Author Topic: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?  (Read 4185 times)

Dredge

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Re: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?
« Reply #120 on: March 23, 2017, 06:45:54 AM »
Huh, every time i try to reply here, something goes wrong. I was pretty sure I replied to dredge
One of your posts ended up in the "Creationism/Intelligent Design" section, under "According to Dredge: Abiogenesis is Magic".
Follow the evidence wherever it leads.

Dave

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Re: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?
« Reply #121 on: March 23, 2017, 10:07:14 AM »
Well, that would demonstrate just how much out of touch with reality, with life as it is lived, the average philosoohy teacher is!
Your opinion of what is reality is is no doubt very different to my opinon of what reality is.  What I have been discussing is reality from the point of view of your atheism.  So which of my comments means I'm out of touch with atheist reality"?
True, every person has a unique view of reality that is determined by their genes, education, experience of life and that special, unique, factor that determines the exact result of all those influences. Though, since we have little real control over the final result, chsnces sre thst unique factor is genetically determined - two people might react in opposite ways to shared identical influences,  same sex siblings may be opposite poles in their personspality types.

Reiterating what I have said elsewhere, it is not a person's religiosity that determines whether or not they are a good person but their actions in life. The good person is good, the evil is evil, regardless of their belief/disbelief in the supernatural. The good person values others and thst sebse of value guves them purpose, a reason to work (sometimes very hard) to be nurses or doctors, teachers, aid workers etc. Some people need religion as a motivating factor, others do it simply because they know it needs to be done. That, the helping of others, is all some need to feel that their life has a reason, a purpose. They can die in the knowledge their life was mot wasted, not in believing their "reward" is yet to come.

This, and my last post in the other thread, are my last attempts to get you to look at people as people, not points on the scale of religiosity determined by your  beliefs.

These are amongst the fundamental things you have so  much trouble understanding and accepting it seems.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2017, 06:44:40 PM by Gloucester »
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Arturo

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Re: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?
« Reply #122 on: March 23, 2017, 11:24:20 PM »
Huh, every time i try to reply here, something goes wrong. I was pretty sure I replied to dredge
One of your posts ended up in the "Creationism/Intelligent Design" section, under "According to Dredge: Abiogenesis is Magic".

Cool...seems like you've conveniently ignored that too. Like you maybe do with everything that you don't like.
But, uh...well there it is.
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Dredge

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Re: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?
« Reply #123 on: March 24, 2017, 07:16:53 AM »
Satan is always coming up with novel ways to exterminate humans, as it is in his interest.

Yeah, like that time that Satan destroyed almost all of humanity with a great flood.  Oh, wait .....
"The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them.  These were the mighty men of old, the men of renown ... The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great upon the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually ... Now the earth was corrupt in God's sight, and the earth was filled with violence.  And God saw the earth, and behold, it was corrupt, for all flesh had corrupted their way upon the earth." (Genesis 6:4-12).  

So Yahweh destroyed the hordes of the wicked with a flood.  Sounds fair enough to me.   Yahweh saved the few righteous ones, who re-populated the planet.  So what's the problem?

Satan, on the other hand, hates humanity and would like to kill everyone  - good and bad.  Naughty Satan.  Bad Satan.
Follow the evidence wherever it leads.

Dredge

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Re: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?
« Reply #124 on: March 24, 2017, 07:25:47 AM »
So what?  What makes you think humans need to exist?

Why are you questioning their need to exist? Do you think they all need to be wiped out?
I don't think humans need to be wiped out.  But quite a few environmentalist fanatics think a global cull would be very beneficial for the planet (Satan is always coming up with novel ways to exterminate humans, as it is in his interest).

According to your "science", no life needs to exist.

You already had an answer to your own question. Why even ask it? It's clear you're just trying to prove your own prejudice.

Whether or not life needs to exist doesn't matter. It already does and we want to survive. We do survive. I don't see anything wrong with that. I'm also not against uthenasia if someone is suffering a great deal. They have there own personal struggles that I'm not going to project my preferences on to. I will try to help them if I can but I can't always be there. So if someone slips through the cracks, at least let them have peace.

Quote
quite a few environmentalist fanatics think a global cull would be very beneficial for the planet
Statistics? Don't use an anecdote (if you even know what that is) because we already know none of us are the center of the universe.

Quote
(Satan is always coming up with novel ways to exterminate humans, as it is in his interest)

You mean how God wiped out who knows how many people in the Bible as we've already described? I mean once we brought that up, you started questioning why we think it's bad for babies to be slaughtered. And why humans need to exist. And then you blamed it on science but really it's all coming from you and your Bible lol

Look around on the 'net and you'll find plenty of greenies who claim that there are already too many polluters (humans) on the planet.   

"Statistics?"  What, you want me to spend a year finding all the aforementioned green nutters and count them?  Sorry, can't be bothered.
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You accuse Yahweh of being "immoral" for killing babies, but the very "science" that your base your atheism on contradicts this accusation: According to evolution, the life of a human being is not only meaningless (since it is the result of a series of meaningless accidents), it is worth no more than the life of a bug.  So since killing a bug is not immoral, neither is killing a human being.  And what is immoral about doing away with a creature whose life is meaningless?

 Now, since your own "science" is against you regarding this matter, I'm wondering how you are going to prove this charge of immorality against Yahweh.  I look forward to hearing your Plan B.
Follow the evidence wherever it leads.

Dredge

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Re: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?
« Reply #125 on: March 24, 2017, 07:34:01 AM »
What I need is an atheist to tell me how, according to "science" and evolution, the life of human being is more important than the life of a bug (any bug will do).
Follow the evidence wherever it leads.

Dredge

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Re: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?
« Reply #126 on: March 24, 2017, 07:42:38 AM »
It comes down to the same twaddle that's been peddled by casuistic god-botherers for millennia. The only "real" morality is that which some group of pious self-important mountebanks says comes from a supposedly supernatural external source that they believe to exist in a realm that's safely out of reach to anybody alive.
Is empty, unoriginal rhetoric the best you can muster against my argument?  Come on, surely an intelligent chap like you can think of something meatier than this!

-----------------------------

P.S.  What does "Has Received Bacon" mean?
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Recusant

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Re: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?
« Reply #127 on: March 24, 2017, 09:25:15 AM »
We don't usually let theists in on it, but since you claim to be "fascinated by atheism," I'm going to lift a corner of the veil: Bacon is the most holy sacrament of atheism. Don't tell anybody.

You didn't address the content of the supposedly "empty, unoriginal rhetoric." If it's so familiar to you, there must be an answer that you are also familiar with. Strange that you didn't use it.
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Magdalena

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Re: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?
« Reply #128 on: March 24, 2017, 06:17:58 PM »
P.S.  What does "Has Received Bacon" mean?

Do you agree with him/me/us?


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Re: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?
« Reply #129 on: March 24, 2017, 07:48:04 PM »
What I need is an atheist to tell me how, according to "science" and evolution, the life of human being is more important than the life of a bug (any bug will do).

Carl Sagan
Humans — who enslave, castrate, experiment on, and fillet other animals — have had an understandable penchant for pretending animals do not feel pain. A sharp distinction between humans and 'animals' is essential if we are to bend them to our will, make them work for us, wear them, eat them — without any disquieting tinges of guilt or regret. It is unseemly of us, who often behave so unfeelingly toward other animals, to contend that only humans can suffer. The behavior of other animals renders such pretensions specious. They are just too much like us.
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Dave

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Re: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?
« Reply #130 on: March 24, 2017, 08:30:10 PM »
Quote
Genesis 1:26
Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
Wish the stupid bugger had included blood parasites, fungi, yeasts, bacteria and viruses! Unless we do some serious SCIENTIFIC stuff to fight them off they can get "dominion" over us!
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Re: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?
« Reply #131 on: March 25, 2017, 03:51:03 PM »
Only someone utterly lacking in empathy could be having a hard time with this.
Empathy.  Why is it necessary to have empathy?  A shark lacks empathy but survives just fine.  If a shark doesn't need empathy, why should a human?
Because sharks are not social creatures.
Why be social?  ...
We evolved that way. We are social creatures. For complex social creatures like humans, as opposed to social insects, empathy is a necessary quality for survival. Sharks are not social creatures. They do not require an empathic response to their own kind.
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Arturo

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Re: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?
« Reply #132 on: March 26, 2017, 02:50:15 AM »

Look around on the 'net and you'll find plenty of greenies who claim that there are already too many polluters (humans) on the planet.   

"Statistics?"  What, you want me to spend a year finding all the aforementioned green nutters and count them?  Sorry, can't be bothered.
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You accuse Yahweh of being "immoral" for killing babies, but the very "science" that your base your atheism on contradicts this accusation: According to evolution, the life of a human being is not only meaningless (since it is the result of a series of meaningless accidents), it is worth no more than the life of a bug.  So since killing a bug is not immoral, neither is killing a human being.  And what is immoral about doing away with a creature whose life is meaningless?

 Now, since your own "science" is against you regarding this matter, I'm wondering how you are going to prove this charge of immorality against Yahweh.  I look forward to hearing your Plan B.

Clearly you don't know what an anecdote is or care of it's fallaciousness. But I'll explain it to you anyway: an anecdote is taking personal experience and using it as a basis to judge all reality. Being a theist, you should at least appreciate that humans are not the center of the universe, so if you see it, you should at least be skeptical of what ever it is you just saw. I asked you for statistics so we would have at least more than your personal opinion.

And like I've said in the beginning, we make our own meaning. If you think evolution is meaningless then it's nothing more than a figment of your imagination. Science does this as well and tests the meanings to see if they are true and worthy of belief by trying to falsify it. Then scientists record and analyze their results; which comes up with whole new meaningful ideas and inspiration. I however don't attach meaning to evolution at all and if I did, I'd say it's fascinating to the to see that life is mysteriously always improving. An example of evolution: we didn't always have cars, phones, grocery stores with easily accessible food. Over time these things came to existence and improved our lives. It didn't stop there and it we continue to evolve every day whether you like it or not.

I mean if you want to see who is worse, imaginary god or whatever ideals you think I have, you're admitting god is bad as well just by making the comparison. So the real question is: is god as bad as athiests or is he worse?

It's very sad that you have to downplay basic facts just to prop up your beliefs. What I've said here invalidates your argument. Please have a seat.
But, uh...well there it is.
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Dave

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Re: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?
« Reply #133 on: March 26, 2017, 08:42:40 AM »
Quote
An example of evolution: we didn't always have cars, phones, grocery stores with easily accessible food. Over time these things came to existence and improved our lives.

Now, hold it right there, Arturo! Access to food I wiil concede. Not to sure of the efficaciousbess of the other two...

It's the human brain that was able to design such things that evolved to be pedantic. But our Cro msgnon were probably as intelligent as us - we have the advsntage of a few 100k years if accumulated knowledge. But that also needed developing a reliable means of storing and passing on that knowledge, speech, graphics and writing. All the rest is just added frippery.

Trouble is we just had to invent, or imagine rather, the concept of the suoernatural in our early ignorance.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2017, 12:01:30 PM by Gloucester »
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Dave

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Re: I can't stand Trump or Christians. How do I get over this?
« Reply #134 on: March 26, 2017, 09:08:15 AM »
It has just occurred to me: the people that life is most meaningless to (apart from those unfortunate enough to be mentally ill) myst be the likes id our fellow member, Dredge.

Us atheists are, mostly, happily enjoying the one life that we have - raising kids, discovering new things, doing all kinds of good stuff because it needs doing or gives us pleasure.

The Drudges Dredges of this world have to survive this materialstic existence and have to suffer and/or do good things just to earn enough points to get to their imaginary "life after death". No altruism there then...

Poor sods.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2017, 09:30:08 AM by Gloucester »
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