Homosexuality and Christianity | Split from TWC Introduction Thread

Started by TheWalkingContradiction, July 09, 2012, 10:50:07 PM

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Sandra Craft


I miss the Star Trek debate already.

Quote from: TheWalkingContradiction on July 09, 2012, 10:50:07 PM
But I know that not every Christian is like this.  I don't like the religion and fear its effect on people, but I do respect good people who happen to be Christian (or Jewish or Muslim or...)  It's a matter of agreeing to disagree.

I also have a gay friend who is a very conservative Christian and is thus celibate--and approaching 40.  This is very hard for me, as I feel bad for him.  (Not that I should talk, as I am single and won't say how long it has been since I have had sex; I tend to be very sexually conservative too...  Anyway...)  This is what he wants, but he is otherwise a decent guy.  He is also a teacher, and we share a lot of our experiences.

Ditto with the not-pigeonholing-Xtians, unless they ask for it.  I not only have a number of friends who are gay and devoutly religious, I have a number of relatives who are both as well.  An aunt of mine was in a committed relationship with another woman for 30 years.  They broke up about 15 years ago, as people sometimes do even after a long time together, and she's been celibate since. 

I really don't see the point of voluntary celibacy myself, and I know she's had a lot of grief in her life trying to square her religion's pronouncements on homosexuality with her own nature, but still I have to respect her committment to her religious beliefs and willingness to struggle with it all.  It's not everybody, gay or straight, who wouldn't just go right to lip service when their religion interfered with their sex life.
Sandy

  

"Life is short, and it is up to you to make it sweet."  Sarah Louise Delany

TheWalkingContradiction

#31
Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on July 11, 2012, 06:33:41 PM

I miss the Star Trek debate already.

Quote from: TheWalkingContradiction on July 09, 2012, 10:50:07 PM
But I know that not every Christian is like this.  I don't like the religion and fear its effect on people, but I do respect good people who happen to be Christian (or Jewish or Muslim or...)  It's a matter of agreeing to disagree.

I also have a gay friend who is a very conservative Christian and is thus celibate--and approaching 40.  This is very hard for me, as I feel bad for him.  (Not that I should talk, as I am single and won't say how long it has been since I have had sex; I tend to be very sexually conservative too...  Anyway...)  This is what he wants, but he is otherwise a decent guy.  He is also a teacher, and we share a lot of our experiences.

Ditto with the not-pigeonholing-Xtians, unless they ask for it.  I not only have a number of friends who are gay and devoutly religious, I have a number of relatives who are both as well.  An aunt of mine was in a committed relationship with another woman for 30 years.  They broke up about 15 years ago, as people sometimes do even after a long time together, and she's been celibate since.  

I really don't see the point of voluntary celibacy myself, and I know she's had a lot of grief in her life trying to square her religion's pronouncements on homosexuality with her own nature, but still I have to respect her committment to her religious beliefs and willingness to struggle with it all.  It's not everybody, gay or straight, who wouldn't just go right to lip service when their religion interfered with their sex life.

We can certainly continue the Star Trek discussion in the original thread or in a new thread on a specific aspect of Star Trek.  Its creator, Gene Roddenberry, was an atheist, and that contributed greatly to his vision of the future.  Star Trek and atheism (or even science fiction and atheism) would be a great thread, one to which I would gladly contribute if someone started it.  Or someone can start a new thread on something else without atheism.  That is the type of discussion I relish.

As to homosexuality and Christianity...  So much pain and all for no reason.  I'll preface my next remarks by reiterating that there are Christians, Jews, Muslims, and members of other religions who are straight allies and don't hurt gay people.  The church in which I was raised was originally a house of horrors; however, my parents and sister are now involved in a church which made being pro-gay and pro-gay marriage a requirement for the new minister it had to hire a few years ago.  Consequently, there are now a small number of lesbians in the church.  My sister, who is also the head Sunday School teacher, is largely responsible for changes in this church, and that is to a large degree because of the horrible things done to me in the name of Jesus.  (I don't know any of you well enough to feel safe/comfortable discussing the specific details.  I also do not know how many Christians are on the board, and I am afraid of being attacked if I pounce too hard on religion.  That was my experience on my last atheist board.)  

I will say a couple of things instead of all that is on my mind...  If I say nothing, my being on this board serves no purpose.  

First, my church had said that there was no such thing as homosexuality.  The devil created the temptations, but Jesus drove them away.  I also knew that I was of Mediterranean descent, and straight Mediterranean guys (Italians, Greeks, Spaniards, Turks, Israelis, Arabs...) are very touchy-feely with each other in a non-sexual way.  That, I theorized, was why I liked to put my arm around guys' shoulders, and since Mediterranean guys in my church did that it was all right.  I was not gay, I believed, since gay did not exist.  So sad.  

What kills me most, though, and what I was spared, is Christian parents who disown their gay kids.  Homeless teenage prostitutes, many gay and only in their teens, are thus created.  Too many have unprotected sex since they need money to eat; they then suffer the ravages of sexually-transmitted diseases.  

I got killed for saying this to Christians one...   If Jesus were real instead of an idealized projection, he would not be the buddy of Republicans in boardrooms.  He would be hanging out with gay prostitutes, homeless people, punks and goths, poor minorities, the downtrodden--basically, the folks represented by the characters in Rent.  But I guess it is like the urban legend of the Christian parent who smacks the child for saying Jesus was Jewish.  Of course, Jesus was Christian.  And he spoke English.  --SIGH--

The thought of Jesus palling around with...  homosexuals!  So many good Christians don't want to hear it.  (At least I know my parents and sister, who are all Christian, agree with me.  Most of the rest of the family, all Christian, despises me since I am a homosexual and think barbaric thoughts like a polysexual Jesus hugging and comforting a person with AIDS.  Which is the real Christianity?  I wish it were the hugging and comforting thing...  But my wishing is not enough.  Atheism is the only path for me.)  

If only Gene Roddenberry, Socrates, and Jesus could walk hand in hand in public.




Firebird

Quote from: TheWalkingContradiction on July 12, 2012, 12:25:23 AM
I got killed for saying this to Christians one...   If Jesus were real instead of an idealized projection, he would not be the buddy of Republicans in boardrooms.  He would be hanging out with gay prostitutes, homeless people, punks and goths, poor minorities, the downtrodden--basically, the folks represented by the characters in Rent.  But I guess it is like the urban legend of the Christian parent who smacks the child for saying Jesus was Jewish.  Of course, Jesus was Christian.  And he spoke English.  --SIGH--
That's a fantastic analogy. I do think it's very important to make a distinction between what Jesus the man was apparently saying (if he did exist) vs. the church that grew up out of a twisted version of his teachings. 
"Great, replace one book about an abusive, needy asshole with another." - Will (moderator) on replacing hotel Bibles with "Fifty Shades of Grey"