Happy Atheist Forum

Quote from: "MommaSquid"

Quote from: "Amor Fati"And most recently there have been renewed movements to print official government documents only in english, and other shit like that.

You have a problem with this?

I have to say both Yes and No. From a legal perspective, it's necessary for laws and contracts to be written in English because translating such things and their meanings in another language presents nightmares to the legal system and social expectations. I'm actually a proponent of passing a law that says that all laws and contracts must be written in English. However, I am against a law that says on a blanket basis that English is the official language of the USA. In reality, it would have no teeth and it would send an ugly signal about the USA to the rest of the world.

I think it is helpful to have certain documents printed in other languages. The USA has always been an immigrant nation and by all evidence will continue to be. In the first 150 years of the USA, the illiteracy rate was quite high, so printing documents in other languages was pointless. We had a lot of born-and-bred US citizens who couldn't read English and many of the immigrants couldn't read their own languages. It was quite common to have verbal translators on hand at immigration stations. In the last 50-60 years, immigrants rarely enter through just a few naval ports, like New York or San Francicso. Like everyone else, they fly into the USA at just about any airport. The phrase "just got off the boat" has an archaic meaning. Literacy is quite high compared to 70 years ago. Written documents become necessary because the world is more complex and simple instructions cannot be provided verbally at 2-3 immigration stations as the immigrants exit their vessel.

I believe that many people think that English is a birthright. It's not. The only reason English is such a predominant language is because we write the books. We publish more works than any other country in the world and our works have significant economic impact. That's why English became so prevalent. If you want to know the language of science, it's English. If you are a scientist and can't communicate in English at least in a passing manner, you will not be taken seriously. Science is the economy. What most people don't realize is that until about the early 1970s, French was the predominant language spoken by all commercial pilots of the seas and skies. If you didn't speak French, you couldn't fly a plane internationally. So, every pilot had to learn some French because that was "lingua franca" of air traffic control towers and airports. The French at one time controlled the world. That ended. And, sadly, so will English.

English is just a mismash of other languages. German, Greek, Latin ... it's all in there somewhere. We even anglicize words from other languages, and other languages adopt our words (computer terminology worldwide is nearly universally English). English is in power because that is the language of the economy and published books that contain valuable information that others need. No law can change that.  The language that people speak will actually change that. The Native Americans had their language, they were invaded by the Spanish which became the predominant language, then the French, then the English. Some claim that the Spanish have risen again, but they need to look in the rearview mirror.

Our language isn't a function of law or "by gosh it should just be that way", but rather our language is a function of the value English speakers provide to the rest of the world. Right now that is science and technology. This issue of language is another reason why you don't want the Chinese doing scientific research and development. Chinese is the most spoken language in the world; Spanish is second. About 1/5 of all people on the planet speak some form of Chinese. The true rate of Chinese literacy is unknown. China has become an economic powerhouse and they are getting bigger. Do we want the Chinese investing in stem cell research, publishing those papers only in Chinese and monopolizing the industry? Forget about publishing government documents in Spanish, Korean or Tagalog, because you will be rearraging chairs on a ship that has already sunk.

My daughter is the product of a Cuban-American marriage. I speak passable Spanish, but to my dismay my daughter speaks less than that. We are working on that issue. I recognized in high school that history shows that different languages are predominant at different times in history for different reasons. No law controls history. I learned that Spanish was a language I needed to know because more people in the Western Hemisphere speak Spanish than English, so I took Spanish classes for years. My marriage to a Cuban was a coincidence, and a good one because I learned Spanish much better as a result. My daughter just finished a Chinese summer program for talented and gifted students. I wish she had gone through a Spanish summer program, but guess what -- there wasn't one available in our area. (The program also had two native Spanish-speaking students in it.) At least she is learning about China and the Chinese language. She will need those skills in the future. The numbers bear out that fact. I must make sure that she is academically and  economically prepared for the future.

I decided a long time ago not to swim upstream. It's a lot of time and energy wasted. I get to enjoy a lot more of the world if I join the flow. My 3 cents.

Looks like I'm not likely to become a US-citizen with my lousy 55%
score  :cry: .

Quote from: "Tom62"Looks like I'm not likely to become a US-citizen with my lousy 55%
score  :cry: .

What a loser

I managed 100%.

Well we don't want any of your waffles, ya Belgian! Just kidding.

Quote from: "Big Mac"Well we don't want any of your waffles, ya Belgian! Just kidding.

Actually waffles sound pretty tasty right now.

BRB getting maple syrup.

Just get it from Jassman or another Canadian.

Quote from: "Aullios"What a loser

I managed 100%.

Well at least I didn't cheat by looking up the answers on the Internet :wink: .

I'm just wondering how high you would score on a foreign citizen test. Try this one, if you think that you are so smart: http://www.teleac.nl/nationaleinburgeringtest/# (http://www.teleac.nl/nationaleinburgeringtest/#)

Quote from: "Big Mac"Well we don't want any of your waffles, ya Belgian! Just kidding.

Well, we don't want your lousy beer, fast food and foreign politics. Just kidding(?)

Quote from: "Tom62"

Quote from: "Aullios"What a loser

I managed 100%.

Well at least I didn't cheat by looking up the answers on the Internet :wink: .

I'm just wondering how high you would score on a foreign citizen test. Try this one, if you think that you are so smart: http://www.teleac.nl/nationaleinburgeringtest/# (http://www.teleac.nl/nationaleinburgeringtest/#)

That's not fair, I can't even read that :p

Quote from: "Tom62"

Quote from: "Big Mac"Well we don't want any of your waffles, ya Belgian! Just kidding.

Well, we don't want your lousy beer, fast food and foreign politics. Just kidding(?)

Then why did you people take David Hasslehoff? We Americans thank you for that!

What has David Hasselhoff to do with beer, fast food or foreign politics?

Quote from: "Tom62"What has David Hasselhoff to do with beer, fast food or foreign politics?

What do you have to do with David Hasslehoff, Mr. Von Baron?

No comprendo. I not good speaking Ingles, I have only 55% of cititzen questions good. Questions not include David Hasslehoff :oops: .

Quote from: "Tom62"No comprendo. I not good speaking Ingles, I have only 55% of cititzen questions good. Questions not include David Hasslehoff :oops: .

How about some Brautworst! Yah yah!?

Das droht uns wenn wir versagen- darum kampf bis zum sieg!

Eucopas sieg dein wohlstand!!!!

Ja, ja ich habe a very big Bratwurst. Meine Frau is damit very satisfied, ja.
German Bratwurst ist better dann American Hamburgers.
Together with ze "freedom fries" von froggies, wir "Old Europa" werden siegen.

Eric Cartman: "Es ist Zeit für Rache!"

Crowd: "Wir müssen die Juden ausrotten!!!!"

I liked your previous message more. Although I'm not a fan of Israel, I don't think that we should do they same evil thing as what Hitler did with the jews in WWII.

That's off of South Park. You have to see the episode to get the joke. The crowd thinks they're speaking Aramaic after watching the Passion of the Christ.

Well, in that case you are forgiven   . I'm not so familiar with South Park, they do show it here on TV, but only at a very late hour and dubbed in friggin' German (that's why I'm not watching the show).

Oh wait, I am a racist! You can't forgive me!!!

I wonder how they would dub that? Even though the pronunciation is wrong in the English version, I wonder what they would make it sound like in the German version. Well they probably wouldn't show it. Cartman is in a little hitler costume and he has the hitler stand and everything.

QuoteI wonder how they would dub that? Even though the pronunciation is wrong in the English version, I wonder what they would make it sound like in the German version. Well they probably wouldn't show it. Cartman is in a little hitler costume and he has the hitler stand and everything.

I don't think they would show the episode either, because Germans are still too much afraid to hurt any jewish feelings. Sometimes they go so far in it that makes me wanna puke.

Well I can kind of see why, seeing as 6 million were killed off. The funny thing is that I find Jews tend to be the most humorous people when it comes to tragedies and racially stereotypes regarding themselves. Though people get a little to PC in the States it makes me want to induce projectile vomit.

But at least you guys are still able to bring out good movies like "Team America". One of my favourite scenes of this movie:

Kim Jong Il: Hans Brix? Oh no! Oh, herro. Great to see you again, Hans!
Hans Blix: Mr. Il, I was supposed to be allowed to inspect your palace today, but your guards won't let me enter certain areas.
Kim Jong Il: Hans, Hans, Hans! We've been frew this a dozen times. I don't have any weapons of mass destwuction, OK Hans?
Hans Blix: Then let me look around, so I can ease the UN's collective mind. I'm sorry, but the UN must be firm with you. Let me in, or else.
Kim Jong Il: Or else what?
Hans Blix: Or else we will be very angry with you... and we will write you a letter, telling you how angry we are.

Quote from: "Tom62"I'm just wondering how high you would score on a foreign citizen test. Try this one, if you think that you are so smart: http://www.teleac.nl/nationaleinburgeringtest/# (http://www.teleac.nl/nationaleinburgeringtest/#)

Just for fun, I tried the test.  I couldn't read it, but got a 1,7...whatever that means (I think it means I failed since it listed the score at the bottom of a list of other things I can't read)

Quote from: "Tom62"Well, in that case you are forgiven   . I'm not so familiar with South Park, they do show it here on TV, but only at a very late hour and dubbed in friggin' German (that's why I'm not watching the show).

Here is a clip of cartman from the passion of the christ episode.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9QLBost_xg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9QLBost_xg)

Thanks for the clip, that was really hilarious.

P.S. don't worry about your 1,7 score (don't know what that means either), since I haven't met anyone yet who passed the test.

I scored a 60%. go me! and a 1,5 by clicking totally random answers. yeah! (i don't even know if that's good)

Quote from: "Big Mac"Oh wait, I am a racist! You can't forgive me!!!

I wonder how they would dub that? Even though the pronunciation is wrong in the English version, I wonder what they would make it sound like in the German version. Well they probably wouldn't show it. Cartman is in a little hitler costume and he has the hitler stand and everything.

How can you be a racist, when you, yourself, are, as you said yourself, 'dark skinned'?  Unless you are just winding us up?  I don't know when to believe you.  Are you sometimes subjected to racial abuse, by the way?

I, myself, am not racist, since Jesus himself was not 'white', but a Jew, and both creationists and evolutionists agree that life began somewhere in the middle east (dark skinned) - so how can white people be 'superior'?, since we are probably a genetic mutation?

I speak good England

Quote from: "onlyme"

Quote from: "Big Mac"Oh wait, I am a racist! You can't forgive me!!!

I wonder how they would dub that? Even though the pronunciation is wrong in the English version, I wonder what they would make it sound like in the German version. Well they probably wouldn't show it. Cartman is in a little hitler costume and he has the hitler stand and everything.

How can you be a racist, when you, yourself, are, as you said yourself, 'dark skinned'?  Unless you are just winding us up?  I don't know when to believe you.  Are you sometimes subjected to racial abuse, by the way?

I, myself, am not racist, since Jesus himself was not 'white', but a Jew, and both creationists and evolutionists agree that life began somewhere in the middle east (dark skinned) - so how can white people be 'superior'?, since we are probably a genetic mutation?

I speak good England

Eh, I'm sort of a self-hating mexican. And I"m not too fond of black culture either. I grew up in a white environment. I barely speak spanish and the only thing about me that is really Mexican is that my skin is tan. Other than that, I"m a white man.

I'm not really racist, I just don't like ebonics, hip hop, You Got Served, and other various retarded shit.

By the way, are all you english people dropped on the head when you're born? It's kind of easy to tell when I'm sarcastic/joking. Or is it? *cue Twilight Zone music*

The English have a bizarre sense of humor. We get the BBC channel at my house and it freaks me out and is incredibly not funny. Ever.

Eh, English people also have bad teeth and their heads flap.....wait the head flapping is Canadians.

THey also talk funny. At least we Americans speak English correctly.

You mean slang? We Americans are experts at that.

Quote from: "Big Mac"Eh, English people also have bad teeth and their heads flap.....wait the head flapping is Canadians.

THey also talk funny. At least we Americans speak English correctly.

You Americans speak English correctly?  Ha ha.  Tell me another one.

You call crisps ..'chips'
and you call chips 'fries'
and you call tea 'dinner'
and...oh....I just remembered, I've only got one life...better not waste so much of it correcting you yanks on how to speak good English, which we invented, by the way.

Oh, how you've strayed from the path, Bigmac (can I have chips with that?)

Yeah, we improved it. Just like you europeans invented guns, we American improved on them (making the revolver, the machine gun, the suppressor, the pump shotgun, etc.). We made the English Language a highly sought item by various ethnic groups.

You guys just make it sound funny and need to talk like Americans, the Master Race! Now everyone, get into formation for Goose-stepping!

Wait, Brits call dinner "tea"? But, we don't drink tea at dinner. We eat. That's why it's a meal not named after a drink.

What's this "we" business? If "you" (meaning your ancient ancestors) invented English, so did "we" (as most white Americans' ancestors would be the same as your own).

And, as an English major, it's difficult for me to say which "language" is better. I've grown accustomed to Brit Lit, and I like it, but I also like American Lit, because it's less formal and stuffy.
But, I haven't read a British woman author I haven't like yet. Even Woolf.

Didn't we invent chips?  Therefore, they're called chips.

Fries are called "fries" because the French invented them, and called them "frites" (French for "fried").

As for dinner, what Court said.

Bigmac wrote:

"You guys just make it sound funny and need to talk like Americans, the Master Race! Now everyone, get into formation for Goose-stepping!"

Right on:

http://www.new-enlightenment.com/nazification_step4.htm (http://www.new-enlightenment.com/nazification_step4.htm)

Listen, our offspring from across the pond.  I'm only going to say this once, so pay attention, OK?

Dinner is a meal eaten at dinnertime (i.e. noon)

Tea is a meal eaten at tea-time (early evening, say 5pm)

Have you got that?  Repeat after me.....

Come back to your roots.  All is forgiven.

In southern usa dinner is called supper.  We dont' have tea time...so it would be silly for us to call the last meal of the day "tea."

QuoteHobbits enjoy at least seven meals a day when they can get them.

Mealtimes mentioned by Tolkien include breakfast, second breakfast, elevenses, lunch, Noon tea, dinner, and supper.

Hobbits (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobbit)

laetus, you said:
In southern usa dinner is called supper.

There you go!  You don't even have consistency across the different states.  What hope is there for mankind, I ask you, if this practice is prevalent in your country?  Stick to the original ENGLISH.  At least we have consistency across our great, green and pleasant land.

To add further to my original list of mealtimes:

Supper is a light meal eaten before bedtime.

Hence: Breakfast - dinner - tea - supper.

There, now you are one of the priveliged, enlightened few.  Pass it on.

Maybe priveliged is a wrong spelling.  It's a long time since I left school.

To add further to my above posting:

I've looked at the test for American citizenship.  I didn't take it, coz I knew I would probably fail miserably.  But judging by some of the second hand English on this forum, and in American society in general, almost NONE of you would pass as a British citizen.

Mommasquid:

Hobbits?  What was all that about, then?

Why would we want to?

Does the British citizenship test require that everyone define meal times in a certain manner...gee...that's picky. ;)

I bet I could beat your country's Citzenship tests. What is it with you Brits and believing only Brits can pass your tests? That's what we call Facism and elitism. Something that hasn't left Europe or "enlightened" (IE People's Repulbic of Communifornia and New Marx) parts of the US. The parts we could really just carpet bomb and go on with our lives.

Quote from: "onlyme"To add further to my above posting:

I've looked at the test for American citizenship.  I didn't take it, coz I knew I would probably fail miserably.  But judging by some of the second hand English on this forum, and in American society in general, almost NONE of you would pass as a British citizen.

Well, of course not. My teeth are much too straight.

Of course the Brits have consistency of language, for the most part (although, I'm sure there are different dialects, even in your tiny-ass country). It's little! Asking Americans to all speak the same "English" is like expecting all of Europe to speak the same language! In other words, stupid.

I think it's rather arrogant of you to call America "offspring" when nearly half (or maybe over, I'm not sure) or our population is black, Hispanic, Native American, or Asian. I, for one, am all German, Native American, Irish, and Dutch. This is an immigrant country now. Not a British offspring. Get over yourselves.

court wrote:

"I, for one, am all German, Native American, Irish, and Dutch."

Does that mean you are half German, half native American, half Irish and half Dutch?

Just a joke.  Lighten up, already!

MikeyV wrote

"Well, of course not. My teeth are much too straight.
2   
Of course, MikeyV..  Don't you know that in England, the Americans, especially the women, are referred to as being 'all hair and teeth'?

I kid you not.

Quote from: "MikeyV"

Quote from: "onlyme"To add further to my above posting:

I've looked at the test for American citizenship.  I didn't take it, coz I knew I would probably fail miserably.  But judging by some of the second hand English on this forum, and in American society in general, almost NONE of you would pass as a British citizen.

Well, of course not. My teeth are much too straight.

Yeah and my skin isn't pale like picket fence.

Speaking of which, Court brings up a good point. I'm of Irish/Mexican/French/and one-more-I-don't-care-to-mention descent.

Quote from: "onlyme"MikeyV wrote

"Well, of course not. My teeth are much too straight.
2   
Of course, MikeyV..  Don't you know that in England, the Americans, especially the women, are referred to as being 'all hair and teeth'?

I kid you not.

We Americans don't give a shit, I kid you not.

Spanish-German-Acadian-Hispanic-Scotch-Creole-Cherokee-English-French (in order by percentage) here.

I mostly just claim the Cajun though

I'm full Czech.  Both of my biological parents were second generation Czech Americans (I don't know how they met each other, there is probably a Czech community where they lived).

German, Czech, mutt.  All American.

My apologies for reviving this particular thread, but I thought some of you might get some entertainment from the web site I'm going to mention here.

As I've said elsewhere, my wife is a U.S. citizen, and even after several years of marriage we still stumble across words and phrases now and then which surprise us because of the differences in American usage and British usage. During our earliest times together, we frequently found differences in American English and Brit English and they often caused much hilarity. Some of the differences are well know and I'm sure you are all familiar with some of the best examples.  However, if you are curious about more than the most commonly known examples, you might enjoy taking a look at The Best of British: An American's guide to speaking British (http://www.effingpot.com/index.shtml).  This contains over 1000 words and expressions which differ in usage in the U.S. and the U.K.  Some are pretty funny, and I can vouch for the accuracy of most of them.  Even this list isn't totally comprehensive, but it's a good start.

Quote from: "Woody"My apologies for reviving this particular thread, but I thought some of you might get some entertainment from the web site I'm going to mention here.

As I've said elsewhere, my wife is a U.S. citizen, and even after several years of marriage we still stumble across words and phrases now and then which surprise us because of the differences in American usage and British usage. During our earliest times together, we frequently found differences in American English and Brit English and they often caused much hilarity. Some of the differences are well know and I'm sure you are all familiar with some of the best examples.  However, if you are curious about more than the most commonly known examples, you might enjoy taking a look at The Best of British: An American's guide to speaking British (http://www.effingpot.com/index.shtml).  This contains over 1000 words and expressions which differ in usage in the U.S. and the U.K.  Some are pretty funny, and I can vouch for the accuracy of most of them.  Even this list isn't totally comprehensive, but it's a good start.

Thanks for posting it Woody. I'm looking forward to reading it.

Quote from: "Woody"However, if you are curious about more than the most commonly known examples, you might enjoy taking a look at The Best of British: An American's guide to speaking British (http://www.effingpot.com/index.shtml).  This contains over 1000 words and expressions which differ in usage in the U.S. and the U.K.  Some are pretty funny, and I can vouch for the accuracy of most of them.  Even this list isn't totally comprehensive, but it's a good start.

Great Woody - thanks much...
Sites like this are a lot of fun (plus a great resource for me).

Quote from: "McQ"Thanks for posting it Woody. I'm looking forward to reading it.

You're welcome McQ. I hope you enjoy it. :)

Local dialects aren't really covered on the site, which is a pity.  It was difficult for my wife to understand the Lancashire dialect and accent when she first arrived here, but she is coming along fine now.  She can even say things such as, "Put leet eawt, will thi?", instead of,  "please switch off the light". This is a whole study in itself of course, and I should probably spare you more detail.

Quote from: "Woody"

Quote from: "joeactor"Great Woody - thanks much...
Sites like this are a lot of fun (plus a great resource for me).

Always glad to be of service, sir!  No, really, glad you like the material and have a use for it! ;)

For local dialects, I use English Accents and Dialects (http://www.collectbritain.co.uk/collections/dialects/) as an audio reference...