Using Logic Or Something

[Arturo]

You cannot measure or observe what is not there. You cannot measure or observe God. So God does not exist. Those that try to measure or observe God disagree among themselves with the validity of their claims on which God has acted. So they cannot measure or observe God because God does not exist.

Does this sound about right to any of you?

1. You Cannot measure or observe what is not there.

     That is true to an extent but to take it as a true premise we must assume that we have the ability to measure or observe everything that is there. It    took a long time to develop the tools to measure or observe germs.

I agree with you there but this is god we are talking about. He is supposed to be everywhere.

2. You cannot measure or observe God.

    I can take that premise as true.

3.   So Go does not exist.

    You can't logically prove this claim until we are certain that we have developed the tools to be able to measure or observe the existence of said God



Even if premise 1 and 2 are correct, 3 still depends on which God. I will say that it would be folly for scientists to try and create tools to observe or measure God. So for the moment it is logical to assume that God/s do not exist but I don't think it's possible to logically prove something doesn't exist. Even something with the reputation of a god.

[Recusant]

I agree with Mr. B that the syllogism fails. There is an implied premise that needs to be explicitly stated. Once stated, it shows the failure. The argument as stated below is valid, but not sound.

P1. You cannot measure or observe what is not there.

P2. That which can be neither measured nor observed by any known means does not exist.

P3. You cannot measure or observe God.

C1. God does not exist.

Since the implied P2 cannot be shown to be true, the argument is unsound.

(I think this discussion properly belongs to the Philosophy board. Now please, everyone, lock your wigs, let the air out of your shoes and prepare yourselves for a period of simulated exhilaration--we're off!)

[Arturo]

I agree with Mr. B that the syllogism fails. There is an implied premise that needs to be explicitly stated. Once stated, it shows the failure. The argument as stated below is valid, but not sound.

P1. You cannot measure or observe what is not there.

P2. That which can be neither measured nor observed by any known means does not exist.

P3. You cannot measure or observe God.

C1. God does not exist.

Since the implied P2 cannot be shown to be true, the argument is unsound.

(I think this discussion properly belongs to the Philosophy board. Now please, everyone, lock your wigs, let the air out of your shoes and prepare yourselves for a period of simulated exhilaration--we're off!)

While I did not intend for the discussion to go this way, I'm impressed by everyone's logic.

[Dragonia]

While you may have a point Arturo, Christians "see" God everywhere. The evidence that He has left all over our world, on our lives, in our hearts. And you can not convince them with logic that there's another explanation. To them, it's denying reality. People's minds are so moldable.

[Dave]

While you may have a point Arturo, Christians "see" God everywhere. The evidence that He has left all over our world, on our lives, in our hearts. And you can not convince them with logic that there's another explanation. To them, it's denying reality. People's minds are so moldable.

Moldable but then baked into shape?

Sone evidently remain plastic - yourself being an example!

[Arturo]

While you may have a point Arturo, Christians "see" God everywhere. The evidence that He has left all over our world, on our lives, in our hearts. And you can not convince them with logic that there's another explanation. To them, it's denying reality. People's minds are so moldable.

Yes I'm not really sure what to think of those people other than the idea that they are lying, delusional, and/or crazy. I haven't met anyone like that besides my step mother who would be cruel to me and tell me that my reactions were because of either god or the devil. She doesn't say that now but it's more of the "I don't know why he acts that way" kind of thing.

[Dragonia]

Moldable but then baked into shape?

Sone evidently remain plastic - yourself being an example!

Yes, yes, I have a very soft plastic mind. 

Yes I'm not really sure what to think of those people other than the idea that they are lying, delusional, and/or crazy. I haven't met anyone like that besides my step mother who would be cruel to me and tell me that my reactions were because of either god or the devil. She doesn't say that now but it's more of the "I don't know why he acts that way" kind of thing.

I think "delusional" is the best answer, out of your 3 choices. But really it's none of those. It's wishful(hopeful) thinking, it's conditioning, it's brainwashing... it's Faith. The Bible makes it clear that we are to acknowledge God in everything and that all good things come from Him. So faithful people "see" God, or Satan, in every situation, every event, every reaction, everything. Because they are trained to look for it and really to discern (judge) every situation. It can be so life- encompassing.