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Istanbul Airport Bombing

Started by Firebird, June 29, 2016, 04:45:18 AM

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Firebird

3 suicide bombers struck the international terminal at Atatürk Airport. So far 36 dead and at least 140 wounded.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36658187

We were in that terminal 3 weeks ago flying back from a visit with my in-laws. Luckily no one we know has been affected.

Turkey has been a dangerous place this year, with multiple bombings from both the Islamic State and PKK (radical Kurdish group). No one's taken responsibility thus far, but suspicion currently falls on IS due to the use of suicide bombers and specific targeting of civilians.
"Great, replace one book about an abusive, needy asshole with another." - Will (moderator) on replacing hotel Bibles with "Fifty Shades of Grey"

OldGit

It's a terrible shame.  Not so long ago, Turkey had a great secular future, now it's being dragged into the Islamic madness.

Asmodean

Quote from: OldGit on June 29, 2016, 09:04:14 AM
It's a terrible shame.  Not so long ago, Turkey had a great secular future, now it's being dragged into the Islamic madness.
That's what Islam does...
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

No one

Again, I think no mercy at all should shown upon them. Bomb them out of existence.Teach the terrorists what terror truly is. Make them fear farting in the general direction of anyone that even knows an American.

I know my views on this subject are not agreeed with by many. I am not looking to debate. If you think I am wrong, you are welcome to your point of view. And I do respect the way you feel.

Firebird

Quote from: No one on June 29, 2016, 03:17:20 PM
Again, I think no mercy at all should shown upon them. Bomb them out of existence.Teach the terrorists what terror truly is. Make them fear farting in the general direction of anyone that even knows an American.

I know my views on this subject are not agreeed with by many. I am not looking to debate. If you think I am wrong, you are welcome to your point of view. And I do respect the way you feel.

Bomb who exactly?
"Great, replace one book about an abusive, needy asshole with another." - Will (moderator) on replacing hotel Bibles with "Fifty Shades of Grey"

No one

Quote from: Firebird on June 29, 2016, 03:56:13 PM
Quote from: No one on June 29, 2016, 03:17:20 PM
Again, I think no mercy at all should shown upon them. Bomb them out of existence.Teach the terrorists what terror truly is. Make them fear farting in the general direction of anyone that even knows an American.

I know my views on this subject are not agreeed with by many. I am not looking to debate. If you think I am wrong, you are welcome to your point of view. And I do respect the way you feel.

Bomb who exactly?

Take your pick. I don't care who! I have absolutely no sympathy for the middle east. If I can't could pick, it would be Mecca.

Please understand, this is how I feel. I am not asking anyone to agree with me.

Dave

Quote from: OldGit on June 29, 2016, 09:04:14 AM
It's a terrible shame.  Not so long ago, Turkey had a great secular future, now it's being dragged into the Islamic madness.
I thoroughly agree, OG.

The thought of Turkey, with its present government, joining the EU would have been enough to change my stance and vote Brexit I admit.

Once again, the people are let down by their so-called leaders.

But we have to, somehow, rely on them as a "buffer" state, especially considering the possible total collapse of Syria. How leaving the EU will affect us in this is yet to be seen.

I am torn between my humanitarian values and my wish to protect our people. I can see why some consider Islamophobia a valid responee. In a duscussion on another forum I asked a Muslim how I, seeing a young man, dressed in "everyday" but smart ME style, with shemagh scarf, neatly cropped hair and beard, walking along  the road carrying his full rucksack, could tell whether he is a Hadji or a jihadi?

Whether going to worship at Mecca or to fight for Allah the devout Muslim man prepares himself in much the same way.

The Muslim gentleman did not answer.
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
Passed Monday 10th Dec 2018 age 74

Ali

Quote from: No one on June 29, 2016, 04:10:57 PM
Quote from: Firebird on June 29, 2016, 03:56:13 PM
Quote from: No one on June 29, 2016, 03:17:20 PM
Again, I think no mercy at all should shown upon them. Bomb them out of existence.Teach the terrorists what terror truly is. Make them fear farting in the general direction of anyone that even knows an American.

I know my views on this subject are not agreeed with by many. I am not looking to debate. If you think I am wrong, you are welcome to your point of view. And I do respect the way you feel.

Bomb who exactly?

Take your pick. I don't care who! I have absolutely no sympathy for the middle east. If I can't could pick, it would be Mecca.

Please understand, this is how I feel. I am not asking anyone to agree with me.
Quote from: No one on June 29, 2016, 04:10:57 PM
Quote from: Firebird on June 29, 2016, 03:56:13 PM
Quote from: No one on June 29, 2016, 03:17:20 PM
Again, I think no mercy at all should shown upon them. Bomb them out of existence.Teach the terrorists what terror truly is. Make them fear farting in the general direction of anyone that even knows an American.

I know my views on this subject are not agreeed with by many. I am not looking to debate. If you think I am wrong, you are welcome to your point of view. And I do respect the way you feel.

Bomb who exactly?

Take your pick. I don't care who! I have absolutely no sympathy for the middle east. If I can't could pick, it would be Mecca.

Please understand, this is how I feel. I am not asking anyone to agree with me.

I know you said that you don't want to debate, and no one (haha No one) will force you to respond, but I think it's a little cowardly to throw out something like "We should bomb someone; don't care who, as long as they are in the Middle East. But no debates!" So whether you want to debate or not (again, your choice if you respond) I'm going to reply.

Most of the victims of Muslim terrorism are Muslims living in the Middle East. Source: http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2016/03/u-s-government-muslims-victims-82-97

So basically, in order to wipe out terrorism (not that this approach would work; the wars since 911 have spawned a lot of new terrorists who saw their friends, family members, and countrymen bombed by the West) you would happily also kill the victims of terror. Very nuanced of you.

Firebird

Quote from: Ali on June 29, 2016, 05:37:44 PM

I know you said that you don't want to debate, and no one (haha No one) will force you to respond, but I think it's a little cowardly to throw out something like "We should bomb someone; don't care who, as long as they are in the Middle East. But no debates!" So whether you want to debate or not (again, your choice if you respond) I'm going to reply.

Most of the victims of Muslim terrorism are Muslims living in the Middle East. Source: http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2016/03/u-s-government-muslims-victims-82-97

So basically, in order to wipe out terrorism (not that this approach would work; the wars since 911 have spawned a lot of new terrorists who saw their friends, family members, and countrymen bombed by the West) you would happily also kill the victims of terror. Very nuanced of you.
Not to mention that this is exactly the mentality that got us into Iraq. Sure, let's bomb someone in the middle east. Doesn't matter who they are or whether they were actually responsible, right?

Quote from: Gloucester on June 29, 2016, 04:23:07 PM
Quote from: OldGit on June 29, 2016, 09:04:14 AM
It's a terrible shame.  Not so long ago, Turkey had a great secular future, now it's being dragged into the Islamic madness.
I thoroughly agree, OG.

The thought of Turkey, with its present government, joining the EU would have been enough to change my stance and vote Brexit I admit.

Serious question, would you have wanted to keep Turkey out of the EU 10 years ago as well, or just in light of recent events? I ask because I wonder if Turkey would have gone in a more Western direction had they been allowed into the EU back then. This would have been before Erdogan revealed his true Islamist colors and tilted the country towards the Arab world and against Western values and freedoms.
"Great, replace one book about an abusive, needy asshole with another." - Will (moderator) on replacing hotel Bibles with "Fifty Shades of Grey"

No one

You all are free to think what you want. I do not want to get into a pissing match. I know you are not going to change my mind, nor will I change yours.

But, I do not care at all about muslims. I couldn't care less if most of the victims are other muslims. I have absolutely no sympathy for them, none at all. None of them. Not the men, not the women, not even their children. They mean nothing to me.

Firebird

Quote from: No one on June 29, 2016, 07:09:23 PM
You all are free to think what you want. I do not want to get into a pissing match. I know you are not going to change my mind, nor will I change yours.

But, I do not care at all about muslims. I couldn't care less if most of the victims are other muslims. I have absolutely no sympathy for them, none at all. None of them. Not the men, not the women, not even their children. They mean nothing to me.

Why? Honestly, I'm curious. Do you just assume they're all like ISIS?
"Great, replace one book about an abusive, needy asshole with another." - Will (moderator) on replacing hotel Bibles with "Fifty Shades of Grey"

Ali

Quote from: No one on June 29, 2016, 07:09:23 PM
You all are free to think what you want. I do not want to get into a pissing match. I know you are not going to change my mind, nor will I change yours.

But, I do not care at all about muslims. I couldn't care less if most of the victims are other muslims. I have absolutely no sympathy for them, none at all. None of them. Not the men, not the women, not even their children. They mean nothing to me.
Do you feel that way about everybody or just Muslims?

Davin

Quote from: No one on June 29, 2016, 07:09:23 PM
You all are free to think what you want. I do not want to get into a pissing match. I know you are not going to change my mind, nor will I change yours.

But, I do not care at all about muslims. I couldn't care less if most of the victims are other muslims. I have absolutely no sympathy for them, none at all. None of them. Not the men, not the women, not even their children. They mean nothing to me.
Just giving your opinion and then saying that you refuse to discuss it, is preaching. I don't much appreciate people preaching at me.

Dehumanizing other humans is a shitty and irrational thing to do. I can understand where you're coming from, it's perfectly normal for people to see some bad thing and then immediately identify the perpetrators and then to draw some arbitrary line (all Muslims in your case), between them and the people you identify as your group. This makes it more difficult for you to see your irrational mistakes because you will refuse to listen to the "other side" or to even see them as humans on the same level as you.

If you will not honestly investigate whether you are right or wrong about a thing, I guarantee that you are wrong about it. The numbers are on my side. We are humans with limited knowledge, if we don't honestly re-evaluate with new information, the odds that we are right about something are not in our favor. Also, we need to refine our judgments in order to make sure that our understanding is as close to reality as possible. I mean, you wouldn't want to go around advocating for the murder of innocent people based on irrational conclusions would you? I certainly hope not.

I respect your right to refuse to honestly evaluate your deeply held beliefs, just as I exercise my right to offer my opinion about it.
Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.

Magdalena

Quote from: No one on June 29, 2016, 07:09:23 PM
You all are free to think what you want. I do not want to get into a pissing match. I know you are not going to change my mind, nor will I change yours.

But, I do not care at all about muslims. I couldn't care less if most of the victims are other muslims. I have absolutely no sympathy for them, none at all. None of them. Not the men, not the women, not even their children. They mean nothing to me.
My dear, No one. Those are some strong words. Do you really mean that? I know sometimes we say things we don't mean when we're angry. You want the Muslims dead, the men, the women, the children. Would you kill them with your own hands? If that's the case, you are one to fear as well.

What happened at the airport makes me sad and angry too, but I don't think killing "all of them" is the answer.--That sounds like something a God would say, and do. "Kill all of them." :eyeroll:

"I've had several "spiritual" or numinous experiences over the years, but never felt that they were the product of anything but the workings of my own mind in reaction to the universe." ~Recusant

Icarus

I can readily understand anger and the fear of becoming a victim right here in the US or the UK or other almost civilized places.  Killing them all is not the best course of action. There are more than a billion of the supposedly culpable ones we'd have to destroy. Aside from the humanitarian implications of such a program there is the cost, not to mention the dwindling supply of C4. Killing them all just ain't gonna get it. Killing just a few of them ain't gonna get it either. Besides, we can not identify them all. They do not all wear burkas or have dark beards and face masks. Think Fort Hood, Orlando, Boston Marathon and all.

The difficult but not absurdly impossible alternative that we have, is to bring them, somehow, into our circle of friendships and persuade them to become our cooperative partners. That means that we will have to stop bombing them. Yes that seems like a pie in the sky solution but please someone name a more workable solution.

I reckon that we'd need to eliminate the likes of the Boko Haram leaders and others of their ilk, but maybe not. Maybe we could try to re-educate them. We might not have to meet them halfway but we'd surely need to make a few concessions. The whole process of making peace with them might take a hundred years but what are our alternatives?