Author Topic: Should Atheists organize. . . should they seek community?  (Read 2656 times)

elliebean

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Re: Should Atheists organize. . . should they seek community?
« Reply #60 on: February 28, 2010, 10:40:14 PM »
Points well taken.
Quote from: "orandj"
Sounds good to me. However,as soon as someone sets up any group, there will be people who want to join that you or others view as undesirable. This is not a reason for not starting a group, it's an inevitable dilemma that in some ways helps the group identify the extent of their commonly held position.

I suspect what happens, more often than not, is not so much that we (the group) see so many individuals who join as undesirable, but that many individuals perceive the group itself as undesirable, for one reason or another, and therefore never consider joining.

However, I don't think those people constitute a majority of atheists. From my experience with the people I've met, while "atheism" is all-inclusive, atheists are typically...well, not typical... compared to other people in other groups. The members on this forum are a diverse group, from all walks of life (and I'm happy to see how welcoming and tolerant we are of each other's differences so far), but if we take the example of political affiliations, you don't usually find the run-of-the-mill, binary, republican/democrat self-identification so common in the wider population. We (atheists) represent the full range of left-right politics, but I see a lot more independents, libertarians, socialists, anarchists, etc. within our ranks than you might find proportionally outside of them. A lot more out-of-the-box thinking too.

So maybe there's some hope for us. :)
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orandj

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Re: Should Atheists organize. . . should they seek community?
« Reply #61 on: February 28, 2010, 10:53:10 PM »
Quote from: "elliebean"
The members on this forum are a diverse group, from all walks of life (and I'm happy to see how welcoming and tolerant we are of each other's differences so far), but if we take the example of political affiliations, you don't usually find the run-of-the-mill, binary, republican/democrat self-identification so common in the wider population. We (atheists) represent the full range of left-right politics, but I see a lot more independents, libertarians, socialists, anarchists, etc. within our ranks than you might find proportionally outside of them. A lot more out-of-the-box thinking too.

So maybe there's some hope for us. :)

Even if there's not, (and I think there is) there's only one course of action and that's giving it a go..that's all humans have ever done, sometimes we wish we hadn't, but there you go..you learn by your mistakes for sure! Enjoyed our discussion. You are right that atheists are especially diverse in views...I wonder if this could actually end up being an advantage ?

elliebean

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Re: Should Atheists organize. . . should they seek community?
« Reply #62 on: February 28, 2010, 11:55:40 PM »
In the long scope of things, I imagine it will. :)

What I'm wondering now is whether it would be more advantageous to try to get atheists with all our differing views to try to come together or for atheists to push for more acceptance and recognition of their presence and their rights within each of their other communities. Perhaps the former has to happen in order for there to be a concerted effort toward the latter.
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You can’t lie to yourself. If you do you’ve only fooled a deluded person and where’s the victory in that?—Ricky Gervais

orandj

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Re: Should Atheists organize. . . should they seek community?
« Reply #63 on: March 01, 2010, 07:55:02 PM »
Quote from: "elliebean"
What I'm wondering now is whether it would be more advantageous to try to get atheists with all our differing views to try to come together or for atheists to push for more acceptance and recognition of their presence and their rights within each of their other communities. Perhaps the former has to happen in order for there to be a concerted effort toward the latter.

In order to get acceptance do we not first require community?..so we are an effective force? May be we are arguing the same point largely ..I understand your reluctance to ask atheists to unite...if religions can fracture along so many lines then atheists seem to have even more excuses to do the same. I agree it would be a mistake to expect atheists to unite around a common manifesto...more simply we seem to be demanding that atheists should be free to enjoy the same social networking/priviledges other lobbying groups have.

Given this, what do you think of the Ancestor's trail event? I know it's on another continent  :sigh: but...as a form of non-theist symbolic celebration?http://www.ancestorstrail.net/

elliebean

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Re: Should Atheists organize. . . should they seek community?
« Reply #64 on: March 01, 2010, 11:59:51 PM »
Quote from: "orandj"
...more simply we seem to be demanding that atheists should be free to enjoy the same social networking/priviledges other lobbying groups have.

Throw in agnostics and other non-religious, freethinking people and we would make up a very large minority, to be sure.

Quote
Given this, what do you think of the Ancestor's trail event? I know it's on another continent  :)
[size=150]—Ellie [/size]
You can’t lie to yourself. If you do you’ve only fooled a deluded person and where’s the victory in that?—Ricky Gervais

i_am_i

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Re: Should Atheists organize. . . should they seek community?
« Reply #65 on: March 02, 2010, 12:10:21 AM »
I can see someone organizing an event for athiests in a cool nightclub, a place where young single people wouldn't have to worry about striking up a conversation with a wacko Christer and the older folks could drink and dig on the music in peace, knowing that there aren't any morons about.

It would be great! Really interesting people hanging out, nice and relaxed, with a great jazz band on the stand and no sky-god fruitcakes in the room.

Make it a once-a-week event. I'd be there religiously. Well, you know what I mean.
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orandj

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Re: Should Atheists organize. . . should they seek community?
« Reply #66 on: March 02, 2010, 07:40:57 PM »
Quote from: "i_am_i"
I can see someone organizing an event for athiests in a cool nightclub, a place where young single people wouldn't have to worry about striking up a conversation with a wacko Christer and the older folks could drink and dig on the music in peace, knowing that there aren't any morons about.

It would be great! Really interesting people hanging out, nice and relaxed, with a great jazz band on the stand and no sky-god fruitcakes in the room.

Make it a once-a-week event. I'd be there religiously. Well, you know what I mean.

Check out this in UK

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFYuwQ2grbQ

TheAntitheist

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Re: Should Atheists organize. . . should they seek community?
« Reply #67 on: March 21, 2010, 08:35:58 PM »
Isn't atheism simply non-belief?  Passive by definition?  Not really a great clarion call to organise around - which is why all those "we are the one true faith" shouters seem so attractive in comparison.

Antitheism, however, represents active oppostion towards religious belief.  Its active element automatically makes it a stronger proposition for attracting support, interest, a "following" if you will.

Personally, any organised approach to tackling faiths and their associated nonsense gets my vote - be it passive or active (as long as it is within the law, of course!).  For those looking for a practical way to further their atheism or antitheism, check out my facebook page which includes examples of active opposition, highlights failings among theists, etc... Just search for "The Antitheist" in facebook and take a look - become a fan if you feel like it. :)
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pinkocommie

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Re: Should Atheists organize. . . should they seek community?
« Reply #68 on: March 22, 2010, 12:38:33 AM »
Quote from: "TheAntitheist"
Isn't atheism simply non-belief?  Passive by definition?  Not really a great clarion call to organise around - which is why all those "we are the one true faith" shouters seem so attractive in comparison.

Antitheism, however, represents active oppostion towards religious belief.  Its active element automatically makes it a stronger proposition for attracting support, interest, a "following" if you will.

Personally, any organised approach to tackling faiths and their associated nonsense gets my vote - be it passive or active (as long as it is within the law, of course!).  For those looking for a practical way to further their atheism or antitheism, check out my facebook page which includes examples of active opposition, highlights failings among theists, etc... Just search for "The Antitheist" in facebook and take a look - become a fan if you feel like it. :)

TheAntitheist, this is not meant to be directed specifically at you, your post just reminded me - I'm getting annoyed/tired with all of the new labels people are throwing out to explain exact positions and levels of activity within the atheist community.  I've been told before that I shouldn't call myself an atheist, I should call myself a free thinker, an agnostic, a humanist, an antitheist, etc. etc. etc.  I can understand why some people feel these labels are necessary, but advocating for a specific term over another term seems like a ridiculous waste of time to me.  Call yourself what you want, if someone asks go ahead and explain, otherwise let's focus on what's important, not what we freaking call ourselves.
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Whitney

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Re: Should Atheists organize. . . should they seek community?
« Reply #69 on: March 22, 2010, 03:22:15 AM »
Quote from: "TheAntitheist"
Isn't atheism simply non-belief?  Passive by definition?  Not really a great clarion call to organise around

I don't know...seemed to work pretty well for this forum  ;)

i_am_i

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Re: Should Atheists organize. . . should they seek community?
« Reply #70 on: March 22, 2010, 03:37:05 AM »
Quote from: "Whitney"
Quote from: "TheAntitheist"
Isn't atheism simply non-belief?  Passive by definition?  Not really a great clarion call to organise around

I don't know...seemed to work pretty well for this forum  ;)

Exactly!
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TheAntitheist

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Re: Should Atheists organize. . . should they seek community?
« Reply #71 on: March 22, 2010, 08:55:09 PM »
Fair points guys - it's just that from personal experience I know a number of people who don't believe in a god but see absolutely no point in associating with that especially or organising around it (and why should they?  I don't believe in invisible hedgehogs either but have no burning desire to create a community with other like minded folk).

To me, antitheism is a distinct and separate position (and, similarly, I'm sure that if I considered people that did believe in invisible hedgehogs to be a real threat to freedom and progress then I would be moved to resist them).  However, I can also see how it might just be considered a matter of semantics.

But, hey, I'm just a newbie!  :)
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elliebean

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Re: Should Atheists organize. . . should they seek community?
« Reply #72 on: March 22, 2010, 09:07:21 PM »
I think too many theists would have difficulty distinguishishing anti-the-ists from anti-theists.
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You can’t lie to yourself. If you do you’ve only fooled a deluded person and where’s the victory in that?—Ricky Gervais

Whitney

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Re: Should Atheists organize. . . should they seek community?
« Reply #73 on: March 22, 2010, 09:11:04 PM »
I don't think atheists are necessarily antitheists...I for one am not an antithiest and see no reason to try to make everyone atheist.  So, I and others like me, would not organize around antitheism but might want to socialize with other atheists.

pinkocommie

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Re: Should Atheists organize. . . should they seek community?
« Reply #74 on: March 22, 2010, 09:25:07 PM »
Quote from: "TheAntitheist"
Fair points guys - it's just that from personal experience I know a number of people who don't believe in a god but see absolutely no point in associating with that especially or organising around it (and why should they?  I don't believe in invisible hedgehogs either but have no burning desire to create a community with other like minded folk).

To me, antitheism is a distinct and separate position (and, similarly, I'm sure that if I considered people that did believe in invisible hedgehogs to be a real threat to freedom and progress then I would be moved to resist them).  However, I can also see how it might just be considered a matter of semantics.

But, hey, I'm just a newbie!  :(  Short version - I totally understand wanting to describe oneself as accurately as possible.  Sometimes I worry about people differentiating too much between fellow non believers because it may end up creating a kind of toxic denominational-ism which, as we see in religion, is counter-intuitive to progress.
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