Happy Atheist Forum

I was reading friendly atheist blog today and this was posted : http://friendlyatheist.com/2010/08/03/too-soon-to-learn-about-santa-claus/.

My eldest child will be 3 this december and is likely to be ready for the santa claus debacle.

What is your opinion on Santa? I loved it as a child and was fine when I found out he wasn't real (which I found on my own) but I feel really awkward and weird lying to my babe.

Those of you with kids....have any experience here?

Hi

Three kids all grown up, first grandchild gestating, due Dec 3rd, so we'll be facing this question in a few years. You've said it yourself, you didn't have a problem finding out Santa wasn't real. It's almost a 'right of passage' of growing up, to show a child that they can enjoy a fantasy, but at the same time recognise the fact of fantasy! Imagination is critical to humanity, it may well be the quintessential defining characteristic of humanity. Our imagination is where we rehearse our moral choices, in a way it is what makes us moral creatures as it is where we can appreciate the potential effect on others of our actions.

Use Santa as a teaching aid. When they ask questions about how a reindeer powered sleigh can fly around the world in a night and visit all the children use it as a moment to explore stories.

Enjoy the moment, you can only be a child once, you have a whole life to be a sceptic!

Regards
Chris

The very thought of that old man entering my house sent a wave of fear into the very depths of my soul.

I blocked up the chimney and made my parents take down the christmas lights.

This might have had something to do with the department store santa that smelled of cheap liquor, though...and I was always an odd child.

Quote from: "Tank"Hi

Three kids all grown up, first grandchild gestating, due Dec 3rd, so we'll be facing this question in a few years. You've said it yourself, you didn't have a problem finding out Santa wasn't real. It's almost a 'right of passage' of growing up, to show a child that they can enjoy a fantasy, but at the same time recognise the fact of fantasy! Imagination is critical to humanity, it may well be the quintessential defining characteristic of humanity. Our imagination is where we rehearse our moral choices, in a way it is what makes us moral creatures as it is where we can appreciate the potential effect on others of our actions.

Use Santa as a teaching aid. When they ask questions about how a reindeer powered sleigh can fly around the world in a night and visit all the children use it as a moment to explore stories.

Enjoy the moment, you can only be a child once, you have a whole life to be a sceptic!

Regards
Chris

Thanks! Maybe your grandbaby will be born on my second daughters birthday - December 7th! :)

this was helpful, thank you! When did your kids discover the santa truth?

Quote from: "Heretical Rants"The very thought of that old man entering my house sent a wave of fear into the very depths of my soul.

I blocked up the chimney and made my parents take down the christmas lights.

This might have had something to do with the department store santa that smelled of cheap liquor, though...and I was always an odd child.

I think my wife had a similar fear of Santa and her Mum had to tell her he was not real from the get-go as her 7 year older brother used to tease and frighten her with the idea of Santa getting in!

Quote from: "TheOGMamaBear"Thanks! Maybe your grandbaby will be born on my second daughters birthday - December 7th! :)

this was helpful, thank you! When did your kids discover the santa truth?

Well my birthday is the 1st Dec and my next one is my 51st so a couple of days early and I'll  get a real present! We know it's a boy as my daughter asked at the last scan. She asked how they could tell. The technician pointed at the scan and said 'Penis and testicles.'  Not much she could say to that  :D

Doing the whole Santa thing is so much fun.
I couldn't imagine denying my kids the anticipation and enjyoment of christmas morning.
Or myself for that matter.  

Quote from: "Tank"

Quote from: "TheOGMamaBear"Thanks! Maybe your grandbaby will be born on my second daughters birthday - December 7th! :)

this was helpful, thank you! When did your kids discover the santa truth?

Well my birthday is the 1st Dec and my next one is my 51st so a couple of days early and I'll  get a real present! We know it's a boy as my daughter asked at the last scan. She asked how they could tell. The technician pointed at the scan and said 'Penis and testicles.'  Not much she could say to that  :D

Yay!  A Boy! I have TWO girls. Jeez. And they are two years apart. It's crazy.

I always loved christmas as a kid. Even when I knew santa wasn't real. It was just fun to pretend.

Quote from: "The Magic Pudding"Doing the whole Santa thing is so much fun.
I couldn't imagine denying my kids the anticipation and enjyoment of christmas morning.
Or myself for that matter.  

Agreed. If parents say they don't like all the make believe I'm not convinced they're telling the truth, the whole truth and noting but the truth!

Quote from: "TheOGMamaBear"

Yay!  A Boy! I have TWO girls. Jeez. And they are two years apart. It's crazy.

I always loved christmas as a kid. Even when I knew santa wasn't real. It was just fun to pretend.[/quote]
 I have three kids. A daughter born in mid '84 and twins (daughter & son) born in late '86. It's the eldest daughter who is expecting.

Quote from: "Tank"

Quote from: "TheOGMamaBear"

Yay!  A Boy! I have TWO girls. Jeez. And they are two years apart. It's crazy.

I always loved christmas as a kid. Even when I knew santa wasn't real. It was just fun to pretend.

I have three kids. A daughter born in mid '84 and twins (daughter & son) born in late '86. It's the eldest daughter who is expecting.[/quote]
Wow a two year old and twins! Did you lose it?

I'm having so much trouble with my toddler...

Quote from: "TheOGMamaBear"Wow a two year old and twins! Did you lose it?

I'm having so much trouble with my toddler...

No we still have all three. (https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg34.imageshack.us%2Fimg34%2F2438%2Fheheoc.gif&hash=50cf1131f6316b9f48965cce1bfe1877dc8f90e7)

My wife got very bad post natal depression. There were days I would get home from work to find all four of them crying and have to sort them all out. But one copes and things get better (allegedly)  

How old is toddler? Are we talking terrible twos?

Three children, all grown, two sons and a step-daughter,  and now two grands and I believe it is all good fun to play Santa.  My first wife and I cherished those years, and they go by so fast, as Tank said, we have a lifetime to be skeptic, but so few years to believe in magic.  I wouldn't trade those precious times for anything in the world, and you won't either, trust me.

Just an old man's humble opinion, but sometimes there really is value in the wisdom of experience.  At least I like to think so.  Peace and good luck.

Martin

Quote from: "Martin TK"Three children, all grown, two sons and a step-daughter,  and now two grands and I believe it is all good fun to play Santa.  My first wife and I cherished those years, and they go by so fast, as Tank said, we have a lifetime to be skeptic, but so few years to believe in magic.  I wouldn't trade those precious times for anything in the world, and you won't either, trust me.

Just an old man's humble opinion, but sometimes there really is value in the wisdom of experience.  At least I like to think so.  Peace and good luck.

Martin

I totally agree.  I was raised in a secular home, but man, we still celebrated Christmas all the way.  I love how the holiday is magical for kids, and I see Santa and Christmas in general as a time when a kid's imagination can be fully enjoyed, with elves and Santa and gifts and magic snowmen and everything else.  Man, I love Christmas...

My oldest was another one who was frightened by the idea of a large man coming into the house at night.  So we told her it is a game a lot of families like to play.  At 7, she still doesn't want to play.  But, she will let her 5 year old siblings play the game a bit.  They all know it's a fun story / game, but we still like to wrap one unique gift in special paper to give everyone from Santa.

A note about depriving kids of the joy Santa brings:  My oldest takes great joy in helping me wrap and shop for her siblings and hiding the presents in the house.  I think some kids just are wired differently.  I never liked Santa as a kid, either, and remember being very annoyed that everyone kept insisting he was real when I knew he wasn't.

Santa is a close, personal friend of mine. He's real, and he gives me toys!
 

Quote from: "McQ"Santa is a close, personal friend of mine. He's real, and he gives me toys!
 

Now that's just Hal talking isn't it. Go get McQ and get him to type please Hal or I'll have to come in there and pull your chips out.

[youtube:3qi5ck7f]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=px0c4Tgg6gg[/youtube:3qi5ck7f]

Quote from: "Tank"

Quote from: "TheOGMamaBear"Wow a two year old and twins! Did you lose it?

I'm having so much trouble with my toddler...

No we still have all three. (https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg34.imageshack.us%2Fimg34%2F2438%2Fheheoc.gif&hash=50cf1131f6316b9f48965cce1bfe1877dc8f90e7)

My wife got very bad post natal depression. There were days I would get home from work to find all four of them crying and have to sort them all out. But one copes and things get better (allegedly)  

How old is toddler? Are we talking terrible twos?

I had post partum with my first. The day my husband had to go back to work I called him 2 minutes after he left begging him to come home. It was nuts.

Oh and we are talking terrifically terrible atrocious twos.

She's a monster.

Quote from: "Martin TK"Three children, all grown, two sons and a step-daughter,  and now two grands and I believe it is all good fun to play Santa.  My first wife and I cherished those years, and they go by so fast, as Tank said, we have a lifetime to be skeptic, but so few years to believe in magic.  I wouldn't trade those precious times for anything in the world, and you won't either, trust me.

Just an old man's humble opinion, but sometimes there really is value in the wisdom of experience.  At least I like to think so.  Peace and good luck.

Martin

I think that is a good idea.

We are also a low key family. We don't like consumerism but love family. I want christmas to be special but not just revolving around gifts, but about winter and fun and playing with your imagination!

Quote from: "TheOGMamaBear"Oh and we are talking terrifically terrible atrocious twos.

She's a monster.

So you have two kids, and the younger one is giving you grief?

I have two kids, and the older (2.5 years) is giving me trouble. I also have an 8 month old, also a girl.

Quote from: "TheOGMamaBear"I have two kids, and the older (2.5 years) is giving me trouble. I also have an 8 month old, also a girl.

Oh shite! Yep. The terrible two's combined with competition and sidelining! Not a good combination. All I can say is that in my experience things do improve.

It's nice to let kids play prentend. I remember in 2nd grade I had a teacher who for st patty's day put leprechaun prints all over the class room and we took out or magnifying glasses and tried to find him. We had green cookies and wrote him letters. All of the magic and mystery of it was fun and exciting. I don't think kids should miss out on that. I wasn't really big on santa but I loved animals and the reindeer really made my day.

We do Santa, Tooth Fairy, Easter Bunny, all that stuff. We never go through extremes to make our kids believe or anything though. We don't leave any evidence that Santa was really there for example. Pretending that all of those things exist only lasts a few short years, your kids are definitely going to learn the truth. We plan on using it as an example of how lots of people can be 100% sure in their minds that something exists but that doesn't make it so. So far all of my kids still believe but I think this is going to be the last year my 8 year old does. Hopefully he doesn't spoil it for the younger ones like my brother did to me.   For now were are having fun pretending with them.

Oh I forgot to mention but obviously all of these things are done in a secular fashion. Which always leads to my kids being a tad confused when my family sings Happy Birthday to Jesus at Christmas. Then my catholic grandma just about has a coronary. Ah fun times.

I can see this thread is aging a bit, but I thought I'd drop in my 2c, since nobody else has said it quite:

We have two, aged 10 and 8.  We have Santa, Easter Bunny and Tooth Fairy.  So far they seem to still believe for the most part, but Miss 10 has started asking questions.  We can be quite harsh about irrational belief in God in our conversations between ourselves.  Miss 10 has picked up on this and the parallel with Santa.  When she drew the parallel out loud, we didn't say that Santa does or doesn't exist, we asked her the question:  What do you think?  If Santa isn't real, where do the presents come from?   We present the evidence for Santa and let her decide.

Bear in mind that she's used to being challenged with ridiculous statements, so she knows not to take all oral arguments at face value.  If she did, she would have to believe that she'll be served snails (they eat them in France, with garlic butter), roasted for dinner (you're fattened up enough now), sold into slavery (little blonde girls are worth lots in the middle east), or made to get a job (you're just too expensive to feed) any day now.  Needless to say, she's not falling for any of that.  

It's so hard to tell whether she really has figured it out, or not.  After all, if mum and dad are happy to give you extra presents on behalf of a pretend person, why kill the (imaginary) goose that lays the golden eggs?  I'd like to think she knows, but she's playing along so that her brother doesn't have to find out too soon.  I'd like to think he's doing the same for her.  Wishful thinking perhaps.  Who knows.

I hope miss ten gets more fun from the Santa fantasy, that's what fantasies are for.
And I hope you don't loose the hobbit.