War on Religion

[Happy_Is_Good]

I recently say a post here about someone wanting to "Join the Revolt" and asking when foe the "War on Religion" begin.  The post then quickly devolved into silliness and it became pretty obvious the poster wasn't serious.

However...I am serious, and I do say that there is a "War in Religion" whether people tend to recognize it, or not.  I think the war has been going on for years, but most recently got "a lot hotter" after the events of 9/11 which made a lot of people realize just how stupid and dangerous religion could be – and made them more willing to speak out.

Although there has been an Atheist voice or two openly decrying religion over the last 100 years, or so, what is called the "New Atheist" by the Xtians is especially representative of a war.  And...I'll agree with the Xtians on this one – the "New Atheist" is something new.

Until recently – very recently - every time Atheists and Xtians have debated, there has always been an unspoken rule of the debate: Religious beliefs must be respected.  Not so with the new Atheists who casually mocks religion and enjoys doing so. As a result, the religious amongst us have lot a lot of firepower, for religion can not stand to be mocked – not ever.  Those who are religious take themselves seriously and they feel mighty uneasy when Atheists do not take them seriously.  This is why the "New Atheism" is so feared.  This is why the "New Atheism" is so effective. 

A belief in the supernatural can not long withstand ridicule.

[Sweetdeath]

New Atheism? Is that seriously a term?

I personally just try to live my life without labels.  "dont believe in any mumbo jumbo, such as dieties" is usually how i describe my views. Realist. Or something...


War on religion though? No.. I dont think so. At least not in the crappy U.S.

[xSilverPhinx]

Religions in general have thin skins, that's for sure, and it's one of their weaknesses. Shows a lot of weakness too.

I usually reach a crossroad when dealing with people that I respect, because they're people I respect regardless of their beliefs. I don't respect any of their beliefs however, but they're really sensitive about them.

I can only speak for myself, but what really annoys me about religion is the amount of interference and broken old ways. The level of entitlement they feel to meddle in other people's lives (and not seeing a problem with it) is sometimes unbelievable. And their moral system, which depends on some Big Brother who is always watching and will judge them in the afterlife - it's all very childish.  I believe children go through a developmental stage where they don't do wrong things for fear of getting caught?

This true believer I knew indulged in certain sins addictively, which is really odd for a true believer in an omniscient god who "knows his heart" and will judge him in the afterlife. WTF is up with that? Can anybody explain that inconsistency? I'm terribly curious...

[Sweetdeath]

I don't respect anyone who's religious. I just can't do it... :\

It really makes me seriously question their intelligence.

[philosoraptor]

The war on religion.  I can't help but laugh every time I say it.  I want to ask them who exactly it was they thought started the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, and so on and so forth.  War implies an element of hostile takeover, of forcing views and beliefs on people who don't want them.  I don't know many atheists bent on converting the religious.  I don't atheists who blow up churches or otherwise accost religious folk who are otherwise minding their own business.  The war on free thinking might be a better way to describe what's happening in America, or the war on old white guys who think only old white guys are entitled to their Constitutional rights.

When Christians rail atheists about their beliefs, they call it evangelism.  When an atheist suggests believing science over superstition, than it some how becomes a war.  Yeah, okay. 

[xSilverPhinx]

I don't respect anyone who's religious. I just can't do it... :\

It really makes me seriously question their intelligence.

I would say the same, but there are some people I know are very intelligent. They're just not thinking clearly. I don't respect their beliefs, however. It's not their religion that keeps me from bashing them, that's for sure.

I do think that calling the current zeitgeist a clash of ideologies, an 'ideology war' is appropriate. It's not something that has to resemble the Christian takeover during the dark ages to be called a war, IMO. I think it's rather pointless to compare that kind of stuff perpetrated in the past with today. It's a bit like apples and oranges, there.

[Sweetdeath]

The war on religion.  I can't help but laugh every time I say it.  I want to ask them who exactly it was they thought started the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, and so on and so forth.  War implies an element of hostile takeover, of forcing views and beliefs on people who don't want them.  I don't know many atheists bent on converting the religious.  I don't atheists who blow up churches or otherwise accost religious folk who are otherwise minding their own business.  The war on free thinking might be a better way to describe what's happening in America, or the war on old white guys who think only old white guys are entitled to their Constitutional rights.

When Christians rail atheists about their beliefs, they call it evangelism.  When an atheist suggests believing science over superstition, than it some how becomes a war.  Yeah, okay. 

I know. Atheists tend to make their business, and not disturb your park lunch by asking for donations to their missionary. Idjits.

I have to stop myself from laughing in their face every time.

[Firebird]

Why is it always a war on something? A "War on Christmas", a "war on religion", the "war against drugs", the "war on terrorism", etc. Any time you start attaching the term "war" as part of a policy argument or point of view, it becomes a simplistic caricature of the message, one that makes it far too simplistic. Also, saying the new atheists are declaring a "war on religion" is the perfect way to demonize them in the eyes of many in society, which is ultimately self-defeating.

I am not interested in a war against religion. I am interested in pushing for less religious influence in the public sphere, and more emphasis on actual science and reasoning instead. And for religion not to be shoved in my face, and to respect my atheist views. That's not a war against anything. It's an argument, and perhaps a campaign. Until some fundies start attacking me for my views and I have to figure out how to fire a gun to protect myself, I'm not at war with anything except the flies I fry with my electric flyswatter.

[OldGit]

I am not interested in a war against religion. I am interested in pushing for less religious influence in the public sphere, and more emphasis on actual science and reasoning instead. And for religion not to be shoved in my face, and to respect my atheist views. That's not a war against anything. It's an argument, and perhaps a campaign. Until some fundies start attacking me for my views and I have to figure out how to fire a gun to protect myself, I'm not at war with anything except the flies I fry with my electric flyswatter.

Exactly!  And IMO one of the main methods in this campaign should be humour.

A belief in the supernatural can not long withstand ridicule.

Very neatly put.

[Sweetdeath]

It would be nice to have a,lunch in te park without religion shoved in your face.

Especially taking public trains/buses. I should be allowed to have a nice day without hearing the stories of some dirty hippie 2000 years ago. How he someone died for us, yet the world is as evil as ever. And people just wont move the fuck on with their lives.

[Harmonie]

The thing is, what is considered a 'War on Religion' is entirely different between conservative Christians and secularists (general term, hopefully that works). To conservative Christians the 'War on Religion' is about (false) oppression. While to the rest of us, the 'War on Religion' is about the rise of the number of non-believers and isn't in any way a bad thing.

I am certainly an 'New Atheist' in this regard of questioning religious beliefs though. As long as Christianity still holds the majority of my country, tells me how to dress, tells me who I can love and who I can not love, I will push against it. When you have a view like this, it is objectively either right or wrong. It isn't an opinion. It's a statement of fact. The notion that a view like this can not be questioned is absurd. If it weren't so rooted in our society and did not get into our laws I would not care so much, though. Honestly, I know this because of how I feel about those who believe in ancient astronauts. Their belief is way out there, however, they aren't telling me how I should run my life, and they have no influence for their craziness to end up in the form of law. So, honestly, I don't care. Some of them can be rather full of themselves and how they think they know so much more than the 'sheep' (us), but that's another issue.

I don't respect anyone who's religious. I just can't do it... :\

It really makes me seriously question their intelligence.

It's not about intelligence.

It's about a group playing specifically to the pitfalls of the human brain. It's a great big web that you can get caught in and intelligence does not get you out of it.

I don't understand why you can't respect anybody who's religious. I really hope you don't mean exactly what you're saying. Religious people are people. There are many layers to a person, and oftentimes religious belief isn't a very big layer of that person. I live in the Bible Belt, but I can tell you that not many people I know have their identity completely tied up in their religion. There's one girl I knew in high school who now only ever makes posts on Facebook with Bible verses and about living for the Lord, but she's one out of MANY Christians I know. Most of them hardly if ever mention religion or God.

Again, a lot of people don't make their identity all about their religious beliefs. They can very much be normal people. I just don't think that in any normal situation, a religious belief is reason to lose respect for somebody. It's when do things like hate on homosexuals and other groups, wish to deny rights to others through law, refuse to take their child to a hospital because of "faith healing" or anything like that warrants a loss of respect. You have to take it on case-by-case basis because everybody is different, as a lot of religious people are just good people who happen to be religious.

[Crow]

War! that word shouldn't really be thrown around so inanely. Is a war what you really want? That is the last thing I would want, just think about what that word means and the actions that are committed even in its most mundane form. Do you want people to be arrested for there beliefs? do you want people to face hostile persecution? Do you want people to band together and fight against each other, splitting families and friends apart? Do you want floods of propaganda telling people how to think? Do you want aggressive, degrading, humiliating, actions to happen to others because they don't agree with you?

I don't respect anyone who's religious. I just can't do it... :\

It really makes me seriously question their intelligence.

I respect there choice to believe what they like but I can't respect the beliefs. When I say that I don't mean the philosophical stuff that can be found everywhere, even if I disagree with it there is usually an intellectual basis of some sort, its the other stuff that makes me lose any respect.

[rainbowcat212]

I don't want a war on religion. I'm not sure that I know anybody that wants a war on religion.

I think that many theists see athesits as wanting a war on religion. I think that some theists believe that we are out to deconvert everybody.

Now, there could be some athesits out there doing that. For the most part though, we just want to be able to choose what we believe (or don't believe) in.

[Sandra Craft]

For the most part though, we just want to be able to choose what we believe (or don't believe) in.

My main concern is the law being used to compel people as a whole to live according to specific religious practices -- the whole same-sex marriage business being a prime example.

I've said it before, I don't care what other people believe as long as they behave themselves.

[philosoraptor]

Why is it always a war on something? A "War on Christmas", a "war on religion", the "war against drugs", the "war on terrorism", etc. Any time you start attaching the term "war" as part of a policy argument or point of view, it becomes a simplistic caricature of the message, one that makes it far too simplistic. Also, saying the new atheists are declaring a "war on religion" is the perfect way to demonize them in the eyes of many in society, which is ultimately self-defeating.

I am not interested in a war against religion. I am interested in pushing for less religious influence in the public sphere, and more emphasis on actual science and reasoning instead. And for religion not to be shoved in my face, and to respect my atheist views. That's not a war against anything. It's an argument, and perhaps a campaign. Until some fundies start attacking me for my views and I have to figure out how to fire a gun to protect myself, I'm not at war with anything except the flies I fry with my electric flyswatter.

You've managed to say what I meant to say, except much more eloquently. ;-)