A question for our American friends...

[Dave]

Ok, hoping to keep this light yet informative... But is is actually not an easy question to pose - nor, probably, to answer!

Over the years, apart from whole libraries worth of science-fiction, I have also read books by Mickey Spillane and Hank Jansen, in addition to the classics of "Catch 22" and "Catcher in the Rye", "Peynton Place" and a few others. I have also watched my quota of westerns, cop-and-robbers, "road movies" ("Easy Rider", "Thelma and Louise") and so forth. Then there is "Inherit the Wind" (looking at the filmic inage rather thsn real life), "To Kill a Mocking Bird" and oodles of other stuff, including the likes of, "Tugboat Annie",  purporting to show America-as-is. But does it?

I recognise that Anerica is a nation built of immigrant waves of political/racial/religious evictees, malcontents, chancers, profiteers, criminals, dreamers, sociopaths, anarchists, ex-slaves . . . . . . . . . . But, does this projected inage form a real part of Joe or Jane Public's everyday life? Is Anerica really as violent as the media and fiction seem to picture it (though we gave had our own moments if late)? Were the scenes at the Trump rallies everyday stuff or unusual, of the monent and the then mood or everyday?

Media and the Youtube posters are bound to select the more extreme stuff. My experience of The Thinking Atheist forum  (I always want to put "(?)" after "Thinking"!) seems to indicate that what a Eurooean might see as verbal violence is part of everyday life - but, like any forum, the actors are self-selecting.

OK, I like a bit of chaos and anarchy myself, that is the very fuel for the evolution of human thinking. But it can go very wrong and I do try to temper it with  the sensible and rational as well (even if success eludes me sometimes.)

Tonight, though, I can blame it on having imbibed twice my usual vino ration - a whole half bottle! However, the above question has been in my mind for many years - what is the "real" America really like? To each of us everday life is, mostly, normal - whether it contains a fair proportion of violence or mostly routine stuff. Understanding lies in the comparison with how others live.

[jumbojak]

It's not as violent as often portrayed. We have our share of nutjobs and the availability of firearms makes them a bit more dangerous perhaps but in general there are many people who will talk about violence for every one who might act. Different areas are more prone to talking about and advocating violence, I think.

My family from the hills of Tennessee is likely to react to any perceived slight by saying KILL KILL KILL! But, none are likely anymore to actually do anything besides gripe and plot. It's strange to watch and at times difficult to listen to. Just like anywhere else they are good people, for the most part, but tend to react in ways that most would consider inappropriate.

[Arturo]

I live in an old folks home and they are mostly depressed because they have too much time on their hands. I know a few too many people like that and it either makes me hate them, or they become recluse.

Then there is the competitve white guys who always tend to be racist. One said today that the short black girl is good at basketball because she's black. Another asked what race I am and started naming African countries like Nigeria.

The city nearby is poor but people aren't really killing each other like some civil war. They are some really driven people in the city. Unlike the people in my town who complain all the time.

[Firebird]

We're such a big country that the experience in one part varies greatly from the other. No one I know owns a gun aside from one cousin I haven't seen in years. We have plenty of idiots for sure, but personally I feel quite safe where I live and to speak my mind.  But that's partly because I live in a pretty progressive place. When my wife was searching for jobs and we thought we would have to move, we both agreed we would never move to certain places, which included the entire south. I feel more foreign there than I do in Europe in many ways.

[Firebird]

I will say the subtle racism and misogyny in this country has become much more obvious to me since Obama was elected, and I was surprised how bad it really was. I'm sure anyone who's not a white male like me would roll their eyes at this, so perhaps I was naive. But seriously, Black Lives Matters is a divisive statement? Even in my progressive town a banner which said this was vandalized multiple times.

[Arturo]

Oh no! They're trying to divide the country by saying they matter! Time to vote Trump

[solidsquid]

What you see on the news and online is the cherry picking of what will get other people to view that media.  Do bad things happen? Yes they do.  Is it a part of daily life? Not really.  Let me give you an example.

I live in a large city in Texas - San Antonio.  My everyday is mostly burdened by traffic, the heat, and not finding my favorite soda at the local grocery store.  My interactions with the general public often contain annoyance but it's often due to the other aforementioned issues.  On average most people are fairly pleasant.  When things do go wrong (I don't mean tragic, just generally crappy luck like a flat tire) you can often see people helping out complete strangers but that stuff isn't newsworthy.

I've been to a lot of places and lived in a lot of different areas but regular folks are the same pretty much everywhere you go.  I've sat and had a beer with a bunch of older guys in a bar in Perth, talked about tactical gear with a bookstore owner in Hobart, chatted about the struggles of finding good paying jobs with a Jordanian immigrant in Seattle, sat and watched European pride guys (not white supremacists they're not the same thing) sit and talk about similarities and differences in culture with a couple of Iraqi immigrants who were curious what the Euro dudes were about.  That's more usual stuff than the ridiculous shit you see on TV.

That's not to say anarchy doesn't rear it's head once in a while, it does.  Rallies can turn to brawls.  Gangs do have turf wars and catch innocent people in the crossfire.  But it's such a huge country - there's something like 325 million people here in an area of 3.97 million square miles.  There are places where you could live for decades and never encounter one act of violence.  Interestingly, I read a story recently based upon a crime study that found only a handful of very large urban centers in the U.S. contribute to most of the country's violent crime.  In those areas the crime that people find appalling is often driven by just a few things but mostly gangs, drugs, and poverty.

About the stuff you see on the news - much of that is isolated and doesn't last nearly as long as it is portrayed.  Quite often the "riots" are about 20 minutes of asshats breaking shit before the cops end their little anarchy session.  A lot of times there's a bunch of people standing around watching.  Not to say there aren't exceptions, there have been.  Probably one of the worst was the 1992 L.A. riots.  But incidents on that level are quite rare.

That's my perspective at any rate.

[Dave]

It is more or less as the rational bit of my brain insists is the real case. However Joe Public often seems fascinated by violence, I have to admit to tending to suffer this myself. The media are always going to produce what the public will buy - even though this can be a positive feed-back loop.

There is a soap called "East Enders" on British TV, not violent but illustrates something Solid Squid alluded to. The scene is in London''s East End, obviously. I lived in London's south east and I recognised the characters, their attitudes and the events of their lives. But if any group of people suffered the continuity of drama, trauma, disaster etc that these characters seem to they would be suitable cases for psychiatric treatment! The life of most people is fairly routine I think.

There is also the point that America is really a collection of states, a synonym for "countries", in a fairly loose federal structure - each having characteristics distinct from its neighbours whilst aggreeing on a degree of commonwealth and commonality. Even in lil' old Britain Yorkshire and Surrey contain people with quite different attitudes and values. Viking and Norman French or Anglo-Saxon extraction differences still exist centuries after they last battled one another.

It is not strange that we notice differences rather than similarities,  between people - differences might be a threat, but they can slso be a positive stimulation. The more insular, individually or nationally, even racially, we are the more those differences stand out as a threat.

Is international terrorism and immigrstion going to make us even more insular? There seems to be indications for this, Trump being a prime example.

[Claireliontamer]

I'm clearly not American, however I have got to know the place in the past 4 1/2 years through my relationship with JJ and have visited many times now.

The only time I've felt mildly threatened by violence is an incident in a Waffle House car park in which I was very lucky to have JJ with me or I'd have got myself in trouble.  On a day to day basis there, even surrounded by gun loving rednecks I have never felt an air of violence or threat. 

There are some obvious cultural differences between the UK and USA.  Guns are one, I was shocked by how many guns some people have and seeing them on sale in a store was an eye opener.  However, I'd say there are far more similarities between the two cultures and it isn't this big scary place often portrayed in our media.

[Pasta Chick]

If you can pass as an upstanding White Christian with 2.5 kids and a dog, you'll be fine.

[Ecurb Noselrub]

Like Solidsquid, I live in Texas.  Even though it's legal, I've never seen anyone open carry.  There are places like South Chicago and Oakland and some wards of New Orleans where a white person shouldn't go, and there are places in Mississippi and Florida and maybe even deep East Texas where a black person would be well-advised to avoid, but for the most part, everyone feels safe.  It's not that bad.  I'm going out tonight without the slightest worry about being subjected to violence.

[Arturo]

I have the opposite affect. I can't walk down the street in the summer without someone trying to fight me. Usually happens about once a year and I don't walk down the street often. I'm not visibly Mexican or anything, I think it's just dumb kids trying to prove their man hood.

[Ali]

I can't speak to how the realities of the US compare to the realities of other parts of the world (I only read about/watch other parts of the world which gets me into the same situation as you, or visit as a tourist which likely isn't a really representative experience of living in a place.) But what I can say about my experience of living 36 years in the US is that I have mostly felt safe, even living in a relatively large city (Denver, CO.) On the other hand, my experience is that violence can strike without any apparent warning. I graduated high school in Littleton CO in 1998. In 1999, the Columbine murders happened. Not at my school, and I didn't know anyone who died that day, but I knew several people who were there that day. My mom's best friend's daughter spent that day hiding under the bleachers in the gym. People I worked with at my high school job were there. The guy that I took to my senior prom was there. Years later, the Aurora movie theater shooting happened. My ex-boyfriend was there, with his little sister who I had known since she was in sixth grade (but admittedly hadn't spoken to in years, since her brother and I broke up.) She was shot but recovered. Her boyfriend died, shot while laying on top of her, as was her brother, my ex. My ex got "lucky" in that he wasn't struck, but he's a raging alcoholic now. A little while after that, I got a text that my oldest son's elementary school was on lock down because there was a shooting at the high school up the street. I left work to go to my son's school, joining a human wall of parents waiting to see if the violence would spill over to our school. We were ready to protect our kids with our bodies and bare hands if need be, if the shooter showed up. Luckily, he did not. So yes, America can be violent. Not always, but the specter of gun violence does exist and we brush against it from time to time.