Author Topic: Debunking religion: Moses never existed. I need your help!  (Read 811 times)

existentialcrisis

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Debunking religion: Moses never existed. I need your help!
« on: December 09, 2016, 08:32:46 PM »
I need your help. I put huge emphasis in Science and evidence. Hence I don't believe in God or religion for that reason (also because of many other reasons).

I argue with theists all the time about the evidence of evolution and how silly many biblical stories are. Most of the time theists evade or invent ideas to counter the evidence. It's called creating adhawk hypothises. For example.. theists will suddenly say we can't see god because he is invisible...then when pressed they say God resides outside the universe. Their cognitive bias is too deep to penetrate.

To put the last nail into the coffin of religion, we must be able to entirely debunk the Patriarch and Moses stories. I have started...help me finish!

This is what I found so far: Moses never really existed according to Wikipedia:

 "scholarly consensus sees Moses as a mostly legendary figure and not a historical person". This is a great start!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses

Can we find other research that shows religious figures in the past never existed at all?

Here is some great information as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_mythology

I still can't belive entire countreis, states and natinos in 2016 build themselves upon these myths.



There are no facts, only interpretations. - Friedrich Nietzche

The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason. - Benjamin Franklin.

Icarus

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Re: Debunking religion: Moses never existed. I need your help!
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2016, 03:41:39 AM »
If you are really interesting in doing the work, then I commend you to the book; Inventing Jesus by Paul Gabel.  The author is a historian of apparent substance. The book is some 700 pages long including 50 or more pages of assignations and references.  It is hard to come away from the book while still believing that Jesus ever actually existed in the form that the NT gives him. It is also hard to agree to the existence of some of the other biblical characters including Charlton Heston Moses. 

existentialcrisis

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Re: Debunking religion: Moses never existed. I need your help!
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2016, 04:49:53 AM »
Found the author! Just watched it, very interesting.

There are no facts, only interpretations. - Friedrich Nietzche

The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason. - Benjamin Franklin.

Icarus

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Re: Debunking religion: Moses never existed. I need your help!
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2016, 01:44:17 AM »
The video features Peter Cresswell who is pretty much in the same ball park as Paul Gabel and several others who imply that the Jesus person was an invention of convenience.

Pasta Chick

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Re: Debunking religion: Moses never existed. I need your help!
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2016, 02:07:22 AM »
I tend not to rely on Wikipedia much, as even when it is accurate it's known flaws make it easy for people to discredit. But if you scroll to the bottom of the page, there should be a list of all the sources referenced in the article. That's one of my favorite places to start researching.

existentialcrisis

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Re: Debunking religion: Moses never existed. I need your help!
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2016, 03:33:47 AM »
Some more mind opening stuff:

1. Historians agree Jews were never slaves in Egypt. Jews appeared 1000 years after ancient Egypt.

"Historical evidence contradicts this account. There were no Jews in Bronze Age Egypt because, until the rise of the kingdom of Judah in the Iron Age, there were no Jews at all."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Egypt

Articles even printed in Haaretz Israeli newspaper about it. Scholars in Isarel know it's a myth.
 http://www.haaretz.com/jewish/the-jewish-thinker/were-jews-ever-really-slaves-in-egypt-or-is-passover-a-myth-1.420844

2. The Exodus is pure fantasy

"The historicity of the exodus continues to attract popular attention, but the archeological evidence does not support the story told in the Book of Exodus."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Exodus

3. Moses never existed.

"Moses as a mostly legendary figure and not a historical person".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses

I now discuss these myths at dinner parties and expose ongoing lies.
There are no facts, only interpretations. - Friedrich Nietzche

The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason. - Benjamin Franklin.

Ali

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Re: Debunking religion: Moses never existed. I need your help!
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2016, 04:45:01 AM »
Ah Sweetpea. Has no one schooled you on atheism yet? Well, let's get on with it. It's not your job to prove a negative. How even would you? Prove to me that unicorns don't exist. (I'm being super annoying dismissive atheist now. Of course unicorns don't exist and HOW DARE YOU.) But for real. It's not your job to "prove" that god doesn't exist. How would you even going about proving a negative? That's not a thing. The best you can do is show that there is no evidence to show the existence of God, but GOOD LUCK. The existence for god, to believers, is that he speaks to them and tells them the things they think anyway. Wooo! So, against the fact that "God" speaks with their own voice....good luck. That's all. Good luck.

existentialcrisis

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Re: Debunking religion: Moses never existed. I need your help!
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2016, 05:54:20 AM »
Ah Sweetpea. Has no one schooled you on atheism yet? Well, let's get on with it. It's not your job to prove a negative. How even would you? Prove to me that unicorns don't exist. (I'm being super annoying dismissive atheist now. Of course unicorns don't exist and HOW DARE YOU.) But for real. It's not your job to "prove" that god doesn't exist. How would you even going about proving a negative? That's not a thing. The best you can do is show that there is no evidence to show the existence of God, but GOOD LUCK. The existence for god, to believers, is that he speaks to them and tells them the things they think anyway. Wooo! So, against the fact that "God" speaks with their own voice....good luck. That's all. Good luck.

Of course no one can prove or disprove the distance of God. The best we can do in this scientific age is debunk myth associated with divine claims with research and evidence.

A good way to begin is to analyse claims in holy texts. We see reality is starkly different.

1. Historically there no way Jews existed at the time of ancient Egyptians. That is a fact. Historically we see inaccurate claims.

2. Physics: cosmology shows a physical world totally different from claims in these holy texts, people living to 200 years, raining for 40 days to flood the entire earth, a man living in a whale, divine intervention breaks the laws of physics.

Ignorance is being lifted one mind at a time. That is all we can do based on evidence. Once provided with facts, it's up to us to decide what to do with it.

There are no facts, only interpretations. - Friedrich Nietzche

The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason. - Benjamin Franklin.

existentialcrisis

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Re: Debunking religion: Moses never existed. I need your help!
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2016, 06:28:12 AM »
More fiction:

"The Abraham story cannot be definitively related to any specific time, and it is widely agreed that the patriarchal age, along with the exodus and the period of the judges, is a late literary construct that does not relate to any period in actual history.[3] A common hypothesis among scholars is that it was composed in the early Persian period (late 6th century BCE) as a result of tensions between Jewish landowners who had stayed in Judah during the Babylonian captivity and traced their right to the land through their "father Abraham", and the returning exiles who based their counter-claim on Moses and the Exodus tradition".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham
There are no facts, only interpretations. - Friedrich Nietzche

The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason. - Benjamin Franklin.

Icarus

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Re: Debunking religion: Moses never existed. I need your help!
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2016, 11:57:41 PM »
EC your scholarship is commendable and  Ali's advice is golden.  She is an old pro ( not to infer that she is old).  If you are acquainted with committed religious  people, you must be aware that your logic, studious research, and realistic conclusions will move them nary a whit, jot, or tiddle.  In spite of Ali's council,  I  assure you that we are on your side and agree with the realities that your studies have revealed. Keep up the good work but don't get into a tizzy because the fundies will not listen to reason.

Oops,  I hear the dragon that lives in my garage. He is getting hungry and noisy so I have to rush down to the hospital maternity ward where I will  kidnap two or three infants for him to eat. It is odd to note that I am the only one who hears him when he is making those sounds. The neighbors have never complained of the noise.  ::)


existentialcrisis

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Re: Debunking religion: Moses never existed. I need your help!
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2016, 01:32:17 AM »
EC your scholarship is commendable and  Ali's advice is golden.  She is an old pro ( not to infer that she is old).  If you are acquainted with committed religious  people, you must be aware that your logic, studious research, and realistic conclusions will move them nary a whit, jot, or tiddle.  In spite of Ali's council,  I  assure you that we are on your side and agree with the realities that your studies have revealed. Keep up the good work but don't get into a tizzy because the fundies will not listen to reason.

Oops,  I hear the dragon that lives in my garage. He is getting hungry and noisy so I have to rush down to the hospital maternity ward where I will  kidnap two or three infants for him to eat. It is odd to note that I am the only one who hears him when he is making those sounds. The neighbors have never complained of the noise.  ::)

 ;D
There are no facts, only interpretations. - Friedrich Nietzche

The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason. - Benjamin Franklin.

Tank

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Re: Debunking religion: Moses never existed. I need your help!
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2016, 09:41:24 AM »
...and  Ali's advice is golden.  She is an old pro ( not to infer that she is old). ...
But she is a 'pro'. :watching:
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