Author Topic: Pope suggests it's better to be an atheist than a greedy Christian.  (Read 624 times)

Firebird

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Re: Pope suggests it's better to be an atheist than a greedy Christian.
« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2017, 04:43:48 PM »

Regarding atheism, the Cathecism of the Catholic Church says,
 #2125
"The imputability of this offense (atheism) can be significantly diminished in virtue of the intentions and the circumstances.  Believers can have more than a little to do with the rise of atheism ... (since some believers, due to their failures) conceal rather than reveal the true nature of God and of religion."

So in other words, it's really all your fault we're atheists? Got it. Thanks Dredge.
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Gloucester

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Re: Pope suggests it's better to be an atheist than a greedy Christian.
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2017, 12:33:19 AM »
Regarding atheism, the Cathecism of the Catholic Church says,
 #2125
"The imputability of this offense (atheism) can be significantly diminished in virtue of the intentions and the circumstances.  Believers can have more than a little to do with the rise of atheism ... (since some believers, due to their failures) conceal rather than reveal the true nature of God and of religion."

I like the arrogance that atheism is an "offense". But I suppose we should expect these people to see the whole world through the filter of a religion that has only a fraction of humans as members. Only just over half of them, including all God botherers of the Abrahamic variety. Still a lot of people but this is not a democracy.

Now, just what is, "... the true nature of God and religion ..." I wonder? But then, every religion is the "true" one to its members. That makes how many hundreds, or even thousands, of "truths" out there?
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Re: Pope suggests it's better to be an atheist than a greedy Christian.
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2017, 03:54:44 AM »
Now that's the Church I know and hate!  ::)
You hate the Church because you believe it says atheists are going to a hell - a place that you don't believe even exists?  I'm confused.  

Btw, if memory serves, the Cathecism doesn't say that all atheists are necessarily damned to hell.  I'll have to look that up.
The atheist does not believe hell exists. The theist does. So the theist is wishing on the atheist the worst fate they can think of. Worse than threatening to kill him, he wants the atheist to be tortured for all eternity What sort of cunt does that? A theist, that's who. It's the intent on the theists part that is the issue here not the lack of belief on the atheists part.
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Dredge

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Re: Pope suggests it's better to be an atheist than a greedy Christian.
« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2017, 01:11:02 AM »
Correct, Dredge, you are confused. Mainly because you believe the bunkum that your church tells you without critical analysis.
I'm wondering how you could possibly know what critical analysis I've done or haven't done.
Quote
Personally I have no fear of hell, becsuse it does not exist in its classical form*.

Well, the only way you could know this is if you had died and gone to hell.   In which case, you wouldn't be here to give us your expert opinion, since no one leaves hell once there - or so the story goes.  So how did you manage to die, go to hell and get out again to be here, back on earth, tapping away on your computer.  Fascinating.
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But I do have feelings towards those who believe in hell and think that those like me are headed towards something that is real to them. That is equivalent to them wishing me sctually tortured.
 .So, why should I not dislike someone, or some organisation, who wishes evil on me? Even if that evil is a figment of their imagination? However, sometimes I merely pity them for their delusion.
I think you would have trouble finding any Christian who wants anyone to suffer in hell.  Besides, hell is being cut off from God - isn't that what an atheist wants?


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So, Dredge is this your true nature? Not just a creationist but also a fundamentalist? Blinded by the things you are told and read? Unable to understand that the men of your god can be evil and those who have no god at all can be good? That genetics and life experience determine a oerson's motives and actions - including what they believe in and how they use that belief? For good or evil?
You still haven't told me how "good" and "evil" can be defined, since everyone has a different opinion. 
For example, is homophobia "good" or "evil"?   
You also need to tell me why anyone should be "good", since, according to your "science", it doesn't matter if one is "good" or "evil". 
Follow the evidence wherever it leads.

Gloucester

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Re: Pope suggests it's better to be an atheist than a greedy Christian.
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2017, 04:20:25 AM »
Well, Drudgery, you have followed the standard fundie pattern and made the same-old-same-old statements and asked the same-old-same-old questions over again. Stuck in your rut you are never going to want to understand.

Answering you, yet again, is a waste of time and energy. Though, it has been fun at times.

Live happily in your delusions, I'll stick with the real world, as shitty as it can be some times.
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Arturo

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Re: Pope suggests it's better to be an atheist than a greedy Christian.
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2017, 11:25:28 AM »
It's funny how he keeps saying 'according to your "science"' as if it's breakung through to us. I'm becoming apathetic to it's use.
But, uh...well there it is.


Gloucester

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Re: Pope suggests it's better to be an atheist than a greedy Christian.
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2017, 11:30:05 AM »
It's funny how he keeps saying 'according to your "science"' as if it's breakung through to us. I'm becoming apathetic to it's use.

Well, at least "apathetuc" could be interpreted as "without pathetic". ;)
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Dredge

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Re: Pope suggests it's better to be an atheist than a greedy Christian.
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2017, 09:04:18 PM »
Well, Drudgery, you have followed the standard fundie pattern and made the same-old-same-old statements and asked the same-old-same-old questions over again. Stuck in your rut you are never going to want to understand.

Answering you, yet again, is a waste of time and energy. Though, it has been fun at times.

Live happily in your delusions, I'll stick with the real world, as shitty as it can be some times.
Your answers to some of my questions were somewhat shallow and childish, so in an attempt to get you thinking a bit deeper I resorted to repeated myself.  Alas, basic philosophical inquiry is obviously not something you are familiar with.  Instead, you seem content with delusions based on superficial emotions.
Follow the evidence wherever it leads.

Dredge

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Re: Pope suggests it's better to be an atheist than a greedy Christian.
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2017, 09:09:25 PM »
It's funny how he keeps saying 'according to your "science"' as if it's breakung through to us. I'm becoming apathetic to it's use.
What you consider to be science represents the intellectual basis of your atheism, so it's an important topic.  Perhaps you don't like the implications of your "science" being pointed out to you, which wouldn't surprise me, as it's my experience that most atheists don't. 
Follow the evidence wherever it leads.

Arturo

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Re: Pope suggests it's better to be an atheist than a greedy Christian.
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2017, 11:30:42 PM »
It's funny how he keeps saying 'according to your "science"' as if it's breakung through to us. I'm becoming apathetic to it's use.
What you consider to be science represents the intellectual basis of your atheism, so it's an important topic.  Perhaps you don't like the implications of your "science" being pointed out to you, which wouldn't surprise me, as it's my experience that most atheists don't.
It might not be that most athiests don't, it could be most athiests you talk about it with don't because you present it as a pejorative.

You make generalizations based on personal experience so you're basically saying that what you think of your past experiences is how the world works. That's not uncommon, even amongst athiests. "I don't see any God, you have to prove to me he exists to convince me to believe you".

Whatever implications you think you know are exactly that, implications. You're taking things at face value without trying to understand the person. Essentially, you're just prejudice because we are athiest. You haven't taken the time to hear our side presumably because you don't know how yo properly listen. And yes you can hear or read what someone says but that doesn't mean you have depth. There is a whole world out there that people don't know of because they don't know how to expose the depth of contrasting opinions. I don't blame them for not trying, they wouldn't know how if they did try. But I actually pity the people who need to be listened to because their stoties are often the most painful, full of rejection and isolation, and are often the minority in the community they live in.

Which is why I don't enjoy you telling me what I believe as if you know my whole life. I don't like people like you because you are often racist, homophobic, intolerant, and assholes to everyone you don't agree with.
But, uh...well there it is.


Recusant

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Re: Pope suggests it's better to be an atheist than a greedy Christian.
« Reply #25 on: March 27, 2017, 09:23:18 PM »
Well, Drudgery, you have followed the standard fundie pattern and made the same-old-same-old statements and asked the same-old-same-old questions over again. Stuck in your rut you are never going to want to understand.

Answering you, yet again, is a waste of time and energy. Though, it has been fun at times.

Live happily in your delusions, I'll stick with the real world, as shitty as it can be some times.
Your answers to some of my questions were somewhat shallow and childish, so in an attempt to get you thinking a bit deeper I resorted to repeated myself.  Alas, basic philosophical inquiry is obviously not something you are familiar with.  Instead, you seem content with delusions based on superficial emotions.

Dredge, this post has been reported to staff.

Now, some would rightly say that your presence at HAF has resulted in some lively discussion, but that cannot in itself excuse breaking the rules of the site. In your personal text you describe yourself as somebody who is "fascinated by atheism." That may be accurate enough as far as it goes, but over the time you've been here a somewhat more problematic agenda has presented itself. It appears that you joined this site in large part to attempt to antagonize its members by ridiculing science and engaging in personal jibes. The former tactic seems to stem from a belief on your part that science stands in place of a sort of holy scripture for atheists. That is not completely inaccurate--there are no doubt some atheists who are as uncritical of science as any Fundamentalist Christian is of the Bible.

Atheists who assume that all Christians hold the ridiculous beliefs of Fundamentalists are foolish and myopic. At the same time, Christians who believe that all atheists "worship" science are ignorant and prejudiced. People here have explained several times that they regard science as merely a tool to learn about our Universe, yet you still cling to your caricature of atheism, harping on the same vein of fallacious invective you began with.

The staff have made it clear that antagonizing the members of this site for your personal gratification is not an acceptable form of behavior, and you have been given time and opportunities to modify your approach to discussions here. At this point, it is hard to avoid the conclusion that you have no intention of trying to limit yourself to civil discussion. In light of this, a lengthy suspension or perhaps a permanent ban is the next step. Members of staff who have argued for a tolerant approach have been left with little in the way of support. Do you have anything to say in your own defense?
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Re: Pope suggests it's better to be an atheist than a greedy Christian.
« Reply #26 on: March 27, 2017, 11:35:48 PM »
^^^^
Dredge...
...Do you have anything to say in your own defense?


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Arturo

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Re: Pope suggests it's better to be an atheist than a greedy Christian.
« Reply #27 on: March 27, 2017, 11:47:35 PM »
But, uh...well there it is.


Davin

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Re: Pope suggests it's better to be an atheist than a greedy Christian.
« Reply #28 on: March 28, 2017, 07:39:17 AM »

Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.

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Re: Pope suggests it's better to be an atheist than a greedy Christian.
« Reply #29 on: March 28, 2017, 01:23:42 PM »
While we're waiting, here are two arguments I routinely see from fundamentalists, and that are cropping up here, that I don't understand:

1.  treating science as a philosophy rather than a tool.  First of all, because when I look at what science is and how it works, it's very obviously a tool and if I can see that I'm not sure how anyone else could miss it. 

Second, because if you want to hold an atheist to account for philosophy gone wrong, there are several actual philosophies popular among many (tho not all) atheists to be used.  Materialism and humanism are both fairly common among atheists and both get a lot of criticism from conservative theists. 

Of course, the theist who wanted to take an atheist to task for such philosophies could run into trouble if the individual he's arguing with doesn't hold either of them, but it only takes a few moments to ask what his particular philosophy is and go from there.

2.  the "abortion is murder" thing.  Murder is a legal term, so it has a limited application.  When abortion is legal, as it is now, it is by definition not murder -- even if someone thinks it should be, it still isn't.  And calling it that during the times when it's legal just turns any debate about abortion to endless anti-choice "is so!" (because I object to it) and pro-choice "is not!" (because it's legal).

Why not use any of a handful of other terms for killing that have just as much emotional impact and are always applicable?  Like "slaughter", "butchery" (a little bit of a stretch but not much), or even just "killing"?  That makes way more sense and actually helps move the discussion along.
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