War on Religion

[Tank]

Classifying oneself as the victim of a 'War' allows retaliation. In the case of theists it allows/facilitates the focussing of resources and effort in the consolidation of their dogmatic positions.

[Firebird]

Classifying oneself as the victim of a 'War' allows retaliation. In the case of theists it allows/facilitates the focussing of resources and effort in the consolidation of their dogmatic positions.

So true

[cgmccall]

I always think of Atheism as a step away from a kind of primitive, emotional thinking that requires no accountability. Religion is one product of that kind if thinking; so is war.
Still, while religion is never necessary, war sometimes can be. I don't like the idea of fighting anyone, but if they try to teach kids that evolution is a lie, or homosexual partners shouldn't be able to see each other in the hospital...hand me my spear.

[xSilverPhinx]

I always think of Atheism as a step away from a kind of primitive, emotional thinking that requires no accountability. Religion is one product of that kind if thinking; so is war.
Still, while religion is never necessary, war sometimes can be. I don't like the idea of fighting anyone, but if they try to teach kids that evolution is a lie, or homosexual partners shouldn't be able to see each other in the hospital...hand me my spear.

War is a means to an end, war just for the sake of it makes no sense whatsoever, a drain and is simply imbecilic. Costs are incredibly high and in the end of it all, all sides will generally wish they had never taken part in it.

But sometimes it is necessary, and even though the word 'war' has become rather over-used and thrown around so easily, I still think that calling the new atheist movement an ideology war is appropriate.

(I'm not a war-mongerer, I'm just saying. IMO it's the weakest who feel they need to resort to strength as their means...)

Classifying oneself as the victim of a 'War' allows retaliation. In the case of theists it allows/facilitates the focussing of resources and effort in the consolidation of their dogmatic positions.

Not to mention when there's a threat (real or imagined) in the horizon, people usually group into their flocks more readily and are even more manageable, not to mention a better lobbying force. Terror Managment.

[BonaireBound]

I don't respect anyone who's religious. I just can't do it... :\

It really makes me seriously question their intelligence.

Totaly agree

[BonaireBound]

Okay, maybe "war" is too strong a word, but lately I am definitely of the opinion that atheists need to push back. Call it a movement or a campaign, or whatever but I really think we all need to come out of the closet and be heard. I am sick of religion, which if you dare to even ask it to defend it's position, you are being "disrespectful" (see The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins). I am sick even remotely entertaining the possibility that "intelligent design" or creationism could be taught in our schools as "alternative theories". This is utter nonsense and is wasting our collective time as humans that could be spent moving on to the next discoveries. I know I am repeating myself here, because I also posted this in another thread, but Neil deGrasse Tyson says it better than I can: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ti3mtDC2fQo&list=PLF3520A1942B13832&index=1&feature=plpp_video . An important point he makes in this video is the appallingly stifling affect religion has (and has always had) on our progress as a species. There is so much suffering in the world that probably could have been alleviated thousands of years ago if it weren't for the quagmire of religion (or as Neil puts it, the philosophy of ignorance) holding us back. The ongoing harm this is doing is immeasurable and that is why I don't think it's okay to say "well, if they want to believe that, then what's the harm?"

[Buddy]

I'm going to play the devil's advocate and just say that I don't see the point of a "war on religion." This may just be the passive side of me speaking. In my opinion, it is words like these that are the reason that religious people hate us. They see all atheists as people who want to do away with their religion and force them to not believe. Of course that is impossible, but I think that saying things like this is just like the religious trying to force their beliefs on us. It is just not fair. I say, if they are not hurting anyone, leave them be.

[The Magic Pudding]

In my opinion, it is words like these that are the reason that religious people hat us.

Well I for one am thankful that the religious hat us. 
Oh of course you can steal hats from secular targets but the religious do have a talent for providing truly bizarre examples of the millinery art.

[Buddy]

In my opinion, it is words like these that are the reason that religious people hat us.

Well I for one am thankful that the religious hat us. 
Oh of course you can steal hats from secular targets but the religious do have a talent for providing truly bizarre examples of the millinery art.

Crap! Another typo. Oh well, at least it was amusing.

[Sweetdeath]

I'm going to play the devil's advocate and just say that I don't see the point of a "war on religion." This may just be the passive side of me speaking. In my opinion, it is words like these that are the reason that religious people hate us. They see all atheists as people who want to do away with their religion and force them to not believe. Of course that is impossible, but I think that saying things like this is just like the religious trying to force their beliefs on us. It is just not fair. I say, if they are not hurting anyone, leave them be.

Umm....


Yes, they are hurting 'anyone' or does being gay and having smeone tell you you're disgusting, or an abomination because the bible says. Protesting a homosexual's funeral. Or their rights as human beings to marry the ones they love.

What about religious parents disowning their children? Or  even killing them (or causing them suicide)because they accept their orientation?

Let's not even begin with homosexality in the middle east ....

So, yeah... Religion is so innocent.  Let's let it be. Let's let it keep controlling our laws, while  it spreads hatred and ignorance.   

[Buddy]

Umm....


Yes, they are hurting 'anyone' or does being gay and having smeone tell you you're disgusting, or an abomination because the bible says. Protesting a homosexual's funeral. Or their rights as human beings to marry the ones they love.

What about religious parents disowning their children? Or  even killing them (or causing them suicide)because they accept their orientation?

Let's not even begin with homosexality in the middle east ....

So, yeah... Religion is so innocent.  Let's let it be. Let's let it keep controlling our laws, while  it spreads hatred and ignorance.   

Yes, I do agree that the intolerance needs to stop. But honestly, declaring war on religion is going to do nothing more than pissing off the theists. It we really want to stop the intolerance and hatred, we need to start with the younger generation. Most older people that I have met have been believing all of their lives and they are set in their ways and will not change. Buy reaching out to youth how important it is to be tolerant of religions, sexual orientations, gender, etc. we can do a lot of good. I just don't think that "declaring war" on a group that already hates us enough is going to solve anything.

[xSilverPhinx]

If we really want to stop the intolerance and hatred, we need to start with the younger generation.

I'm impressed, Budhorse.

(Totally agree, BTW)

Though an old dog can learn new tricks, you do have a point there, it's much more difficult for older people to accept a totally new paradigm. They have their whole lives invested in their beliefs...and some can get rather stubborn

[Amicale]

It would be nice to have a,lunch in te park without religion shoved in your face.

Especially taking public trains/buses. I should be allowed to have a nice day without hearing the stories of some dirty hippie 2000 years ago. How he someone died for us, yet the world is as evil as ever. And people just wont move the fuck on with their lives.

SD, is this how it is in NY? I guess I'm just a little surprised. Friends who live there say that they can go through their day very easily there without seeing any reference to religion. Maybe it's just the fields they work in, or the areas they live in... I dunno. Although I did laugh at the "dirty hippie" comment.   What have you got against hippies?  

As for the 'war on religion', I don't want a 'war' on anyone, even if it's just an intellectual one. I don't want to deny anyone their right to believe in their faith, and I don't even really want to argue them into abandoning their beliefs and becoming atheists. I don't want them to deny my rights or try to convert me, so I wouldn't do the same to them.

I'd prefer to have reasonable, level-headed conversations with them. I'd prefer to fight for our right to teach our kids actual science in schools. I'd prefer to continue to fight for the separation of church and state in a way that doesn't attack the people who attend the churches, if possible. I believe in attacking arguments, but not those who hold them.

Really, in a perfect world, we'd all just leave each other be. But failing that, I agree with the others who said that using humor to get our points across is a good idea. It gets us further than angry screaming does, anyhow. Aside from humor, we can just be the best possible people we can be, and start breaking down the stereotypes people have about us.

[Stevil]

Okay, maybe "war" is too strong a word, but lately I am definitely of the opinion that atheists need to push back. Call it a movement or a campaign, or whatever but I really think we all need to come out of the closet and be heard.

Well, I agree to a point.

No-one should have to endure discrimination based on religious belief.

Atheists should not have to be forced to pray or swear on the bible.
We should not have to pledge allegiance or an oath that includes god worship.
We should not have to give grace to gods for our food, or thanks for our efforts and achievements.

We should not simply shrug off when a person tells us we are going to hell, we should not shrug off when a person tells us they will pray for us. These things are disrespectful of us and our non beliefs.

We ought to stand up and be counted.
To stand up for each other, especially those being persecuted by religious organisations and beliefs.
We ought to demand anti discrimination across the board, in all parts of society, even in religious organisations.
We ought to demand churches to play their part and pay taxes towards the betterment of our society.
We ought to demand religious based rules not to impose on the non religious and hence not impact a compassionate end to a painful life, nor to inhibit medical progress such as stem cell research.

[Amicale]

I don't respect anyone who's religious. I just can't do it... :\

It really makes me seriously question their intelligence.

Totaly agree

I respectfully disagree. I respect several people who are religious, just not specifically because they ARE religious. Their religion is only one aspect of their personality, and while I may disagree with them over it there's still generally plenty I can respect them deeply for.