Author Topic: Decades-old mass grave of children of unwed mothers confirmed in Ireland.  (Read 155 times)

Father Bruno

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Between 1925 and the 1960s, in a tiny town called Tuam in western Ireland’s County Galway, thousands of “fallen women” and their “illegitimate” children passed through the Mother and Baby Home operated by the Congregation of the Sisters of Bon Secours...But some of the children did not leave. And what became of them remained a mystery into which few cared to inquire.

But after painstaking research, a local historian named Catherine Corless became convinced in 2014 that the infants and small children — perhaps 700 to 800 of them — died in the home and were buried without markers in mass graves beneath the property, perhaps in an underground structure such as a septic tank.

The story, which attracted worldwide publicity, was met with skepticism and even suggestions that it was a hoax. It wasn’t.



As someone who was raised a catholic, and had to spend 12 years in a catholic school, I often have suspect that some of the priests and nuns who gravitated toward "piety" did so for the disguise and concealment such a position offered them. Not sure where I read it but if evil does exist in the world, it's primary motive is disguise and what better place than in the church. I mean is there not a better way to conceal evil or wrongdoing not only from others, but to oneself than some position of respect within an organization such as the church, whether catholic or any other type of christian sect or even another religion for that matter?

How the hell can anyone remain a catholic after stories like this one have been revealed or after all the horror's of sexual molestation and rape of children by priests have become known and documented, especially the systematic coverup by the church itself?

It sickens me because when I broach this subject with catholics, the downplay the entire thing, by reducing the actual numbers of those who not only committed the crimes, the rapist priests, or in this case the murderous nuns by saying it was only a handful, or it was a different time, or it was partially the victims fault.

This is such a sad story, but it is so indicative of the current state of religious affairs in the world today, these past horrors and abuses will not be remembered less they're forgotten or repeated, they'll merely be cast aside as necessary measures to be repeated if necessary by those who reject true compassion and reason.

“Our Father who art in nature, who has given the gift of survival to the coyote, the common brown rat, the English sparrow, the house fly and the moth, must have a great and overwhelming love for no-goods and blots-on-the-town and bums, and Mack and the boys. Virtues and graces and laziness and zest. Our Father who art in nature.”
― John Steinbeck

Gloucester

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I heard this on the radio and though saddened I was, I am sorry to say, not much surprised.

The Catholic church has thankfully lost most of the authority it once had, its respect was as much due to fear as anything else. I very much hope this is the final nail in its coffin in Ireland but very much think it will talk and promise its slimy way out of trouble yet again.

If another priest gets caught I think that every church member or official who knew, without reporting it, should be tried as accomplices, from lay people to bishops.

It is an outdated, degenerate and often criminal organisation and should be treated as such.
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Recusant

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I just had a personal experience of, I suppose I'd call it confirmation bias. I remember this horrible story from its first appearance, but my memory played tricks on me--as I recalled it, the existence of the dead children had already been confirmed. Though my loathing of the Catholic church has mellowed a bit, things like this help keep it from disappearing entirely.

"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
— H. L. Mencken


Icarus

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I will certainly not forgive them their trespasses.  I will cut them some slack because they believed in what they almost surely did, was the will of god. " Forgive them father for they know not what they do".

Father Bruno

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Sadly the sheep never realize the Shepherd's job is to lead them to slaughter.
“Our Father who art in nature, who has given the gift of survival to the coyote, the common brown rat, the English sparrow, the house fly and the moth, must have a great and overwhelming love for no-goods and blots-on-the-town and bums, and Mack and the boys. Virtues and graces and laziness and zest. Our Father who art in nature.”
― John Steinbeck

Gloucester

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The was a prog on BBC World Service about the increasing lack of entrants into seminaries and the RC priesthood in general in Ireland.

Child abuse and the Magdalen Laundries were mentioned in an "historical" context and it was claimed that the church today was a loving and supportive organisation. Yes, since the church was shown to be hating and abusive for so long they had to make some, at least cosmetic, changes!

And it is an international problem, the whole holy edifice is rotten. If they were to compensate every still living person in the world who suffered at their hands they would probably be paupered. Frankie would need his old banger, they would have to sell the Popemobile.
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Velma

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Not sure about how loving and supportive they have become. I guess is possible, at least superficially.

In the 60's and 70's, when  I was kid, the US was already importing a good number of priests from Ireland. It was about the only Western country that still had more men becoming priests than were needed by the local Catholic church. Now, it is common for Catholic priests to come from countries in Africa that have a history of Catholicism. Women becoming nuns at this point are going to spend most of their time caring for the aging woman who were part of the wave of candidates in the 50's and 60's. The Catholic church as a whole is aging rapidly.

The Catholic church in Ireland had an extreme amount of power at that time. From what I can tell, it seems to have been only slightly less than the power it wielded in the Middle Ages - not quite a theocracy, but close enough. That mix of political and religious power is toxic, not matter what the era. Add to that a fear of women and of sex in general, the atmosphere become poisonous for anyone who doesn't fit into the mold of what is considered "godly" or "pure" or can't be controlled by malignant amounts of guilt.
Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of the astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy.~Carl Sagan

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...Add to that a fear of women and of sex in general, the atmosphere become poisonous for anyone who doesn't fit into the mold of what is considered "godly" or "pure" or can't be controlled by malignant amounts of guilt.

Yes I would consider that an issue for both men and women. Not only would women have to fit an unrealistic expectation, men also become weak by being afraid of women.
But, uh...well there it is.


Father Bruno

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I was reading an article last night about the rapid decline of Catholicism in Ireland, especially since the sex abuse scandal broke there back in the 90's. I'm sure this story about mass graves will drive the decline even deeper.

It said that back in the late 40's the Pope at the time called Ireland the most Catholic Country in the world, with something like 90 percent of the Irish people attending church each week, but now it's almost below 30 percent, which is even lower than the US.

And then last year the Irish voted in favor of same sex marriage, which was in direct opposition to the church. In the article they were interviewing some of the folks who had stopped attending mass and who had left the church and allowing a priest to respond to their comments, and the one thing from it that stuck with me is how when one young man said how much he "opposed the church's current missionary role in Africa, especially how the church there is telling people not to use birth control even though HIV infections continue to rise". The priest when hearing this comment said, "See this is the problem, there was a time when a person wouldn't dare speak to a priest that way, nowadays we expect to be talked to this way, we, meaning the church have lost all of our authority".

I agree, and happily so that the church, and other christian sects are loosing their authority, but that's "not" the problem, what this priest and other's don't realize is they should have never had authority to begin with.


“Our Father who art in nature, who has given the gift of survival to the coyote, the common brown rat, the English sparrow, the house fly and the moth, must have a great and overwhelming love for no-goods and blots-on-the-town and bums, and Mack and the boys. Virtues and graces and laziness and zest. Our Father who art in nature.”
― John Steinbeck

Gloucester

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Quote
“Our Father who art in nature, who has given the gift of survival to the coyote, the common brown rat, the English sparrow, the house fly and the moth, must have a great and overwhelming love for no-goods and blots-on-the-town and bums, and Mack and the boys. Virtues and graces and laziness and zest. Our Father who art in nature.”
― John Steinbeck

Why the English sparrow? Chirpy little chap, does no harm (not in England anyway). Well, apart from the little sod who fights his reflection in my window at first light - tap, tap, tap!

Bugger off Steinbeck, leave our sparrows alone!
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Father Bruno

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Quote
“Our Father who art in nature, who has given the gift of survival to the coyote, the common brown rat, the English sparrow, the house fly and the moth, must have a great and overwhelming love for no-goods and blots-on-the-town and bums, and Mack and the boys. Virtues and graces and laziness and zest. Our Father who art in nature.”
― John Steinbeck

Why the English sparrow? Chirpy little chap, does no harm (not in England anyway). Well, apart from the little sod who fights his reflection in my window at first light - tap, tap, tap!

Bugger off Steinbeck, leave our sparrows alone!

Steinbeck is my favorite author, and this particular passage is from "Cannery Row". I was going to say it's one of my favorites passages from the book, but actually the entire book is one long favorite passage of mine, so as the resident priest here at HAF I shall forgive you your trespasses my dear Glowchester, that is for telling His Holy of Holies "John Steinbeck" to bugger off.
 
I do so because I realize you are old, and therefore probably perpetually grumpy, and know not what you do, and also because Steinbeck himself would probably appreciate the comment ;D

I've always taken this passage to be Steinbeck's version of the "Lords Prayer" which begins "Our father who art in heaven"....I like John's version because instead of placing god in heaven he has him here on earth, represented by nature, which when I first read long ago I took to mean god is in everything, and nothing all at once.
I know this passage, as well as the book is a thorn is the side of christians because of this and other passages, such as this one:

"People, sleeping, heard [the old Chinaman's] flapping shoe go by and they awakened for a moment. It had been happening for years but no one ever got used to him. Some people thought he was God and very old people thought he was Death and children thought he was a very funny old Chinaman".

The old chinamen referenced here is really the only constant in the entire book, so he represents the only constants for us which are life and death ( So there is no god, only an old Chinaman with a flapping shoe along with life and death)

Anyway Steinbeck meant your precious English Sparrow no harm, in fact he is comparing it to Mack and the boys, otherwise known as "saints and angels and martyrs and holy men"...
“Our Father who art in nature, who has given the gift of survival to the coyote, the common brown rat, the English sparrow, the house fly and the moth, must have a great and overwhelming love for no-goods and blots-on-the-town and bums, and Mack and the boys. Virtues and graces and laziness and zest. Our Father who art in nature.”
― John Steinbeck

Gloucester

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Grumpy? Me?

Listen here youngster, I'll have you know... Er, what was it now? Had it a moment ago.

Sod, it, just watch it, see!

 :geezer!:
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^^
:lol:
You guys are funny.


“I've had several "spiritual" or numinous experiences over the years, but never felt that they were the product of anything but the workings of my own mind in reaction to the universe.” ~Recusant

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