Author Topic: Abuse trials  (Read 735 times)

Lark

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Abuse trials
« on: January 20, 2017, 05:01:51 AM »
I do not know if this is an universal occurrence or specific to UK but I would be very interested in opinions about it. I am talking about court cases involving sexual abuse of women which occurred many years ago but the woman or women have ony just made the accusation.  The man is usually well known but now old,  or even dead.   I wonder why these women have waited so long to say anything and why they have spoken out now.  It seems to me that  there is no real proof  and it is one word against another.  A woman has only to prove she was in the same place as the accused man at the same time so there was opportunity  and she could say anything and be backed up by other women with an eye to fame, financial gain or even the truth.  What good does it do now ?    I think there should be a time restriction on these accusations and after so long   a case  would  not be considered or made public in any way.      Thoughts ????? 

Pasta Chick

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Re: Abuse trials
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2017, 08:09:13 AM »
There's a lot I want to say here and I don't even really know where to start.

There are a lot of reasons victims don't come forward. Looking at what happens to those that do is a good way to see why. The Brock Turner trail was most recently a stunning example of that.

Davin

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Re: Abuse trials
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2017, 08:34:15 AM »
Being abused is bad in a lot of ways. Being sexually abused is much worse. We're still in a society that thinks that women are supposed to be pure until marriage. Even in more progressive viewpoints, women are not supposed to be "sluts" the same way men are expected to be sluts. We also live in a society where a large amount of people blame the victim for the sexual assault. Most of these accusations that come out later are against men that in a position of power, and the women abused tend to not be. Another thing is that not every sexual assault case leads to justice because of many different reasons.

Now from the perspective of a woman who had just been abused, you're asking why they don't potentially ruin the rest of their lives, how people perceive them, how people treat them, and in many cases their ability to move up in their career... for the chance that the person who did it might receive justice. And that slim chance (even slimmer of a chance if the accused can afford really good lawyers), is only after a long, expensive, and public trial.

So why do they wait? For a lot of reasons. Even more than I listed.

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Firebird

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Re: Abuse trials
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2017, 09:24:18 AM »
There's a lot I could say, but I'm curious why you brought this up. Are you talking in general terms, or was there a specific case that caught your attention.
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Asmodean

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Re: Abuse trials
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2017, 09:54:39 AM »
Hmm... Yes... My views on this matter don't take into account several emotional considerations people find... Unavoidable, I suppose.

I will see which way this thread goes and perhaps join in at a later time, preferably when I'm in a more careful mood than I am today.
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Gloucester

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Re: Abuse trials
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2017, 10:00:35 AM »
I think the shame and guilt, though not deserved by the victim, are themselves very hard hurdles to cross. If you add in a personality that is loved and respected by a large part of the public, or who is in an authoritative position,  you may have a "squared" effect. Perhaps the fear is multiplied rather than merely added.

If the abuse happens at a very young age and does not continue for a long period it can get pushed behind a memory barrier. Associated events and the life-time effects happen still but the event itself is "buried". How do you describe an event "buried" many years ago in a court of law? The circumstantial evidence, the grooming etc, are also memories from far back and unprovable.

But, if others with more "mature" memories come forward the less sure people may be pursuaded to have their say, which may help alter "the balance of evidence" against the accused. This will give still others confidence. But the court still has to be wary of mistaken identity, "false memory" and malicious claims etc, so no-one gets an easy ride.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 11:24:40 AM by Gloucester »
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Arturo

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Re: Abuse trials
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2017, 11:12:45 AM »
We have a "statute of limitations" here. I forgot how long but it's "x" amount of years that you have to bring up an accusation case to court. Of course there is Bill Cosby who has been accused of this and the statute of limitations is long over from when he's been accused. But he still gets all this hate.

I could go into personal experiences. I've myself been...on the receiving end of uncomfortable circumstances with a girl. I never brought it up in court because I didn't feel valid on that thought. It was mostly the thought of "I've been blamed for it" which is different because from my experience, people respond to that with "well it's your fault" and when I'm talking about being on the receiving end, people call it rape. I could go into detail of what happened but it hurts too much.
But, uh...well there it is.

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Pasta Chick

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Re: Abuse trials
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2017, 11:25:08 AM »
Detail on the OP would be helpful, as circumstances for why people don't report are generally different for different demographics. I also have an unreported sexual assault that many would class as rape in my past, but I'm guessing my reasons for not reporting are pretty different than Apathy's.

Gloucester

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Re: Abuse trials
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2017, 11:26:20 AM »
Don't think there are any limitations, in the UK, on how long back these cases can be active.
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Gloucester

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Re: Abuse trials
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2017, 11:30:18 AM »
Detail on the OP would be helpful, as circumstances for why people don't report are generally different for different demographics. I also have an unreported sexual assault that many would class as rape in my past, but I'm guessing my reasons for not reporting are pretty different than Apathy's.

Good point there, PC, the age at which the abuse took place, for e.g., could be a big factor. Older people might weigh up the pros and cons. Little kids may suffer deeper problems, cannot rationalise. Then there is the relationship . . .
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Ecurb Noselrub

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Re: Abuse trials
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2017, 03:27:57 PM »
The statute of limitations in these cases differs from state to state, and differs if the matter is handled in civil or criminal courts.  There is no national standard on this.

I would think that some women just want to stay out of the limelight after an event occurs, and then after years they rethink their position.  Just a hunch, however.

Pasta Chick

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Re: Abuse trials
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2017, 03:39:15 PM »
I think, simply put, the burden of reporting very often outweighs the pain of letting it all go, for a lot of reasons. When the rapest attempts to move to position where they could inflict harm, or when numerous others accuse as well, the weight of that burden shifts.

Gloucester

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Re: Abuse trials
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2017, 12:00:04 AM »
In the UK in the not so distant past the reception victims of abuse got was aggressive, they were often made to feel it was their fault.

Now, thankfully, they get a more objective reception and there are trained police officers to work with them. That does mean the attitude can swing too far in their favour before all evidence is heard, public opinion is now much more on their side.

I had a friend who, abused y her fsther and two priests at her convent school, effectively spent the rest of her life looking for "love" by being very sexually active. It did not work of course.

But it did mean that she would have been, effectively, be laughed out of court as a slut. Now there us more understanding that this can be a lasting symptom of the psychology of abuse victims.
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Arturo

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Re: Abuse trials
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2017, 05:49:08 AM »
I had a friend who, abused y her fsther and two priests at her convent school, effectively spent the rest of her life looking for "love" by being very sexually active. It did not work of course.

Can you fix this please? I want to know the full story. :grin:
But, uh...well there it is.

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Bad Penny II

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Re: Abuse trials
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2017, 06:20:57 AM »
I had a friend who, abused y her fsther and two priests at her convent school, effectively spent the rest of her life looking for "love" by being very sexually active. It did not work of course.

Can you fix this please? I want to know the full story. :grin:

I find your tawdry interest in Gloucester's unfortunate friend very tawdry.
If you are a serious researcher I've got private VHS video of it for $22.50
« Last Edit: January 21, 2017, 06:40:00 AM by Bad Penny II »
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