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(Split Topic) What would it take for you (a creationist) to...

Started by Happy Christian, October 27, 2009, 04:20:58 PM

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McQ

Quote from: "Whitney"
Quote from: "SSY"You should read the thread started by "YoungBlackSmart", the chap who estimated he had an IQ of 200 or thereabouts,

When I saw Happy Christian post his IQ, the first thing I did was make sure it wasn't YoungBlackSmart's sock puppet (well, I looked for an IP match, any idiot can figure out how to use a proxie).

I thought that too.

Quite frankly I think there is an inverse correlation between the speed with which someone brings up his IQ in a conversation and the actual IQ. Certainly that seems to be the correlation between actual intelligence and boasted intelligence - rational thought and boasted rational thought.
Elvis didn't do no drugs!
--Penn Jillette

Renegnicat

Quote from: "Will"Renegnicat' the smartest of all, not getting involved in this train wreck.

Aww... Thank you.  :exphug:
[size=135]The best thing to do is reflect, understand, apreciate, and consider.[/size]

Ultima22689

When incredibly frustrated combined with someone being condescending I sometimes bring up my IQ, then of course I facepalm that I did such a thing and wonder if I convinced someone I was a douche. I've taken several IQ tests in the past couple of years and they would always range wildly, the lowest one was 138 while the highest was 164, now I don't know if I have an IQ of 138 or 164 but what I do know is that the tests does tend to leave one wondering the validity of these tests, is there some sort of standard that these tests have to adhere to?  I would imagine they don't and that would explain the wide range and I know people who seem more intelligent than I do and have taken IQ tests in the past and scored much lower than I. Then again I tend to give the impression that i'm a loon(which I am I guess) and the whole stoner appearance doesn't help either.

OldGit

Listen, Happy Christian:
There is a question, like 'how did it all begin?'
You can't answer it, so you decide it must have been done by a creator, for whose existence there is no other evidence.
You have now not solved the problem but made it greater, since we now have to explain the creator.
This simple principle was already well known to the ancient Greeks.  When we mention it to christians, their only way out is to claim that we can never understand god - he just IS.
To any ratonal person this is a pathetic cop-out.

(EDIT)  Oops!  This reply has ended up in the wrong part of the topic! Apologies.

Munchkin Goddess

Quote from: "Happy Christian"Atheism .....
The belief that in the beginning there was nothing and nothing happened to it. As a result nothing magically exploded for no reason, creating everything and then a bunch of everything magically arranged itself for no reason whatsoever into self replicating bits which totally by chance turned into dinosaurs.

If this is your sense of logic then I think I'd rather stick to mine.

Okay, you do not understand the big bang theory at all and I think you should take the time to really research it before you try and discuss it. Heck, there are even youtube videos that will accurately explain the big bang theory in an easy to understand manner.

Squid

Quote from: "Happy Christian"wont give you the full story its too long but my doubts began when I read the excellent book, "The Facts of Life - Shattering the Myths of Darwinism" by Richard Milton. A particularly good book as Richard Milton at the time was not a Christian or Theist of any type but described himself as agnostic.

Richard Milton?!  lol

No wonder you reject evolution if you're reading Milton's insane writings, he's has no business writing criticism about any scientific subject.  You should really take the time to read research in published journals instead of Milton's junk.

BTW, tossing around IQ scores and earned degrees does not an argument make my friend...the proof is in the pudding, so give us some pudding...

TheJackel

Quote from: "Happy Christian"Atheism .....
The belief that in the beginning there was nothing and nothing happened to it. As a result nothing magically exploded for no reason, creating everything and then a bunch of everything magically arranged itself for no reason whatsoever into self replicating bits which totally by chance turned into dinosaurs.

If this is your sense of logic then I think I'd rather stick to mine.

There was no beginning or actual nothing... Firstly you can't state nothing as a thing of existence without contradicting your own statement.. Thus, you don't seem to even understand what it is that you are trying to state... So I will prove you wrong on this in a very simple way...

Existence simply exists because non-existence can not be a person, place or thing of existence itself without negating it's own definition and converting itself into existence... Non-existence states that itself does not exist... Nothing can not be a thing or a something either.. Nothing also states that itself does not exist as a person, place, or thing...  These terms that you are using are only descriptive words to describe something that is missing from the big picture that you expect to be there or to describe an impossible....

Existence = everything and anything without a "nothing" in the literal sense of a person, place, or thing of existence.. Existence is also anywhere and any place of existence without a place of non-existence... Non-existence can not literally be a place of existence... Sorry... Existence is the Universal Set... All things must have a place of existence and be in existence... All things must be comprised of the substance of existence itself... No GOD or Mind can create the container to its self or place of it's own existence...

So there never was "Nothing" even if it were empty space.. I suggest you read up on Quantum Electromagnetic Physics...

And the other common mistake by creationists.. The Universe or the Big Bang are not the answers to existence either... They are mere subsets of existence and within existence.. The big bang happened in existence at a particular point in existence... The universe does not stretch the entire infinite span of existence either... Hence your universe is still contained in a void much larger than it.. It's also contained in at least 4 infinite dimensional planes... Hence there is no such thing as a -1 dimensional plane... That is simply impossible... Something can not be -1 dimensional.. It can only be 0 dimensional or the the base of existence... the 0 dimensional plane of existence is what you perceive as "Nothing" , "Void", or "empty space"... It's not literally nothing... It's simply a unquantifiable something better known as a base of existence to where all other dimensional planes expand from... It's a loop to where if you tried to go through the O dimensional plane you would end right back at the 1 dimensional plane of existence... Thus non-existence is impossible...

Quantum Electromagnetic physics pretty much describes the interaction of looping of energy between the 0dimensional plane and the 1 dimensional plane and up... It's like a bank of borrowed energy to where the energy must quickly be returned... Hence a force of flowing energy to where anti-particles and particles are born.... These particles collide and destroy each other creating a bi-product that made the substance from which our universe was created from...

TheJackel

And on the GOD theory.A GOD can not represent a Universal set of all sets....If you state GOD is existence and we are all inside GOD then we are all apart of GOD and GOD himself... You would thus be made from the substance of GOD... And then you fail to describe what part of GOD do you reside in... Hence you can not be inside of what is existence and not be made from the substance of that existence.. You are thus not an individual of a free agent because in that respect you are GOD... At best you become an appendage of said Deity...And this would still be false because if GOD is infinite and represents the Universal set it wouldn't actually have a defined shape or appendage..It would be an infinite mind and thus It would still be a false existence or a solipsist existence... And you fail to explain said gods own containment for it's own mind and how he has created that container and all the subsets of his own mind.... It would still require reverse creationism for the GOD to create the container to his mind and the container still defies the need for the mind to be existing itself... Hence even the mind of a GOD still can not be the answer to existence or the creator of existence...


Basically to believe a GOD is existence, you would also be forced into believing in Solipsism... Thus you are of GOD's own imagining...A false existence.. If you believe a God is IN existence then you have to self admit that a GOD needs a place of existence and a container to it's own existence to which it can neither create or destroy.. It would be reliant on it and in need of it... And thus not the answer to existence..

Kylyssa

I wasn't paying attention to this thread, otherwise I would have posted a link to THIS earlier.

onlinej

Gotta love debating creationists. As one once put it: That would look great on your CV; not so good on mine.
Oh honey, I'm baaaaack! http://onlinejesus.wordpress.com/

leonswan2000

If a creator is simpler than the big bang [for example] you would still have to explain the creator. If you can explain your God in less than two words for me to know everything about Him you win.
I lost more than a few tiles upon reentry

SSY

Quote from: "leonswan2000"If a creator is simpler than the big bang [for example] you would still have to explain the creator. If you can explain your God in less than two words for me to know everything about Him you win.


Violent, unpredictable.
Quote from: "Godschild"SSY: You are fairly smart and to think I thought you were a few fries short of a happy meal.
Quote from: "Godschild"explain to them how and why you decided to be athiest and take the consequences that come along with it
Quote from: "Aedus"Unlike atheists, I'm not an angry prick

TheJackel

Quote from: "leonswan2000"If a creator is simpler than the big bang [for example] you would still have to explain the creator. If you can explain your God in less than two words for me to know everything about Him you win.

Actually it would have to be less than 1 word.. It wouldn't even be capable of the first pixel of the letter G... And it wouldn't contain the entire sum knowledge of existence since it can't even formulate the letter G..

Basically, A religious believer would needs to prove that Intelligence before knowledge is possible... The ability to apply knowledge before the existence of knowledge just so one can create something, or even know of it's own existence... It's self admitting to the need of a base of inquiry that itself can not create... You can not create your own self identity, self awareness,place of existence. or base of knowledge.. It like trying to state that an Microsoft Windows 7 can write the code from which its written from before it's self exists.. And it's also stating that Windows 7 could magically create the hardrive (its place of containment) so it can have a place of existence...

People that believe in a GOD believe in reverse creationism.. It's pathetically laughable logic..