social hierarchy

shoruke · November 07, 2007, 04:39:38 AM

In english class, my teacher and classmates all say that in our society we have a hierarchy system in our society. It's based around the blanket assumption that the racism and sexism associated with our past have barely even shrunk. Maybe I'm just blind to society, or maybe it's because I don't hang out with enough of my classmates (I'm a bit of a loner... just a bit. All my friends are geeks like me), but I can never see major events based on racism or sexism. Sometimes someone will make a joke about something, but we all know it's a joke.

So, I have two complaints with our suppositions about 'hierarchy'.
1) If it exists, why the HELL can't I see it? Sure, there aren't any women on the national hockey team, but they have their own league, and that's about it anyway. Black people walk my school halls and my city streets, and I'm none the worse for it, so why the bashing?
2) Whyyyyyyy does none of the rest of my class accept that religionism exists??? Any christian can go to a public place, state his/her (see, I'm not sexist) views, and walk away without even pondering if anyone thinks they're deluded. I did my final report on Christianity last semester (by bashing it... see the "thou shalt not kill list", I presented that), and there were two people who weren't laughing to my face or making threats. One was my good friend... the other was my teacher. THIS is society's view of, quote unquote, "all white males having the advantages"? What about me?

P.S. I can only imagine being a black female atheist in like, the 19th century... open your mouth and get shot, yeesh...

Tom62 · November 07, 2007, 09:34:19 AM

I don't know the situation in Canada or the USA, but I think that racism and sexism still exists all over Europe. It is much easier to get a job (depending on the kind of job), get a loan or an insurance if you are a white male from a west- or north european country. In many jobs the female employees still have a lower salary than their male "counterparts". The situation has improved over the last decennia's, but not so much for people that have a non-european or islamic culture.

SteveS · November 07, 2007, 03:50:25 PM

I always figured in the software business that I'll hire anyone who can do the job well - I don't care what they're race or sex is.

I hear you shoruke - I don't personally encounter much evidence of these things either. I'm not saying they don't exist, but I can't believe they "have barely even shrunk". That doesn't seem true to me.

donkeyhoty · November 07, 2007, 09:36:58 PM

The "holy trinity" of historical study is race, class, and gender. That is to say these three things affect everyone and their interactions with each other and society at large. If it's not race or gender, maybe you should be looking at class.

And yes, it has gotten better for the race and gender side of things, but class, in my own opinion, is still the most important and divisive. If your teacher neglected to mention class(as in socio-economic) then they're an idiot.

As for religion, you can tie that into class with the "opiate of the masses" idea. If you keep the lower classes scared and stupid they'll be less likely to break out the guillotine.

pjkeeley · November 08, 2007, 03:58:21 AM

QuoteAnd yes, it has gotten better for the race and gender side of things, but class, in my own opinion, is still the most important and divisive. If your teacher neglected to mention class(as in socio-economic) then they're an idiot.

Agreed. 'Social heirarchy' these days has a lot more to do with who your parents were, which in turn will determine what kind of education you get, what area of employment is available to you, how much you earn, what house and car you have, and so on.

QuoteIn english class, my teacher and classmates all say that in our society we have a hierarchy system in our society. It's based around the blanket assumption that the racism and sexism associated with our past have barely even shrunk.

Your teacher sounds like a feminazi.

EbzDirtyHeathen · November 08, 2007, 03:59:15 AM

Quote from: "shoruke"In english class, my teacher and classmates all say that in our society we have a hierarchy system in our society. It's based around the blanket assumption that the racism and sexism associated with our past have barely even shrunk. Maybe I'm just blind to society, or maybe it's because I don't hang out with enough of my classmates (I'm a bit of a loner... just a bit. All my friends are geeks like me), but I can never see major events based on racism or sexism. Sometimes someone will make a joke about something, but we all know it's a joke.

So, I have two complaints with our suppositions about 'hierarchy'.
1) If it exists, why the HELL can't I see it? Sure, there aren't any women on the national hockey team, but they have their own league, and that's about it anyway. Black people walk my school halls and my city streets, and I'm none the worse for it, so why the bashing?
2) Whyyyyyyy does none of the rest of my class accept that religionism exists??? Any christian can go to a public place, state his/her (see, I'm not sexist) views, and walk away without even pondering if anyone thinks they're deluded. I did my final report on Christianity last semester (by bashing it... see the "thou shalt not kill list", I presented that), and there were two people who weren't laughing to my face or making threats. One was my good friend... the other was my teacher. THIS is society's view of, quote unquote, "all white males having the advantages"? What about me?

P.S. I can only imagine being a black female atheist in like, the 19th century... open your mouth and get shot, yeesh...

There is a social hierarchy...racism, sexism and classism are the factors of it for the most part.......... why can't you see it well maybe because you're not really in any minorities........you're a man and being a man in itself in a generally patriarchal society you have the upper hand there......you're white......you really should try hanging out with different people. You could be blind to society....I'm black......female......from the inner-city ........... strike one, two and THREE. If you're in a minority it usually is MORE THAN OBVIOUS to you. Sometimes people make jokes that involve sexism or race.....not always funny though.

I'm a black atheist female in the 21st century *waves*......still not that easy.........my chances of being shot for being outspoken about it have probably slimmed down a little though.

rlrose328 · November 08, 2007, 06:35:21 AM

Wow, Ebz... you've got me by one... I'm a white female atheist, so I'm only 2 for 3. I'm more a victim of sizism than anything else.

shoruke · November 08, 2007, 08:18:54 PM

Ebz, you especially present the point of view I was looking for when i posted this. I wanted to know if anyone really was experiencing difficultioes based on these issues.

It's kind of like what we're doing in my critical thinking class these days: looking at news, and deciding whether it's good. We established that it's much easier to find "truth" if you have two or more sides to a story... one each from opposite sides, and one that's neutral.

So Ebz, what kind of troubles do you have based just on who you are? I'd really like to know! Thanks!

McQ · November 08, 2007, 08:28:35 PM

Quote from: "EbzDirtyHeathen"I'm a black atheist female in the 21st century *waves*......still not that easy.........my chances of being shot for being outspoken about it have probably slimmed down a little though.

Well, Ebz, I think you just found the perfect signature to use for blogging!

And you make excellent points on the social hierarchies. Same with pjkeeley. Great points!

EbzDirtyHeathen · November 09, 2007, 03:03:53 AM

Quote from: "McQ"
Quote from: "EbzDirtyHeathen"I'm a black atheist female in the 21st century *waves*......still not that easy.........my chances of being shot for being outspoken about it have probably slimmed down a little though.

Well, Ebz, I think you just found the perfect signature to use for blogging!

And you make excellent points on the social hierarchies. Same with pjkeeley. Great points!

Ohhhhhh

if only I had any interest in working on a blog.

EbzDirtyHeathen · November 09, 2007, 03:10:43 AM

Quote from: "shoruke"Ebz, you especially present the point of view I was looking for when i posted this. I wanted to know if anyone really was experiencing difficultioes based on these issues.

It's kind of like what we're doing in my critical thinking class these days: looking at news, and deciding whether it's good. We established that it's much easier to find "truth" if you have two or more sides to a story... one each from opposite sides, and one that's neutral.

So Ebz, what kind of troubles do you have based just on who you are? I'd really like to know! Thanks!

I've been called a n-gg-r girl. Just ......... it's not easy to put down every instant someone has acted racist or sexist to me .... I'd have a lot of years of that to right down ............... I'll name a few things..... been shut out of playing football more times that I can remember because I'm a girl and they don't want to hurt me. Had people not want to socialize with me as much when they find out that I'm not just non-Christian but non-religious at all.....ATHEIST at that. Shut out on dating this guy because he's Salvadoran and I'm black......he liked me but his friends didn't only because I was black and he was a b-tch to peer pressure. blah blah if it's not one thing it's another.

shoruke · November 10, 2007, 04:21:04 AM

Wow, I can actually see all of that happening. Thanks Ebz! Seriously, it really helps me to know to what extent racism/etc. still lives

Justice · November 10, 2007, 01:22:20 PM

I agree that classism is a much greater problem than racism. If you have enough money, the rules do not apply to you, regardless of your race.

As for personal experience, I grew up in Harlem. The neighborhood was composed of Blacks and Hispanics. It was very rare that we saw a White person besides our teachers, who wore themselves out for little pay trying to help us better ourselves. Of course, those who don't make it out of the ghetto sometimes (but not usually) blamed racism, but in most cases the real problem was sex and drugs.

By the way, by racism I mean institutionalized discrimination. This needs to be distinguished from prejudice, which was rampant. There are so many divisions among the Hispanic community, it was ridiculous. Haitian versus Dominicans, Cubans versus Puerto Ricans, light-skinned versus dark-skinned, straight hair versus kinky hair, etc. I have always felt (and still think) that minorities do more to perpetuate division than White people do.

That said, there are certain areas of the country I would not care to live in. Racism is still prevalent in the South, particular in Texas and Missouri. But even there, it is diminishing.

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social hierarchy