Question for Struggling Atheists

[Liar For Jesus]

YODACHODA said :'Yeah, I would love to be a theist.  It definitely leads to a happier life I think'

Reply:    This is an interesting statement  ;   why do you see atheism as a less happier life ?

I get this.  I don't necessarily think that theism would lead to a happier life, but I understand how it helps with some of the harder parts of life.  Like for me, I have to admit that I'm kind of....scared of death, I guess.  Like, I think about not existing any more, and I know that it won't matter to me then, but I really want to keep existing.  I want to know what the world is like in a thousand years, or a million, and it makes me sad that no part of my consciousness will be around to witness it.  I think about the people I love dying, my parents, my brother, my husband, my son, and it's a punch in the stomach.  How lovely would it be to believe that even once they die, we'll all be together again someday.  Accepting their mortality and my own is the hardest part of atheism to me.  I also understand how hard it is to realize that you are powerless against an indifferent world.  When catastrophes happen, often we can't do much to help with them.  Some larger catastrophes like natural disasters give you the opportunity to donate money and/or services to feel like you are doing something, but often smaller more personal tragedies (like a friend developing cancer) leave you feeling like there is little that you can do to help, other than be there to support them, bring them food, et cetera.  But with those personal tragedies, you want to do more!  You want to be able to heal them, make it better!  And most often, you can't.  So I can see why prayer is seductive, making you feel like just maybe, you can help them heal.  My bottom line is, I don't think atheism is for the faint of heart.  I think it takes a certain kind of courage to stare into the abyss, so to speak, and not turn to comforting fairy tales. 

What you said was pretty profound because I share in your assessment regarding death as well as suffering .  I guess in this sense, atheism doesnt nor cant offer any solace or true hope beyond the grave.  Whereas if the Christian Faith for example  turns out to be true, then,  it would offer something very substantial in this regard , namely,  that this world would not be all there is and that the struggles, suffering, and physical death we experience  wouldnt have the final say .   As for life after death,  from the study ive done on this topic,  there is very good evidence that our consciousness does continue after our physical body flatlines.  A really good unbiased book on this subject is one called :'To Hell and Back' written by a Surgeon named Dr. Maurice Rawlings  who as an atheist started recording and documenting actual accounts of people dying  then being resussitated in his presence .  I couldnt put the book down.

[Tank]

YODACHODA said :'Yeah, I would love to be a theist.  It definitely leads to a happier life I think'

Reply:    This is an interesting statement  ;   why do you see atheism as a less happier life ?

Because theists have an excuse for everything. If there is a God nobody is responsible for anything we're just playthings and puppets of something we can't possibly understand.

[Liar For Jesus]

YODACHODA said :'Yeah, I would love to be a theist.  It definitely leads to a happier life I think'

Reply:    This is an interesting statement  ;   why do you see atheism as a less happier life ?

Because theists have an excuse for everything. If there is a God nobody is responsible for anything we're just playthings and puppets of something we can't possibly understand.

How does 'Theists having an answer for everything'  result in an atheist having a less happier life (as the Poster YodaChoda declared) ?   What is the tie to that ?!

If there is a God that  gave us our self evident moral conscience to live morally by , then it  WOULD make us responsible for our actions ;  if there IS a personal intelligent Creator (God)  who fashioned the entire Universe including all the required many laws of physics so Earth could sustain human life...then we would hardly be inconsequential playthings and puppets  .  And further,  given this extreme example of planning and excersised care...it WOULD be possible to understand.   I guess theres alot riding on atheism --- things which I have contemplated many times myself.

[xSilverPhinx]

Blissful ignorance is bliss, or so they say...

I don't know about that, most of the angry people I know are angry because they're ignorant.

In my experience, it's usually more because they are ignorant, but refuse to admit it - even to themselves.

I find this to be the case most of the times as well.

[Tank]

YODACHODA said :'Yeah, I would love to be a theist.  It definitely leads to a happier life I think'

Reply:    This is an interesting statement  ;   why do you see atheism as a less happier life ?

Because theists have an excuse for everything. If there is a God nobody is responsible for anything we're just playthings and puppets of something we can't possibly understand.

How does 'Theists having an answer for everything'  result in an atheist having a less happier life (as the Poster YodaChoda declared) ?   What is the tie to that ?!

It's the difference between a child (theist) and adult (atheist). All things being equal children are generally happier than adults because they don't have to solve problems nor take responsiblity. Theists take the childish easy way out.

If there is a God that  gave us our self evident moral conscience to live morally by , then it  WOULD make us responsible for our actions ;  if there IS a personal intelligent Creator (God)  who fashioned the entire Universe including all the required many laws of physics so Earth could sustain human life...then we would hardly be inconsequential playthings and puppets  .  And further,  given this extreme example of planning and excersised care...it WOULD be possible to understand.   I guess theres alot riding on atheism --- things which I have contemplated many times myself.

If people keep basing their thinking on mythology humanity is fucked, pure and simple.

[Ali]

Whereas if the Christian Faith for example  turns out to be true, then,  it would offer something very substantial in this regard , namely,  that this world would not be all there is and that the struggles, suffering, and physical death we experience  wouldnt have the final say .

I believe this is called a Siren Song.  I can't believe in something simply because wouldn't it be nice.  I'm not made that way.

[Genericguy]

I get this.  I don't necessarily think that theism would lead to a happier life, but I understand how it helps with some of the harder parts of life.  Like for me, I have to admit that I'm kind of....scared of death, I guess.  Like, I think about not existing any more, and I know that it won't matter to me then, but I really want to keep existing.

I always think of this quote by mark twain.... "I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it."

[Amicale]

YODACHODA said :'Yeah, I would love to be a theist.  It definitely leads to a happier life I think'

Reply:    This is an interesting statement  ;   why do you see atheism as a less happier life ?

I get this.  I don't necessarily think that theism would lead to a happier life, but I understand how it helps with some of the harder parts of life.  Like for me, I have to admit that I'm kind of....scared of death, I guess.  Like, I think about not existing any more, and I know that it won't matter to me then, but I really want to keep existing.  I want to know what the world is like in a thousand years, or a million, and it makes me sad that no part of my consciousness will be around to witness it.  I think about the people I love dying, my parents, my brother, my husband, my son, and it's a punch in the stomach.  How lovely would it be to believe that even once they die, we'll all be together again someday.  Accepting their mortality and my own is the hardest part of atheism to me.  I also understand how hard it is to realize that you are powerless against an indifferent world.  When catastrophes happen, often we can't do much to help with them.  Some larger catastrophes like natural disasters give you the opportunity to donate money and/or services to feel like you are doing something, but often smaller more personal tragedies (like a friend developing cancer) leave you feeling like there is little that you can do to help, other than be there to support them, bring them food, et cetera.  But with those personal tragedies, you want to do more!  You want to be able to heal them, make it better!  And most often, you can't.  So I can see why prayer is seductive, making you feel like just maybe, you can help them heal.  My bottom line is, I don't think atheism is for the faint of heart.  I think it takes a certain kind of courage to stare into the abyss, so to speak, and not turn to comforting fairy tales. 

What you said was pretty profound because I share in your assessment regarding death as well as suffering .  I guess in this sense, atheism doesnt nor cant offer any solace or true hope beyond the grave.  Whereas if the Christian Faith for example  turns out to be true, then,  it would offer something very substantial in this regard , namely,  that this world would not be all there is and that the struggles, suffering, and physical death we experience  wouldnt have the final say .   As for life after death,  from the study ive done on this topic,  there is very good evidence that our consciousness does continue after our physical body flatlines.  A really good unbiased book on this subject is one called :'To Hell and Back' written by a Surgeon named Dr. Maurice Rawlings  who as an atheist started recording and documenting actual accounts of people dying  then being resussitated in his presence .  I couldnt put the book down.

I guess I look at death itself from a slightly different perspective. An idealistic one, sure, and some atheists may even roll their eyes at it and I'm OK with that. But I'm a humanist, and a huge part of that for me is seeing death and dying like this: the way we live affects everyone around us, for good or for bad. I've made my share of mistakes and I've screwed up, sure. We all do. But mostly, ideally anyway, I'd like to think that if there's ONE solace or hope when it comes to non-belief, it's that this life IS all we've got. We've got the opportunity to make the most of it, do the best we can, help anyone we can along the way. When we're gone, we don't live on ourselves, but the memories people have of us do, and the actions we've done also live on, in a sense... for better or for worse.

So I guess I see it as a challenge every day, to just do better than I did yesterday. Love better, help better, make more of a difference, etc. I'm NOT scared of actually dying and not being here to see the world after I'm gone. It was fine before I got here, and assuming I don't royally screw it up   it'll be fine after I go. What I AM scared of is the possibility of not doing something meaningful and helpful with my life while I'm here. If I possibly can, I'd rather leave the world a slightly more interesting, maybe happier if not better place than it was when I got here.

I know it maybe sounds conceited or arrogant, thinking that one life can make enough of an impact in the world, and I truly don't mean to come off that way... but it's honestly not death that scares me. Living with bitterness and hate, without love and community, would scare me far more, but that's just me. I've seen people die. I've sat with them while it happened. When it was over, I was just grateful for the good memories I had of the person, and the difference they'd made in my life.

[Amicale]

I get this.  I don't necessarily think that theism would lead to a happier life, but I understand how it helps with some of the harder parts of life.  Like for me, I have to admit that I'm kind of....scared of death, I guess.  Like, I think about not existing any more, and I know that it won't matter to me then, but I really want to keep existing.

I always think of this quote by mark twain.... "I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it."

I didn't see this while I was writing my post, but it's good. Mark Twain.. or Samuel Clemens, whichever you prefer, was one very neat guy. And man, did he ever make HIS mark on the world.

[Guardian85]

Yeah, I would love to be a theist.  It definitely leads to a happier life I think.  If I had a choice, of course I'd chose there to be a God and to live after death. 

Yes, and a drunkard is happier then a sober man.

[Genericguy]

Struggling atheist, it seems many people here feel your not being honest. I think I have a solution. The following is a quote from you in another thread...

"Im somewhat of a struggling Atheist  in my pursuit of seeking truth and am no longer concretely committed to atheism or any other religious worldview for that matter..."

You only use Christianity as an alternative to atheism. If instead you used Islam, then that might help ease our suspicions.

[Traveler]

Struggling atheist, it seems many people here feel your not being honest. I think I have a solution. The following is a quote from you in another thread...

"Im somewhat of a struggling Atheist  in my pursuit of seeking truth and am no longer concretely committed to atheism or any other religious worldview for that matter..."

You only use Christianity as an alternative to atheism. If instead you used Islam, then that might help ease our suspicions.

LOL, his confusion about atheism being a religion is a clear giveaway!!!

I think he should try Buddhism. At least its interesting, and would be a nice change from all the christians around here.

[Ali]

Amicale and Genericguy - from my rational, thinking POV, I agree with everything that you have said and have thought much the same.  My emotional side is the one that still whines "But I wanna live forever!  Me, not just my legacy!  Waaaaaaah!"  

[Genericguy]

My emotional side is the one that still whines "But I wanna live forever!  Me, not just my legacy!  Waaaaaaah!"   

So funny! My wife and I have little fake crying fits when ever we don't want to do something.

[Amicale]

Amicale and Genericguy - from my rational, thinking POV, I agree with everything that you have said and have thought much the same.  My emotional side is the one that still whines "But I wanna live forever!  Me, not just my legacy!  Waaaaaaah!"  

LOL Ali

Ha, yeah, I understand, believe me! That reminds me, one day my daughter was tired and cranky and threw herself on the floor and went 'Waaaaaah! I don't WANNA take a nap!' so I threw myself on the floor and went 'Waaaaaah! I don't WANNA cook supper!' and she looked SO shocked and surprised, and then she said 'I take nap if you cook, mama'!