Internet Pedophiles

[Occam]

I happened to be watching a news program on TV and they had a major segment about predators who seduce and molest children and teens by contacting them on the Internet.  One of the things they mentioned was the extreme prevalence of this - how they have found thousands and thousands of guys (almost all were males) actually connecting with children and teens.  

This got me to thinking.  This is not only against the law, the penalties are very high, and there's a strong moral prohibition against it.  I have to assume that a) the drive to connect sexually with children is so strong that anyone who has it will act on it in spite of any consequences; or b) that there are some who have this drive, but don't act on it either for fear of being caught, because they are unfamiliar with the techniques on the Internet, or because they don't want to injure the children.

I have absolutely no basis for this, but I would guess b) is the case.  Further, I'm going to guess that only those with no empathy, social conscience, no awareness of the possible consequences, or an overwhelming drive actually do this.  In addition, they probably don't identify all of these guys - likely only a small percent of them.

From the above, it appears reasonable that a significant percent of adult males are attracted to teens and children as sexual partners.  Although this is not what we are led to believe from the media, why do you think this may be the case?  And, what remedies can be instituted?

Occam

[afreethinker30]

I really don't think it's that common.When things are shown on the media alot of times they don't mention that they use cases all over the world.And when you go by that without mentioning how high the population is it will seem like a large amount.It was the same way when Jane Pauley was on the news talking about her bipolar.Then all the media talked about where those with bipolar,and didn't mention how low the rate is.On the Dateline shows there were alot of guys driving a pretty good distance to see the girl,and some were caught twice.As for female pedophiles I think there are more then shown,but how many teen boys are going to get a older woman in trouble for sex?

[Tom62]

I fully agree with afreethinker30. The problem with all this attention from the media and moral crusaders is that it any innocent interaction of men with children is now viewed from a sexual harassment point of view. Posting a photo of your six year's old child in a bathing suit on the Internet? Don't wonder that the police will raid your house looking for child pornography. Yes, I despise pedophiles and what they do I find morally wrong, but this whole trend of stigmatizing people by default unless proven innocent is equally immoral.

[Mister Joy]

Seconded. We're living in fear, really. My granddad was telling me that the other day he saw an unsupervised toddler in the supermarket but he couldn't go and ask where her parents were or check that she was ok because he was worried about it looking suspicious.

This got me to thinking. This is not only against the law, the penalties are very high, and there's a strong moral prohibition against it. I have to assume that a) the drive to connect sexually with children is so strong that anyone who has it will act on it in spite of any consequences; or b) that there are some who have this drive, but don't act on it either for fear of being caught, because they are unfamiliar with the techniques on the Internet, or because they don't want to injure the children.

I'd agree that the data source available to psychologists and so on is very narrow. It's restricted exclusively to people who have either acted on their perversions or 'outed themselves' & I'd guess most of that comprises of the former. For all we know, the majority of paedophiles could be self-controlled, morally sound & harmless. Just too afraid to risk any kind of exposure by seeking therapeutic help. Thinking about it carefully, I don't think I'd risk that either if I were in their shoes.

In the case of younger teenagers I can make a guess as to what the cause might be. Biologically, we're supposed to find people appealing immediately after they pass puberty, are we not? So I suppose not everyone manages to repress that for the sake of legality and social etiquette. As for finding actual children attractive though, I can't really think of anything. It's probably along a similar vein to whatever causes any paraphilia or fetish, I'd assume, and God only knows what that is. Most sexual disorders revolve around sadism and masochism & there's usually two sides to them, representing each. Giver & receiver, predator & prey, master & slave etc. So I'd guess that what they find appealing is the dominance (me big, you small, me world-weary, you naive). Also, I'd be surprised if there aren't paedophiles out there who fantasise about being children under abuse.

I'd also say that in every sadist there's a masochist somewhere and vice versa, given that they're pretty much introvert and extrovert applications of the exact same thing. And I'd know about this kind of thing, by the way. My fantasies consist of limb amputation, eye removal/general blindness, brain damage, emotional trauma - ie. objectification, blackmail, murdering "material's" relatives as a joke etc. - and cannibalism (the last three can be masochistic). Maybe a good way to treat these people would be to somehow acquaint them with their masochistic side, which could potentially involve a different fetish altogether. It wouldn't get rid of their original perversions but it would give them other options to choose from.

As I say though, I don't think they necessarily need treatment. If you combine paedophilia with psychopathy and narcissism, then yeah, they should be locked up... but otherwise I doubt there's much that can or needs to be done.

[Jolly Sapper]

... it appears reasonable that a significant percent of adult males are attracted to teens and children as sexual partners.  Although this is not what we are led to believe from the media, why do you think this may be the case?  And, what remedies can be instituted?

Occam

:tosses in my two cents:

On one hand there is the fantasy play that can be had with a smaller/weaker "victim" that a predator could not have with someone older and more apt to defend themselves or try to get away.  Dominance issues, incest fantasy (playing daddy to a child in his/her single digits), having total control over another human being but not having to try too hard to keep that control, seem like things that would be a part of a paedophile's psychology.

The other side of the coin is when there is a sexual urge/encounter between an "adult" and a "child" that may have more to do with getting signals crossed in the brain.  Sex seems to be just as much in the mind as it is the body.  So, an older man honestly becomes the friend of a 6 year old girl with no ulterior motives.  Somewhere along the way, the paternal emotions and friendship emotions get mixed up with sexual/lust emotions.  This situation could have several outcomes: the adult ends the relationship because its getting creepy/unseemly/against social mores or the adult engages in sexual relationship against social mores.  I don't think whether its consensual/non consensual matters for this post.

Its these that may be the most interesting because its not about predator/prey or fetish.  Its more about having a very real feeling that breaks some moral boundaries set up in a society.  These situations shock society only because it makes the distinction between what we are supposed to do vs. what we are capable of doing hard to maintain.  i.e.  Teacher has consensual sex with student, the fallout from the relationship goes public and teacher loses job but when the student becomes the "legal" age they get married or continue the relationship.  It makes it hard to reinforce the idea that "children" are invalids who are incapable of making their own decisions and that there are professional standards that all teachers abide by.  Kinda like in the Lord of the Flies, where its thrown in your face just how much of a sham "civilization" and "correct" behaviour can be, it is a very disturbing idea.

[DragonofHeaven]

I agree with Jolly snapper on a few points: First that we must understand that it is not so simple as just slating these people as evil or disgusting. In order to have good answers you must have good questions. Second civilization is for the most part a complete facade that keeps people feeling like they are protected. The relationship of people to civilization is much the same as the sheep to the sheep dog. The sheep feel safe so long as they are protected by the dog but how many sheep dogs out side of Warner Brothers do you see take out a wolf. The truth is that in most cases civilization is abandoned the second people are frightened. Where I disagree with a lot of people is that civilization is technically not being violated. After all where did we construct our republic from but those boy lovers the ancient Greeks. What these people are violating is a sense of moral right and wrong that has been conditioned into our republic by Christendom. Lets also not forget that girls used to get married at ten or thirteen in what we refer to as the middle ages. We would argue that we have progressed since these times. I do not dispute that claim, we have come far and in our civilization we have found out several things that our former civilizations did not know, like that the human brain dose not reach full maturity till it reaches the age of twenty.

I agree that it is becoming a big problem for us as a society when we cannot trust enough to even allow our children to go play without having a child monitor on them. Another interesting point is that this issue is not at all new. Is it possible that the media is playing a role in this escalation. Our grand mothers and grandfathers did not have these problems to this extent. Is it possible that the level of media coverage gives pedophiles a feeling the likes of "I am not alone and therefor this is not so sick after all". Perhaps we should come to an understand that some things are best unsaid and unreported. For example if one of these men is found and brought to justice (even if both of his legs are broken in the process) I don't *need* to know I do not have a *right* to know. If it keeps people from finding an identity in an act that violates another citizen, I will sleep better from knowing only this little bit "The FBI brought a man suspected of Pedophilia last night after a raid and are now holding him for questioning" Just that little bit would easily suffice no. Why do we protect our criminals better than our children? Is it possible that we have too many rules and they don't allow us to help the people from time to time?

Just some things to consider.

[afreethinker30]

Well media can't be blamed.Neither can nurture.There are alot of people who were molested when they were young,that go on to live perfectly normal lives.Men are built to pass on their genes,but that to can't be used as a cause.It comes to the question of morals and free will.I'm sure there are alot of men who have fantasies about young schoolgirl types but most don't act on it...why ??Because they know it's wrong.Having thoughts and acting on them are two totally different things.You get these feminist types that say porn causes men to rape .But they fail to mention that rape has always been in society.Rape and molestation didn't start 40 years ago but thousands of years ago.They also fail to mention that men alone aren't the only ones that view these images.Alot of the women I know have fantasies about forced sex and playing daddy/daughter.There is a big difference between thoughts/actions between two consenting adults,and taking advantage of a young child/preteen/teen.

[Jolly Sapper]

Just to get off topic:

Jolly snapper

Did you just refer to me as a happy vagina, or a happy fish?