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The reaction to the election.

Started by karadan, November 19, 2008, 01:55:27 PM

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Kylyssa

Quote from: "karadan"
Quote from: "Sophus"I desperately wanted McCain to win but the outcome did not surprise me. Oh well...


You were happy to have Palin as the second in command? McCain, i believe would have been a very capable president but Palin? Seriously, some of those interviews where real questions were asked of her.... All i can say is what the f*ck.

Palin is the reason a few card carrying Republicans I know voted for Obama.

Chemistry08

Quote from: "jcm"who wants to take your guns away,
OOH! That's bad... Very bad... ... ...  :raised: Why IS that bad, exactly?

Honestly, in a perfect world taking away guns would be awesome. Sadly, we live in a far from perfect world.

"Cum catapulatae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt." -Julius Caesar

Translation: ""When catapults are outlawed, only outlaws will have catapults."

I'm sure that if Barack Obama were to pass legislation to remove all guns from the USA, every pistol packing gang banger would go to the nearest dumpster to dispose of there illegally possessed weapon. NOT!!

Criminals would love for all citizens to be be defenseless, who wants to be shot back at while committing a crime?!?!

I can see why the vast majority of atheists tend to be towards the left, politically. In regards to the separation of religion and government, I'm on the left. But some of the views of these far left democrats are so unrealistic that they rival the unrealistic belief in a deity!

Zarathustra

Quote from: "Kylyssa"Palin is the reason a few card carrying Republicans I know voted for Obama.
That fact makes me appreciate her a whole lot more.  :lol:
"Man does not draw his laws from nature, but impose them upon nature" - Kant
[size=85]English is not my native language, so please don't attack my grammar, attack my message instead[/size]

Zarathustra

Quote from: "Chemistry08"Criminals would love for all citizens to be be defenseless, who wants to be shot back at while committing a crime?!?!

I can see why the vast majority of atheists tend to be towards the left, politically. In regards to the separation of religion and government, I'm on the left. But some of the views of these far left democrats are so unrealistic that they rival the unrealistic belief in a deity!
What is so unrealistic about it? I live in a society where guns ARE outlawed... do I live in an unreal country?
The practical consequence of that politics in my society, goes against all that you write. So unrealistic, it isn't:
Our crime rate is much lower than yours, our murderrate pr. citizen is infinately lower than yours, we have never had "high-scool-killings" or any mass murderers, our crimesolving rate is much higher, and so on and so forth.
Another consequence is that I am never afraid to let my kid play in the streets, and that I have never held a gun nor heard it been shot. (Except in the movies.)
How does that compare to a belief in a deity?
I think your post sincerely lacks the "yes, we can!"-thought... And that is a pity, since I really like the fact that it is OK to be an idealist again.  :lol:
"Man does not draw his laws from nature, but impose them upon nature" - Kant
[size=85]English is not my native language, so please don't attack my grammar, attack my message instead[/size]

Chemistry08

There are more guns in this country than people (>300,000,000). How could you go about removing all from society. They tried it with alcohol in the prohibition era and that just lead bootlegging and illegal 'underground' bars. How could you go about doing this!? And why take guns from the hands of law abiding citizens because of a handful of criminals. Not to mention it is a constitutional right, the one constitutional right to defend all others.

Anybody who has never shot a gun should, its a lot of fun! Our media portrays guns as evil when in actuality people are.

rlrose328

IMHO, Americans have such an "I can do what I want and everyone else be damned" mentality.  Greed fuels our every motive (on a grand scale, anyway).  They'd NEVER give up their guns.

For me, I'd rather live in Denmark where I don't have to be afraid to leave my house after dark, no matter HOW safe I know my neighborhood is.  I love the freedom I have in America, but it has come with a horrible price that I'm not sure I like paying on a regular basis.

I think it's the sense of entitlement that is bred into Americans that causes so much of the problem.  We feel we deserve everything, and more and more, people use guns to ensure they get it, be it to threaten someone to get what they want or to kill to get what they want.  Why can't people just be happy with what they have and help out others who have nothing?
**Kerri**
The Rogue Atheist Scrapbooker
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oldschooldoc

Quote from: "rlrose328"I think it's the sense of entitlement that is bred into Americans that causes so much of the problem.  We feel we deserve everything, and more and more, people use guns to ensure they get it, be it to threaten someone to get what they want or to kill to get what they want.  Why can't people just be happy with what they have and help out others who have nothing?

 :hail:
I agree, totally. The sense of entitlement in this country is outrageous. I own a gun, but it's only a .22 caliber hunting (if you can call it that) rifle. The only thing I ever shoot with it is cans and bottles for target practice. I used to own a handgun, until I realized that just having it in my home could be cause for harm (you never know who might find it and want to try it out). I would give up my rifle in a heartbeat if my new President said we had to. There are other ways to protect yourself.

And yes, why can't we all just help out others who have nothing?
OldSchoolDoc

"I will choose a path that's clear, I will choose freewill" - Neil Peart
"Imagine there's no Heaven, it's easy if you try..." - John Lennon

Zarathustra

rlrose and oldschooldoc:
I understand why Americans love the concept of entitlement, that is part of what we admire about your country.  :lol:  

To Chemistry08:
I must confess that you have a point regarding the amount of weapons currently floating around in your country. It would be a tramendous task collecting them. But there is a quicker solution: Sooner or later people would run out of bullets if you simply stopped selling them. But again; you do have a point.  :confused:
"Man does not draw his laws from nature, but impose them upon nature" - Kant
[size=85]English is not my native language, so please don't attack my grammar, attack my message instead[/size]

nikkixsugar

Quote from: "karadan"
Quote from: "Sophus"I desperately wanted McCain to win but the outcome did not surprise me. Oh well...


You were happy to have Palin as the second in command? McCain, i believe would have been a very capable president but Palin? Seriously, some of those interviews where real questions were asked of her.... All i can say is what the f*ck.

I'm glad Obama won, I voted for him. I'm glad Palin ran, because she is just TOO FUN to make fun of.

"She can see Russia from her house!"
Hate to tell you, but.....

Sorry but you are not allowed to view spoiler contents.

Whitney

Where did so many people get the idea that Obama wants to take 'our' (I don't have one) guns away?  He specifically stated that he does not want to take the guns away, he just wants better gun control.  It's already illegal for citizens to own some types of weapons (you can't have an atom bomb) because they are simply unnecessary for self defense reasons.  Similarly, you don't need a bazooka to defend your property from a robber.  It also doesn't hurt anyone to have to go through a waiting period so their background can be properly checked.

Chemistry08

Quote
Quote from: "Chemistry08"And why take guns from the hands of law abiding citizens because of a handful of criminals. Not to mention it is a constitutional right, the one constitutional right to defend all others.

Anybody who has never shot a gun should, its a lot of fun! Our media portrays guns as evil when in actuality people are.
What is so fun about it?  I remember reading very recently about an eight year old boy somewhere in the US, who shot himself in the head with a machinegun. While supervised by his dad and a shootinginstructor. He died.
... - I have an 8-year old. Doesn't sound like a fun father-son moment to me. :confused:
The story that you reference is unfortunate. I remember reading it as well. It was most definitely negligent in more ways than one but certainly no more negligent than say the misuse of a common kitchen knife that can easily and has killed many children to date.

The joys of shooting are the same as one would get from any hobby that people do for pure enjoyment. Testing and exercising human ability just, as with any other sport, stimulates the mind in my opinion. The joy that comes with practice and improvement. Its the same as throwing darts, playing tennis, golf, basketball, ect. All are games that involve accuracy, competition, and achievement. Also, collection of guns is fun!

This may seem a half-assed answer but it is very difficult to explain emotions and why things are fun. The real question, in my opinion is, why wouldn't it be fun?

Chemistry08

Quote from: "laetusatheos"Where did so many people get the idea that Obama wants to take 'our' (I don't have one) guns away?  He specifically stated that he does not want to take the guns away, he just wants better gun control.  It's already illegal for citizens to own some types of weapons (you can't have an atom bomb) because they are simply unnecessary for self defense reasons.  Similarly, you don't need a bazooka to defend your property from a robber.  It also doesn't hurt anyone to have to go through a waiting period so their background can be properly checked.

What a presidential candidate says during their campaign in know way portrays their true desires. All we can do is look at his history on the issues. He has voted in favor for every gun control law to date, including the D.C. gun-ban, as well as the bill banning concealed carry and handgun ownership in his home state of Illinois.

This right is important because it was given to us, by the founding fathers, to stand up to an overpowering government. The right to keep and bear arms is the protector of all others. Without it, without the government fearing the people in some sense, what other rights would they take from us!?

I leave you with a couple of quotes:

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." -Thomas Jefferson

The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.-Thomas Jefferson

Whitney

In a practical sense....do you think we could form a militia capable of overthrowing the government if it were necessary?

I think the purpose of the 2nd amendment is no longer one which could be realized.  That doesn't mean we should completely toss it out, but we also have to realize that the founding fathers could in no way foresee all the various weapons we have now nor the size of our military force.

curiosityandthecat

Quote from: "laetusatheos"In a practical sense....do you think we could form a militia capable of overthrowing the government if it were necessary?

I think the purpose of the 2nd amendment is no longer one which could be realized.  That doesn't mean we should completely toss it out, but we also have to realize that the founding fathers could in no way foresee all the various weapons we have now nor the size of our military force.

That's a good point. Kind of reminds me of the first 20 seconds of this:

[youtube:2py4wt74]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4nknAzQPHE[/youtube:2py4wt74]
-Curio

Sophus

Quote from: "karadan"
Quote from: "Sophus"I desperately wanted McCain to win but the outcome did not surprise me. Oh well...


You were happy to have Palin as the second in command? McCain, i believe would have been a very capable president but Palin? Seriously, some of those interviews where real questions were asked of her.... All i can say is what the f*ck.

I wasn't crazy about Palin but McCain was by far and away my preference over Obama. But even though I don't think Obama is going to do a single thing he promised (expect provide "temporary" relief) I will support him as our President and wish him the best. He seems a decent fellow (for a politician).
‎"Christian doesn't necessarily just mean good. It just means better." - John Oliver