
Appeal to fear. So what else is new? :eyeroll:

Hey, it works -- frightened people are very easy to manipulate.  That's how Trump got so many supporters.
Sandy

  
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Dragonia

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Re: I am afraid, and I've got a question about Christian "visions" of hell
« Reply #27 on: April 04, 2017, 06:38:13 PM »
You know, I might have to find a book exploring the effects of fear. Both from a mob or group perspective and on an individual level.
I grew up very intimately familiar with gut-gripping terror, so it's a subject that has a tender spot in my heart.
Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle. ~ Plato (?)

Father Bruno

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Re: I am afraid, and I've got a question about Christian "visions" of hell
« Reply #28 on: April 06, 2017, 08:07:25 AM »
I think you folks scared Magna away. :-[
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Dave

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Re: I am afraid, and I've got a question about Christian "visions" of hell
« Reply #29 on: April 06, 2017, 08:34:56 AM »
Dredge hasn't dragged his bucket here for a while either.
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.