Realizing that the prevailing attitude here is that the Bible is just a collection of bronze/iron age myths and fabrications, I still think there is value and relevance in many of the stories that are found there, not to mention entertainment. In the Old Testament, the story of Joseph and his brothers, the story of Ruth, the story of Esther, and even the stories of Joshua's conquest of Canaan and Nehemiah's reconstruction of Jerusalem's walls are really good reading. Irrespective of whether you think they are true or historically accurate or not, the tales themselves have elements of irony and surprise, good plot and character development, and some decent morals and symbolism.
In the New Testament, some of the parables of Jesus are great short stories, such as the Good Samaritan, the Prodigal Son, and the story about Zacchaeus. Luke's account in Acts of Paul's sea voyage to Rome is a pretty good description of 1st Century travel.
As far as relevance goes, the story of Esther could inspire any young woman or girl to see that, no matter what her circumstances, her life matters and she can accomplish something significant. And in this age of xenophobia, racism, and suspicion of anyone different, who wouldn't benefit from learning the lessons of the Good Samaritan?
My point here is that even if you are not inclined to respect the Bible because of it's more suspect parts, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. There's some good reading in there. Maybe even a movie idea or two - like the 10 Command ... oh wait, that's already taken!
I agree with you, Ecurb, read with common sense there is a lot of interest and wisdom in the bible.
Read as the imutable word of a figure of fantasy however . . .
Even a broken clock is right twice a day. (https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fweb.stardock.net%2Fimages%2Fsmiles%2Fthemes%2Fdigicons%2FGagged.png&hash=9b545d9c6babbe58bf3eb16c42e338f7edf55876)
Quote from: No one on March 09, 2017, 06:03:57 PM
Even a broken clock is right twice a day. (https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fweb.stardock.net%2Fimages%2Fsmiles%2Fthemes%2Fdigicons%2FGagged.png&hash=9b545d9c6babbe58bf3eb16c42e338f7edf55876)
Making it more accurate than one that is losing a billionth of a second per millennia!
:)
Quote from: No one on March 09, 2017, 06:03:57 PM
Even a broken clock is right twice a day. (https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fweb.stardock.net%2Fimages%2Fsmiles%2Fthemes%2Fdigicons%2FGagged.png&hash=9b545d9c6babbe58bf3eb16c42e338f7edf55876)
And wrong 22 hours a day, wrong 1,320 minutes a day, and wrong 79,200 seconds every day. But hey, at least it's a clock right?
If the clock were broken in a different way, like it moved backwards, then it could be right four times a day. If was broken by running twice as fast, would only be right once a day.
On topic though, sure, some of the stories are alright. I find them to be highly outdated though. There are a lot more stories that are much better stories nowadays than what the bible offers. I'd personally prefer people teaching morals from The Twilight Zone than teaching morals from the bible.
The problem is not that the book is full of myths, parables and stories, the problem is that those stories are part of a package called "The Word of God", and many people take them to be literal Truths.
I like myths in general. There's nothing wrong with stories, I grew up listening to those biblical stories, but took them to be just that. Others did not.
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on March 11, 2017, 11:24:52 AM
The problem is not that the book is full of myths, parables and stories, the problem is that those stories are part of a package called "The Word of God", and many people take them to be literal Truths.
I like myths in general. There's nothing wrong with stories, I grew up listening to those biblical stories, but took them to be just that. Others did not.
Yes, one can learn something about human nature, behaviour, psychology, philosphy etc from the Bible.
But you can do so from Terry Pratchett as well!
:D
My 13-year-old son was awarded a certificate at school.
It says:
This certificate is awarded to, D R-C, in recognition of demonstrating honesty.
I've never taken him to church, I've talked to him about the bible and god, but not in a good way, so where did he learn honesty?
From atheists?
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi3.kym-cdn.com%2Fphotos%2Fimages%2Foriginal%2F000%2F155%2F594%2Fyesitis2.gif&hash=6858792889eb019a716e4506adb0710fb87a3813)
:grin:
Quote from: Magdalena on March 11, 2017, 07:37:33 PM
My 13-year-old son was awarded a certificate at school.
It says:
This certificate is awarded to, D R-C, in recognition of demonstrating honesty.
I've never taken him to church, I've talked to him about the bible and god, but not in a good way, so where did he learn honesty?
From atheists?
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi3.kym-cdn.com%2Fphotos%2Fimages%2Foriginal%2F000%2F155%2F594%2Fyesitis2.gif&hash=6858792889eb019a716e4506adb0710fb87a3813)
:grin:
Well, I assume he learned it from you. Children do learn from their parents. Where did you learn it?
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on March 12, 2017, 06:17:48 AM
Quote from: Magdalena on March 11, 2017, 07:37:33 PM
My 13-year-old son was awarded a certificate at school.
It says:
This certificate is awarded to, D R-C, in recognition of demonstrating honesty.
I've never taken him to church, I've talked to him about the bible and god, but not in a good way, so where did he learn honesty?
From atheists?
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi3.kym-cdn.com%2Fphotos%2Fimages%2Foriginal%2F000%2F155%2F594%2Fyesitis2.gif&hash=6858792889eb019a716e4506adb0710fb87a3813)
:grin:
Well, I assume he learned it from you. Children do learn from their parents. Where did you learn it?
I learned it from my grandpa and uncle, both atheists, they raised me.
My man, their father, is an atheist also. I believe his father was an atheist.
Why is so difficult for people to believe that atheists are capable of treating others with respect and kindness without expecting an eternal reward for it? Is it a sacrifice for religious people to treat others with respect and kindness? Would they still do it if they weren't getting a huge reward for it? Would they still do it if no god was "watching them"? Maybe, but I've always wondered...what does a dog do when you take off the leash?
Quote from: Magdalena on March 12, 2017, 06:50:26 AM
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on March 12, 2017, 06:17:48 AM
Quote from: Magdalena on March 11, 2017, 07:37:33 PM
My 13-year-old son was awarded a certificate at school.
It says:
This certificate is awarded to, D R-C, in recognition of demonstrating honesty.
I've never taken him to church, I've talked to him about the bible and god, but not in a good way, so where did he learn honesty?
From atheists?
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi3.kym-cdn.com%2Fphotos%2Fimages%2Foriginal%2F000%2F155%2F594%2Fyesitis2.gif&hash=6858792889eb019a716e4506adb0710fb87a3813)
:grin:
Well, I assume he learned it from you. Children do learn from their parents. Where did you learn it?
I learned it from my grandpa and uncle, both atheists, they raised me.
My man, their father, is an atheist also. I believe his father was an atheist.
Why is so difficult for people to believe that atheists are capable of treating others with respect and kindness without expecting an eternal reward for it? Is it a sacrifice for religious people to treat others with respect and kindness? Would they still do it if they weren't getting a huge reward for it? Would they still do it if no god was "watching them"? Maybe, but I've always wondered...what does a dog do when you take off the leash?
My dogs are pretty good off their leashes. I've taken them for walks like that before.
Quote from: Arturo on March 12, 2017, 08:37:20 PM
Quote from: Magdalena on March 12, 2017, 06:50:26 AM
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on March 12, 2017, 06:17:48 AM
Quote from: Magdalena on March 11, 2017, 07:37:33 PM
My 13-year-old son was awarded a certificate at school.
It says:
This certificate is awarded to, D R-C, in recognition of demonstrating honesty.
I've never taken him to church, I've talked to him about the bible and god, but not in a good way, so where did he learn honesty?
From atheists?
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi3.kym-cdn.com%2Fphotos%2Fimages%2Foriginal%2F000%2F155%2F594%2Fyesitis2.gif&hash=6858792889eb019a716e4506adb0710fb87a3813)
:grin:
Well, I assume he learned it from you. Children do learn from their parents. Where did you learn it?
I learned it from my grandpa and uncle, both atheists, they raised me.
My man, their father, is an atheist also. I believe his father was an atheist.
Why is so difficult for people to believe that atheists are capable of treating others with respect and kindness without expecting an eternal reward for it? Is it a sacrifice for religious people to treat others with respect and kindness? Would they still do it if they weren't getting a huge reward for it? Would they still do it if no god was "watching them"? Maybe, but I've always wondered...what does a dog do when you take off the leash?
My dogs are pretty good off their leashes. I've taken them for walks like that before.
Don't try it round here, max fine is £2000 if the dog warden or a copper sees you! Never actually seen the fog warden in the 20 years I have lived here though, and most police officers duck away to avoid the paperwork. Never got the prosecutor to take the person whose Rottweiler bit me, on a public path, to court.
(Just to be clear that
was "public path" and not my typo for "pubic part"!)
Quote from: Arturo on March 12, 2017, 08:37:20 PM
Quote from: Magdalena on March 12, 2017, 06:50:26 AM
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on March 12, 2017, 06:17:48 AM
Quote from: Magdalena on March 11, 2017, 07:37:33 PM
My 13-year-old son was awarded a certificate at school.
It says:
This certificate is awarded to, D R-C, in recognition of demonstrating honesty.
I've never taken him to church, I've talked to him about the bible and god, but not in a good way, so where did he learn honesty?
From atheists?
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi3.kym-cdn.com%2Fphotos%2Fimages%2Foriginal%2F000%2F155%2F594%2Fyesitis2.gif&hash=6858792889eb019a716e4506adb0710fb87a3813)
:grin:
Well, I assume he learned it from you. Children do learn from their parents. Where did you learn it?
I learned it from my grandpa and uncle, both atheists, they raised me.
My man, their father, is an atheist also. I believe his father was an atheist.
Why is so difficult for people to believe that atheists are capable of treating others with respect and kindness without expecting an eternal reward for it? Is it a sacrifice for religious people to treat others with respect and kindness? Would they still do it if they weren't getting a huge reward for it? Would they still do it if no god was "watching them"? Maybe, but I've always wondered...what does a dog do when you take off the leash?
My dogs are pretty good off their leashes. I've taken them for walks like that before.
OK. Just to be clear, I was speaking in a metaphorical way. :shifty:
It must be difficult for some people to be kind to other people so they need to go to church every week. They are reminded every Sunday that god loves them, even if they hate everyone around them and god will forgive them, no matter what. To me, that's like needing a "leash" around your neck all the time to help you "be good." Only they know what they would do to others if this "moral leash" is removed by their master. :worried:
I'm more like your dogs, I don't need a leash. :grin:
Quote from: Gloucester on March 12, 2017, 08:50:47 PM
...
(Just to be clear that was "public path" and not my typo for "pubic part"!)
:lol:
Quote from: Magdalena on March 12, 2017, 06:50:26 AM
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on March 12, 2017, 06:17:48 AM
Quote from: Magdalena on March 11, 2017, 07:37:33 PM
My 13-year-old son was awarded a certificate at school.
It says:
This certificate is awarded to, D R-C, in recognition of demonstrating honesty.
I've never taken him to church, I've talked to him about the bible and god, but not in a good way, so where did he learn honesty?
From atheists?
(https://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi3.kym-cdn.com%2Fphotos%2Fimages%2Foriginal%2F000%2F155%2F594%2Fyesitis2.gif&hash=6858792889eb019a716e4506adb0710fb87a3813)
:grin:
Well, I assume he learned it from you. Children do learn from their parents. Where did you learn it?
I learned it from my grandpa and uncle, both atheists, they raised me.
My man, their father, is an atheist also. I believe his father was an atheist.
Why is so difficult for people to believe that atheists are capable of treating others with respect and kindness without expecting an eternal reward for it? Is it a sacrifice for religious people to treat others with respect and kindness? Would they still do it if they weren't getting a huge reward for it? Would they still do it if no god was "watching them"? Maybe, but I've always wondered...what does a dog do when you take off the leash?
I didn't say it was difficult. I simply observed that children usually learn from their parents. If their parents teach them honesty, it will become part of their moral constitution. I don't think it has anything to do with religion.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on March 09, 2017, 05:24:03 PM
Realizing that the prevailing attitude here is that the Bible is just a collection of bronze/iron age myths and fabrications, I still think there is value and relevance in many of the stories that are found there, not to mention entertainment. In the Old Testament, the story of Joseph and his brothers, the story of Ruth, the story of Esther, and even the stories of Joshua's conquest of Canaan and Nehemiah's reconstruction of Jerusalem's walls are really good reading. Irrespective of whether you think they are true or historically accurate or not, the tales themselves have elements of irony and surprise, good plot and character development, and some decent morals and symbolism.
In the New Testament, some of the parables of Jesus are great short stories, such as the Good Samaritan, the Prodigal Son, and the story about Zacchaeus. Luke's account in Acts of Paul's sea voyage to Rome is a pretty good description of 1st Century travel.
As far as relevance goes, the story of Esther could inspire any young woman or girl to see that, no matter what her circumstances, her life matters and she can accomplish something significant. And in this age of xenophobia, racism, and suspicion of anyone different, who wouldn't benefit from learning the lessons of the Good Samaritan?
My point here is that even if you are not inclined to respect the Bible because of it's more suspect parts, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. There's some good reading in there. Maybe even a movie idea or two - like the 10 Command ... oh wait, that's already taken!
I agree there are some good stories in the bible, some of which are interesting to read, even some which could possibly be used to teach ethics or morality, or along the lines of Esther which you mentioned could be inspiring, though maybe not entirely a moral story, after all doesn't Haman get killed at the end?
Another thing I alway's found interesting about the book of Esther is that the name of God is never directly mentioned in the book, nor miracles if I remember correctly?
For all of the good stories in the bible, and by good perhaps you mean moral or teachable there are so many horrible stories, like what happened to Korah and his followers, who were swallowed up and murdered by the Lord, all 250 of them simply because they dared question Moses, but even far horrible is what happened to the 14,700 Israelites, including children, babies who were killed by the plague brought down by the Lord for being upset about the death or Korah and his followers.
Wouldn't and couldn't the same be said about other holy or revered books of scriptures from other religions? Do you feel the same about the Quran or the Bhagavad Gita?
There are good stories in the Quran as well, stories and passages which teach patience, respect, even tolerance. Do we throw this out with the bathwater because of the suspect parts, same with the Bhagavad Gita?
I find inspirational stories in all types of books or stories which exist outside the bible, most of what I quote or use in my life such as teaching tools for my children when they were young were fictional. I guess I would refrain from using the bible in that regard because their is alway's the element of the supernatural, some miracle's saving grace which we all know do not occur in regular life.
I would like to see a good moving of Jonah and the Fish, that would be interesting indeed, especially with what they can accomplish now with special effects.
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on March 11, 2017, 11:24:52 AM
The problem is not that the book is full of myths, parables and stories, the problem is that those stories are part of a package called "The Word of God", and many people take them to be literal Truths.
I like myths in general. There's nothing wrong with stories, I grew up listening to those biblical stories, but took them to be just that. Others did not.
There are many stories I had issues with when I was growing up. I think there are many things wrong with many of the stories.
Job is probably the biggest one. God punishes not just Job, but Jobs family were murdered by god just to prove a point. In the end, to fix everything, god just gives Job a new family. Not the same family that had been faking it an hiding until they jumped from behind Ashton Kutcher, but an entirely new family. I always had a problem with that story, even the "kid friendly" version.
The binding of Isaac is another one I've always had a problem with, the one that showed that the god lies. Lying was taught to be bad, and god was taught to be best, goodest, most righteous being of all time. The god is not supposed to do bad things. But god is lying to Abraham, telling him to sacrifice Isaac when he had no intention of letting Abraham kill Isaac. Also, the idea that faith is proven not in risking ones own life, but in risking another's life to test ones faith never sounded like a good idea to me.
There are a bunch more that I've had a problem with since I first heard them as a kid.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on March 13, 2017, 11:42:43 AM
I didn't say it was difficult. I simply observed that children usually learn from their parents. If their parents teach them honesty, it will become part of their moral constitution. I don't think it has anything to do with religion.
You don't think it has anything to do with religion, but other religious people do. They think that without god's guidance there's no way one can know how to be kind to others. :sad sigh:
I agree with the
Davin and
Gloucester:
DavinQuoteI'd personally prefer people teaching morals from The Twilight Zone than teaching morals from the bible.
GloucesterQuoteYes, one can learn something about human nature, behavior, psychology, philosophy etc from the Bible.
But you can do so from Terry Pratchett as well!
...And atheists. :smilenod:
Quote from: Magdalena on March 13, 2017, 04:08:36 PM
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on March 13, 2017, 11:42:43 AM
I didn't say it was difficult. I simply observed that children usually learn from their parents. If their parents teach them honesty, it will become part of their moral constitution. I don't think it has anything to do with religion.
You don't think it has anything to do with religion, but other religious people do. They think that without god's guidance there's no way one can know how to be kind to others. :sad sigh:
I agree with the Davin and Gloucester:
Davin
QuoteI'd personally prefer people teaching morals from The Twilight Zone than teaching morals from the bible.
Gloucester
QuoteYes, one can learn something about human nature, behavior, psychology, philosophy etc from the Bible.
But you can do so from Terry Pratchett as well!
...And atheists. :smilenod:
The late Sir Terry Pratchett, OBE, valued be his memory, was a devout humanist.