Happy Atheist Forum

Hi there.

Is anyone else a secular homeschooler, has been, or is homeschooling their kids?

I'm a homeschooler, and I'm starting to get tired of people thinking that I'm super-religious because I'm a homeschooler... but I'm not.
I usually introduce myself as a homeschooler, for fear of two things:

1: the word "secular" actually sounds like it could be related to being religious to me, and I bet a good chunk of today's society doesn't know what the word means

2: "unreligious homeschooler" might make people hate me.  :shake:  (though both my parents are Christians, they don't teach me religion... reading, writing, and arithmetic; the basics   )

But I can see why they think so. Secular Homeschooling is virtually unheard of... people automatically associate "homeschool" with "religion", it seems. On another forum I go on, they have a Homeschooling Club. I'd say 90% of the members are super-religious. The club even has a "prayer request" section. (the only other club that has that is the Christian Club... I mean, really, people... having a Prayer Request thing on a homeschool club is kind of like having... well, I don't know what it's like having, but it's somewhat unrelated to me. Like having an article about apples on a thread about bananas. There. Came up with something.)

Sorry for the somewhat-long and somewhat-rant-y thread. This is just a touchy subject for me.

A freethought friend of mine homeschools one of her kids.

Hi Whitney!  Nice to meet you.  I'm pretty new here myself but had to respond to this.

Both my (Pastors wives) sisters homeschool and I said that I would never, ever do that to MY kids.  Yeah., you know where THIS is goin' doncha?  Last year I homeschooled my son Jack!  It was the best decision for us in that circumstance.  For the record, we used K-12 for curriculum and I couldn't say enough good about it.  In History he learned about Islam, Judaism, Christianity and the Hindu faith (as well as Confucionism, come to think of it).  And in English, it was amazing.  He went from scoring in the around 80th percentile to scoring in the 99th percentile and why-isn't-this-kid-in-advanced-placement.

And...yes, it is very lonely to be secular, even in K-12 where we had few meetings.  When we did meet, the vast majority were right-wing nutjobs. We made absoltuely no friends in it.  When Jack would join any kind of teleconference meetings with classmates, he felt oddly uncomfortable too.

I know that they're out there...but it's hard to find.  How old are your kids?  Jack is 14 now.  He's back in "regular" Jr. High, at his request.  He admits that he learned more in our year of homeschooling, but he says that he wants to be around other kids during the day.  So...he's 14 and I let him decide this one.

My children are too young yet, but we are also thinking of homeschooling. A lot of people think the same when I mention homeschooling. I even had a lady tell me I should rent books from her church.

I also occasionally had people ask if I was having a home birth for religious reasons.

Quote from: "TheOGMamaBear"My children are too young yet, but we are also thinking of homeschooling. A lot of people think the same when I mention homeschooling. I even had a lady tell me I should rent books from her church.

I also occasionally had people ask if I was having a home birth for religious reasons.

My nieces had been told again and again how terrible the local schools were.  I said again and again, put your kids in school.  Try it for a couple of months.  If they felt that the school was as bad as they were told then they could pull their kids out and home school.  Well the local school is very good.  They start teaching computers in the first grade.  They have music classes.  The science classes have hands on experiments.  All kids are regularly given lectures on bullying, drugs and alcohol.

Put your kids in school and volunteer as a classroom aide.  Make your decision about homeschooling by direct experience.

Quote from: "notself"Put your kids in school and volunteer as a classroom aide.  Make your decision about homeschooling by direct experience.

I think it depends on the kid too, if they have problems keeping up or problems with being challenged at a local public school then homeschooling may be what they need even if the school is a good one.  I would think the big drawback to homeschooling is making sure the kid develops proper social skills that they would normally pick up by interacting with their school friends...oh and whomever is homeschooling them not being able to have a day job.  The social interaction can be taken care of by joining sports leagues and things like that; but there is also something to be said for being forced to interact with kids from differing socioeconomic background (I know going from private to public school in 8th grade was a culture shock; in a good way) it teaches understanding and acceptance of those who are different.

My nieces' children are a bit pissed that they were home schooled at all.  Now we use homeschooling as a threat if they misbehave as in "If you don't do you school work, we will pull you out and home school you."  

No kids here, but by the looks of it, you may have some problems with finding a good science book:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100306/ap_ ... _evolution (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100306/ap_on_re/us_rel_home_school_evolution)

Quote from: "joeactor"No kids here, but by the looks of it, you may have some problems with finding a good science book:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100306/ap_ ... _evolution (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100306/ap_on_re/us_rel_home_school_evolution)

You can thank the current Texas School Board for that.  Texas is so big that the texbook companies will edit their books to fit the approval of Texas so that they don't lose out on such a huge market.

Quote from: "Whitney"

Quote from: "joeactor"No kids here, but by the looks of it, you may have some problems with finding a good science book:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100306/ap_ ... _evolution (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100306/ap_on_re/us_rel_home_school_evolution)

You can thank the current Texas School Board for that.  Texas is so big that the texbook companies will edit their books to fit the approval of Texas so that they don't lose out on such a huge market.

Yuck that makes me want to vomit. I'm scared for my babies.

I had to chime in again.  If it is the route you decide to go, I would strongly recommend looking into K12.  Their curriculum can't be beat.  In 7th grade science Jack did a over a month on evolution, including a few weeks just on what Darwin was like as an person and details about his voyage on the Beagle.

I don't errr....work for them or anything.  I had just seen scary "textbooks" that my fundy sisters had used and was delighted to find that the K12 stuff was far superior to the books in my own district.

You didn't say how old your kids are but if they are in the primary grades, you will find this link helpful.  It takes $20 per year to join and it is really worth it for interesting materials for the young ones, K-5.
http://members.enchantedlearning.com/Home.html (http://members.enchantedlearning.com/Home.html)

Hi, first post here. A friend pointed out this link on Twitter.
We are secular homeschoolers in Mississippi.
It does exist, although I agree it does get old having to explain we aren't religious. There are plenty of great resources out there for anyone considering it and you donot have to use the religious stuff so many recommend.
We did it for a number of reasons, my daughter was sick a lot for one. But when it came right down to it, unless we wanted our children inculcated with religion instead of education we had to do something.  It does greatly depend on the child but none of the stereo types are true. My children are now teens and they are healthy well adjusted and don't spend all their days with their noses in books- in fact, that was part of why we did it. Public schools have so much busy work that means nothing. We get what they do done in half the time and have time for fun and things like Astronomy club.
I'm not shy about telling people we aren't religious and that prepackaged curriculums don't work.
Anyway, I guess I'm going to stroll around your forum now! Nice to meet you guys

Quote from: "dogsmycopilot"Hi, first post here. A friend pointed out this link on Twitter.
We are secular homeschoolers in Mississippi.
It does exist, although I agree it does get old having to explain we aren't religious. There are plenty of great resources out there for anyone considering it and you donot have to use the religious stuff so many recommend.
We did it for a number of reasons, my daughter was sick a lot for one. But when it came right down to it, unless we wanted our children inculcated with religion instead of education we had to do something.  It does greatly depend on the child but none of the stereo types are true. My children are now teens and they are healthy well adjusted and don't spend all their days with their noses in books- in fact, that was part of why we did it. Public schools have so much busy work that means nothing. We get what they do done in half the time and have time for fun and things like Astronomy club.
I'm not shy about telling people we aren't religious and that prepackaged curriculums don't work.
Anyway, I guess I'm going to stroll around your forum now! Nice to meet you guys :)

Hi, another secular homeschooling mother here.   And another person who swore she would NEVER homeschool, :brick: ) and other pro-Christian tendencies.  I point this out only for the other posters who said they are considering homeschooling.  If avoiding the state's view of "appropriate" teaching materials is a concern, this option won't solve your problem.  It will, however, provide you with a ton of free--and some very awesome (I've browsed friends' materials) resources.

Glad to see other hs'ing famililes on here!

Businessocks,

Would you home school if you lived hours and hours away from any museum, university, theater, symphony, etc and where all of the other homeschoolers are fundamentalist Christians?

Quote from: "notself"Businessocks,

Would you home school if you lived hours and hours away from any museum, university, theater, symphony, etc and where all of the other homeschoolers are fundamentalist Christians?

Hmmm, interesting question.  It's hard for me to answer because I cannot imagine living in a place like that for very long.  I lived in a very rural, Bible-belt part of the South before having kids.  I had to drive 40 minutes just to get to a grocery store.  I commuted an hour each way for work.  When I had my first daughter, we moved because I wanted more options for her.  So, I guess the answer would be no, I wouldn't want to homeschool in such an area as you describe, but I wouldn't want to send my kids to whatever school district that was in that area either (I taught for a public high school in the South, so I really knew I didn't want my kids in that system).  So I would move

Are you having trouble finding non-religious hs'ing groups in your area?  If so, I might be able to help you locate other options.   Or was it just for the sake of conversation that you asked this question?

My nieces home schooled their children and were doing a damn lousy job of it.  When I moved here and saw what was going on, I had a royal tizzy fit.  It took me two years but I got all the little ones in public school.  The local elementary and middle school are fairly decent.  The high school is just so so.  The parents are making up for it by sending the kids to various scholastic camps in the summer.  The kids are so happy to be in the "town school" that if their grades slip, we threaten them with home schooling.

I can understand that some parents like yourself can do a wonderful job teaching their own children.  Unfortunately not all parents are up to the task.

Quote from: "notself"Unfortunately not all parents are up to the task.

That is the real problem. We need to, as a a society, be communicating to young people that if you are not educated enough to see to your child's education perhaps you are not prepared for children and should not have them. Having children, especially in the American south, is seen way too casually. It is too acceptable. People need to understand that you can't just leave it up to the state like they don't need any oversight. You are your child's advocate first. They have a job to do, but you have a life to shape.

I was homeschooled from the 4th grade on because I had health problems. My parents, although Christian, did not believe in shoving religion down my throat and wanted me to make my own choice. But it was really hard finding a home school association that was not religious. We finally just went through American School and met with the school district every couple months.

It's a real shame that there is an assumption that because you were homeschooled you are religious. When it comes down to it, I honestly doubt that most are homeschooled because of religion. I think most have either had a bad experience with public schools that has nothing to do with religion, but rather the quality of education OR they have medical problems like I did.

I found this information on wikipedia (I know).  Keep in mind, it's from 2001 -

QuoteAccording to a 2001 U.S. Census survey, 33% of homeschooling households cited religion as a factor in their choice. The same study found that 30% felt school had a poor learning environment, 14% objected to what the school teaches, 11% felt their children were not being challenged at school, and 9% cited morality.[20]

According to the U.S. DOE's "Homeschooling in the United States: 2003", 85 percent of homeschooling parents cited "the social environments of other forms of schooling" (including safety, drugs, sexual harassment, bullying and negative peer-pressure) as an important reason why they homeschool. 72 percent cited "to provide religious or moral instruction" as an important reason, and 68 percent cited "dissatisfaction with academic instruction at other schools."[13] 7 percent cited "Child has physical or mental health problem", 7 percent cited "Child has other special needs", 9 percent cited "Other reasons" (including "child's choice," "allows parents more control of learning" and "flexibility").[13]

Other reasons include more flexibility in educational practices for children with learning disabilities or illnesses, or for children of missionaries, military families, or otherwise traveling parents. Homeschooling is sometimes opted for the gifted student who is accelerated, or has a significant hobby or early career (i.e. acting, dancing or music).

A number of Christians homeschool because they believe parents are entrusted with the main responsibility for teaching their children. For example, one group holds to the tenet that "Christian parents must provide their children with a thoroughly Christian education," and that "Christians should not send their children to public schools since education is not a God-ordained function of civil government." Furthermore, its "Tenets of Biblical Patriarchy" asserts that

"Since the educational mandate belongs to parents and they are commanded personally to walk beside and train their children, they ought not to transfer responsibility for the educational process to others. However, they have the liberty to delegate components of that process.[21]”

I think religious homeschoolers are often sensationalized, and so that aspect of homeschooling gets a lot more attention.  No one cares about  a smart family that feels they can provide a better education for their kid than the public option, everyone wants to get the juicy details about the crazy fundies who make their kids learn bible math and only use paper that's been blessed by a holy goose.  =D  I think the stigma is starting to fade, though, which is good because some of the most clever, well adjusted people I've met have been homeschooled and it pains me to witness them having to defend their education to people who are unfairly judgmental of them simply because of a personal bias against homeschooling.

Interesting, there seem to be a lot of people who home school their children on this board, I wonder what percentage of children are home schooled?

Over here, it is practically unheard of, or at least I never met or even heard through association of someone being home schooled.

pinko, I think you are right.  The fundie hs'ers definitely are sensationalized.  Whenever there is a news report on hs'ing in the mainstream media, they are the ones who get the focused attention.

But to be fair, regardless of the changing statistics, the religious hs'ers were the pioneers of hs'ing in the US.  Thus, they are the ones who have much more organized groups and support networks, making them easier to find.  They have free meeting space (their church) and free advertising (their church).  Secular groups in my area can struggle to find public places to meet that don't cost a fortune and that allow messy science experiments, etc.  Anyway...

It's nice to hear positive comments about hs'ing. It's nice to hear that others get that we're not all like the family in this video.  


 [youtube:82tdjsuh]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VM6uqj0_jQc[/youtube:82tdjsuh]

How did you go about preschool?

My daughter is soon ready for preschool and I'm interested in doing that (at the very least) at home. Most of the preschools around here are run by churches and they incorporate Jesus into EVERYTHING they do.

Okay maybe not everything but I think 3 is so early to be introduced to heavy stuff like Jesus.

There are great books for preschoolers on Amazon and terrific material on a site called Enchanted Learning.  Terrific arts and crafts, silly poems, pre-math, pre-reading are all available at this site.  It only costs $20 per YEAR.  http://www.enchantedlearning.com/catego ... hool.shtml (http://www.enchantedlearning.com/categories/preschool.shtml)

Dolch Words are a great way to start reading after the little ones know their alphabet and letter sounds.  The Dolch words are sight words that should be memorized by the use of flash cards and exercises.  Here is the link.
http://www.enchantedlearning.com/dolch/ (http://www.enchantedlearning.com/dolch/)

QuoteAs a challenge, Dr. Seuss (Theodore Seuss Geisel) used only the Dolch words to write one of the most popular children's books, The Cat in the Hat.

Dolch Words:

Pre-primer (40 words)
a, and, away, big, blue, can, come, down, find, for, funny, go, help, here, I, in, is, it, jump, little, look, make, me, my, not, one, play, red, run, said, see, the, three, to, two, up, we, where, yellow, you

Primer (52 words)
all, am, are, at, ate, be, black, brown, but, came, did, do, eat, four, get, good, have, he, into, like, must, new, no, now, on, our, out, please, pretty, ran, ride, saw, say, she, so, soon, that, there, they, this, too, under, want, was, well, went, what, white, who, will, with, yes

Quote from: "notself"There are great books for preschoolers on Amazon and terrific material on a site called Enchanted Learning.  Terrific arts and crafts, silly poems, pre-math, pre-reading are all available at this site.  It only costs $20 per YEAR.  http://www.enchantedlearning.com/catego ... hool.shtml (http://www.enchantedlearning.com/categories/preschool.shtml)

Dolch Words are a great way to start reading after the little ones know their alphabet and letter sounds.  The Dolch words are sight words that should be memorized by the use of flash cards and exercises.  Here is the link.
http://www.enchantedlearning.com/dolch/ (http://www.enchantedlearning.com/dolch/)

QuoteAs a challenge, Dr. Seuss (Theodore Seuss Geisel) used only the Dolch words to write one of the most popular children's books, The Cat in the Hat.

Dolch Words:

Pre-primer (40 words)
a, and, away, big, blue, can, come, down, find, for, funny, go, help, here, I, in, is, it, jump, little, look, make, me, my, not, one, play, red, run, said, see, the, three, to, two, up, we, where, yellow, you

Primer (52 words)
all, am, are, at, ate, be, black, brown, but, came, did, do, eat, four, get, good, have, he, into, like, must, new, no, now, on, our, out, please, pretty, ran, ride, saw, say, she, so, soon, that, there, they, this, too, under, want, was, well, went, what, white, who, will, with, yes

Awesome thanks!

My youngest daughter loved Hairy Maclary
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hairy_Maclary (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hairy_Maclary)

This will be a little long sorry...

We are secular homeschoolers   We did public k and 1st with our oldest where he learned lots of great things about god and jesus from a little girl in his class who had a preacher for a dad. Then, he was always being sent home with crap to join boy scouts and all the other boys were in boy scouts except they don't accept Atheists and even if they did, he could end up with a super religious group. Oh and he was always coming home with comments about how Obama wasn't a christian, or that he wanted to take away our freedoms. Kids repeat their parents opinions a LOT I learned. Then he stopped wanting to eat anything fresh or raw or green or..well okay anything that wasn't super processed because the kids teased him at lunch if he did. On top of all that, his kindergarten teacher kept referring to his handwriting and drawing as "primitive" and she said it was all because he was the only child who didn't go to an actual preschool. Seriously, to determine a child is doomed for life in the first 3 days of school, based on his 5 year old drawing and writing is just ridiculous to me. But ya know, once they label them that's it.  Also they wanted him on stimulants because he was too distracted.
We finally realized that by sending our kids to a public school, we were just offering them up to be shaped into drones who never question anything for fear of being labeled and ostracized. In this family we question everything and everyone. We never shame or stop our children from questioning us either. Talking things through, creating an opinion based on facts and voicing your opinion is important to us. Learning to negotiate is not something our kids are going to learn in public school, because there is no negotiations there.

Anyways so we made the transition to homeschooling by doing second grade through a virtual public school. All of the curriculum was provided and the lessons were mapped out for it. This really helped us to ease our way into home learning and the responsibilities of providing our children with a great education. I was able to take notes of what I did and didn't like about the curriculum so that I can have a starting point for picking my own next year. I also got a very good look at exactly how my children learn best, what strategies to use to keep the learning fun, what time of day they are most focused, etc. This year will be our first year on our own completely. We can't wait to start. Oh and the adhd type behaviors that the school reported NEVER came up last year while we were doing one on one learning. My kid blows through a 400 page novel in 2 days, at 8 years old. Not sure how that would be possible if he was so easily distracted. Public schools are definitely a necessary option but they just didn't fit our family.

The state school system in the UK is more or less secular unless you use a state school, so my first son did 8 months of nursery (age 3/4) until he decided he didn't like it any more, and my second son is going to start the same nursery in September, I think it's more likely to be his thing.  I have no fear of them shoving Jesus down his throat because that's not the culture in non-faith schools here.
We are autonomous unschoolers and the home education community has notable numbers of orthodox religious people, but they are in the minority.  I think maybe there has to be a critical mass of non-religious home educators before it becomes practical, but that is well surpassed in Manchester.
I am considering the boy scouts, and have been refered to a list of alternative promises which vary from promising to "love god" but they are all appropriate to one religion or another.  Luckily I have a contact with a senior scouter locally so i can discuss it.  Although I don't have a problem with lying to get into the club, I think it might be difficult discussing with DS1 why he might want to make a false promise to get into the club, and that the scouts in the uk might be more inclusive of non-religious children.  He of course is not an atheist because he does not define himself as such.  He is exactly, precisely one boy.  He does not have an idea of defining a faith or lack thereof.