Author Topic: Help me understand...  (Read 1644 times)

Gloucester

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Re: Help me understand...
« Reply #30 on: November 10, 2016, 10:18:59 AM »
There was a general rage against the established order of things.  Hillary represented that, and Trump was the anti-politician.  Therefore, even for all his flaws, people gave him a chance.  Not me, mind you, but over 47% of the populace.  Furthermore, in the past 8 years we have seen big banks being bailed out while the economic system has generally profited no one but the upper 1%.  In addition, for many there is the perception that the character of the nation is changing due to uncontrolled immigration.  Trade deals are sending jobs overseas and not benefitting Americans.  And finally, Hillary called 1/2 of Trump's supporters "deplorable", and her constant e-mail issues undermined trust in her.  I still voted for her because I saw her as better than Trump, but about the same number of people saw it the opposite way.  Hillary, I think, may still win the popular vote, but the Electoral College didn't end up in her favor.  So, there are a lot of folks who just wanted to drain the swamp of Washington, and she was part of the swamp. 

I voted for her, but I understand why many don't like her.

Yup, I can go with that as well!

I am anti-political, anti-sycophant, anti-cronyism  and pro professionalism, pragmatism, practicality; national interest over that of  personal, class or party . . .

I would vote like a shot for anyone who can break the centuries old corrupt system and provide something fairer.

We have to give him a chance but, from his life behaviour and performance so far, I cannot see Trump delivering much that will advantage the currently dis-advantaged in American society.

As has been said elsewhere, the only "checks and balances" Trump understands are posdibly those that relate to his bank accounts.
 And with Pence as his VP can you expect a much more intense intervention in your rights from the church?

I can understand why the Canadian immigration website has crashed from too much traffic.
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xSilverPhinx

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Re: Help me understand...
« Reply #31 on: November 10, 2016, 10:29:27 AM »
Thanks, Recusant. That second story is quite an eye-opener. Your new president is a demagogue then, who led the sheep to where he needed them.

Scary that this seems to be a phenomenon that's occurring in many parts of the western world, these kinds of economic and racial anxieties are not restricted to the US.   
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Gloucester

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Re: Help me understand...
« Reply #32 on: November 10, 2016, 11:42:22 AM »
Thanks, Recusant. That second story is quite an eye-opener. Your new president is a demagogue then, who led the sheep to where he needed them.

Scary that this seems to be a phenomenon that's occurring in many parts of the western world, these kinds of economic and racial anxieties are not restricted to the US.   

If your second sentence is a question: surely, about a year ago,  after Trump made the decusion to stand and - assuming he ever did - decided on his policies and campaign tone, his first soeech made ears prick and people listen. Those who liked his ideas told friends etc - his "flock" were largely self-selecting.  By British perceptions American campaign often seem "mobbish", loud and almost on the edge of violent action. Trump's audience's seemed, to me perception, closer to the violent edge than usual even for America with more swearing than at other rallies. But, swearing is also a "national" thing with Americans more liable to use far more gratuitous swearing in everyday speech than most people I have heard in Britain. Thus bears out in the posts from American members of The Thinking Atheist forum, though those from other countries tend to pick up the habit after a few weeks' membership.

But, is that personal/national perception that can lead one astray. It can be dangerous to compare foreign crowd behaviour with those of one's home.  Here I would only expect that sort of apparent crowd demeanour at a British Nationalist Party rally. But did the media give us a true picture?

As I have got older I do find that I have lost some of my "local" objectivity but seem to have retained some confidence in my intuitive analytical abilities in the wider picture.

I am somewhat concerned, both for America and the global situation since America still has the number one economy and the number one sized/equipped armed forces. For the moment.
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xSilverPhinx

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Re: Help me understand...
« Reply #33 on: November 10, 2016, 01:19:35 PM »
I am somewhat concerned, both for America and the global situation since America still has the number one economy and the number one sized/equipped armed forces. For the moment.

Yeah, me too.

"In the last two days, they had so little confidence in his self-control they said we are just going to take away your Twitter. Now, if somebody can't handle a Twitter account, they can't handle the nuclear codes."

"If somebody starts tweeting at three in the morning because SNL made fun of you, then you can't handle the nuclear codes."

Barack Obama is right. Trump just isn't mentally equipped to be POTUS.
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xSilverPhinx

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Re: Help me understand...
« Reply #34 on: November 10, 2016, 02:48:50 PM »
Here's something on the hyper-polarization of America (Scientific American).

Quote
This hyperpolarization did not begin with Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. It has been building for years.

Quote
The Democratic Party is best described as a collection of group interests and the Republican Party is unified by ideology. This finding may be either the cause of or the product of a phenomenon my research has shown in study after study. Over and over, Republican voters behave in more partisan ways than do their Democratic counterparts. They identify more strongly with their party. They show more bias in interpreting new information. They engage in more boosting of their party (and derogation of the other). And, they are more likely to select out of receiving messages from the other side.
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Gloucester

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Re: Help me understand...
« Reply #35 on: November 10, 2016, 03:28:10 PM »
I am somewhat concerned, both for America and the global situation since America still has the number one economy and the number one sized/equipped armed forces. For the moment.

Yeah, me too.

"In the last two days, they had so little confidence in his self-control they said we are just going to take away your Twitter. Now, if somebody can't handle a Twitter account, they can't handle the nuclear codes."

"If somebody starts tweeting at three in the morning because SNL made fun of you, then you can't handle the nuclear codes."

Barack Obama is right. Trump just isn't mentally equipped to be POTUS.

Hearing his words after the meeting with Obama I thought back onto Ttump's tone shift just before and after the election and then after today's meeting - more subdued is one description.

Could it be that Mr Trump had suddenly realised he might win, then had won and has now come to realise that he has a new, 24/7/365 x 4, job with hundreds of aspects of which he has little or no knowledge or experience - where he will be soooo dependent on advice from his cabinet?  People he has partly picked for their support in his campaign it seems. Good qualifications?

I would lay odds on his first thought, on passing the magic 270, was, "Oh, shit, what have I done?"
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Steeler

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Re: Help me understand...
« Reply #36 on: November 10, 2016, 03:45:41 PM »
I am somewhat concerned, both for America and the global situation since America still has the number one economy and the number one sized/equipped armed forces. For the moment.

Yeah, me too.

"In the last two days, they had so little confidence in his self-control they said we are just going to take away your Twitter. Now, if somebody can't handle a Twitter account, they can't handle the nuclear codes."

"If somebody starts tweeting at three in the morning because SNL made fun of you, then you can't handle the nuclear codes."

Barack Obama is right. Trump just isn't mentally equipped to be POTUS.

Hearing his words after the meeting with Obama I thought back onto Ttump's tone shift just before and after the election and then after today's meeting - more subdued is one description.

Could it be that Mr Trump had suddenly realised he might win, then had won and has now come to realise that he has a new, 24/7/365 x 4, job with hundreds of aspects of which he has little or no knowledge or experience - where he will be soooo dependent on advice from his cabinet?  People he has partly picked for their support in his campaign it seems. Good qualifications?

I would lay odds on his first thought, on passing the magic 270, was, "Oh, shit, what have I done?"

Totally agree. I don't think he thought he'd win in a million years. I think it was just a publicity stunt. Then shit got real.

xSilverPhinx

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Re: Help me understand...
« Reply #37 on: November 10, 2016, 04:33:23 PM »
:notsure: I don't know, if I had to guess, I'd say he's fully aware of what he's done. The impression I get is that he looks and talks like a buffoon, is a walking talking joke and a pathological narcissist but it's clear he knew what he was doing. He alienated a lot of people but apparently tapped into what a huge segment of the population wanted.

I question whether he's capable of being a president but he sure knows how to herd people. 

The polling companies, the media and a huge portion of the american population underestimated the man, now the nightmare's come true.
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Ecurb Noselrub

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Re: Help me understand...
« Reply #38 on: November 10, 2016, 04:53:36 PM »
:notsure: I don't know, if I had to guess, I'd say he's fully aware of what he's done. The impression I get is that he looks and talks like a buffoon, is a walking talking joke and a pathological narcissist but it's clear he knew what he was doing. He alienated a lot of people but apparently tapped into what a huge segment of the population wanted.

I question whether he's capable of being a president but he sure knows how to herd people. 

The polling companies, the media and a huge portion of the american population underestimated the man, now the nightmare's come true.

Yes, he was vastly underestimated.  He saw and heard something in the country that no other candidate saw, and took advantage of it.  I hope some of that talent can be channeled for good, but I have my doubts.

Fireball

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Re: Help me understand...
« Reply #39 on: November 10, 2016, 05:13:13 PM »
I think that if any other candidate saw it, they wouldn't have touched it with a ten foot pole. What rational person would? Chump seems to have tried to destroy his own campaign with all the insane behavior, but wasn't able to do it.

Steeler

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Re: Help me understand...
« Reply #40 on: November 10, 2016, 07:10:19 PM »
I think that if any other candidate saw it, they wouldn't have touched it with a ten foot pole. What rational person would? Chump seems to have tried to destroy his own campaign with all the insane behavior, but wasn't able to do it.

Yes. And early on, he just didn't seem to care if he won or not.
I think he could have done a much better job with his campaign as far as presenting himself as a calm, rational caring person. I didn't see a single tv ad for him that was paid for by him. The only ones I saw were paid for by the NRA, and those were 2a targeted. Maybe it was a regional thing. I do live in Indiana which was never in doubt with Pence on the ticket.

Steeler

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Re: Help me understand...
« Reply #41 on: November 10, 2016, 07:40:14 PM »
I think this was a really good read, I copied it from Mike Rowe on Facebook.

Off The Wall

Hey Mike. You’ve been very quiet. Everything OK? I just wanted you to know that I voted for you. I was also hoping you might explain what the hell happened on Tuesday, and say something to make me feel better about my fellow man. Thanks,
Carol Savoy

Hi Carol

Last Friday, my dog posted a video that featured a man licking a cat with the aid of a device that’s designed for the specific purpose of making it easier for people to lick their cats.I’ve been silent ever since, because frankly, I couldn’t think of a better way – metaphorical or otherwise - to express my feelings about this election cycle. The entire country it seems, has been preoccupied with finding a way to lick a cat without actually putting their tongue on it.
 
Too oblique? Too weird? Ok, how about this analysis:
 
Back in 2003, a very unusual TV pilot called Dirty Jobs, Forrest-Gumped its way onto The Discovery Channel and found an audience – a big one. For Discovery, this was a problem. You see, Dirty Jobs didn’t look like anything else on their channel. It wasn’t pretty or careful. It took place in sewers and septic tanks, and featured a subversive host in close contact with his 8-year old inner child who refused to do second takes. Everyone agreed that Dirty Jobs was totally “off-brand” and completely inappropriate for Discovery. Everyone but the viewers. The ratings were just too big to ignore, so the pilot got a green-light, and yours truly finally got a steady gig.

But here's the thing - Dirty Jobs didn’t resonate because the host was incredibly charming. It wasn’t a hit because it was gross, or irreverent, or funny, or silly, or smart, or terribly clever. Dirty Jobs succeeded because it was authentic. It spoke directly and candidly to a big chunk of the country that non-fiction networks had been completely ignoring. In a very simple way, Dirty Jobs said “Hey - we can see you,” to millions of regular people who had started to feel invisible. Ultimately, that’s why Dirty Jobs ran for eight seasons. And today, that’s also why Donald Trump is the President of the United States.

I know people are freaked out, Carol. I get it. I’m worried too. But not because of who we elected. We've survived 44 Presidents, and we'll survive this one too. I’m worried because millions of people now seem to believe that Trump supporters are racist, xenophobic, and uneducated misogynists. I'm worried because despising our candidates publicly is very different than despising the people who vote for them.

Last week, three old friends – people I’ve known for years - each requested to be “unfriended” by anyone who planned on voting for Trump. Honestly, that was disheartening. Who tosses away a friendship over an election? Are my friends turning into those mind-numbingly arrogant celebrities who threaten to move to another country if their candidate doesn’t win? Are my friends now convinced that people they’ve known for years who happen to disagree with them politically are not merely mistaken – but evil, and no longer worthy of their friendship?

For what it’s worth, Carol, I don’t think Donald Trump won by tapping into America’s “racist underbelly,” and I don’t think Hillary lost because she’s a woman. I think a majority of people who voted in this election did so in spite of their many misgivings about the character of both candidates. That’s why it’s very dangerous to argue that Clinton supporters condone lying under oath and obstructing justice. Just as it’s equally dangerous to suggest a Trump supporter condones gross generalizations about foreigners and women.

These two candidates were the choices we gave ourselves, and each came with a heaping helping of vulgarity and impropriety. Yeah, it was dirty job for sure, but the winner was NOT decided by a racist and craven nation – it was decided by millions of disgusted Americans desperate for real change. The people did not want a politician. The people wanted to be seen. Donald Trump convinced those people that he could see them. Hillary Clinton did not.

As for me, I’m flattered by your support, but grateful that your vote was not enough to push me over the top. However, when the dust settles, and The White House gets a new tenant, I’ll make the same offer to President Trump that I did to President Obama – to assist as best I can in any attempt to reinvigorate the skilled trades, and shine a light on millions of good jobs that no one seems excited about pursuing. http://bit.ly/2fG1SxI

Like those 3 million “shovel ready” jobs we heard so much about eight years ago, the kind of recovery that Donald Trump is promising will require a workforce that’s properly trained and sufficiently enthused about the opportunities at hand. At the moment, we do not have that work force in place. What we do have, are tens of millions of capable people who have simply stopped looking for work, and millions of available jobs that no one aspires to do. That's the skills gap, and it's gotta close. If mikeroweWORKS can help, we're standing by.

If not, I suppose we'll just have to find another way to lick the cat.

Mike

xSilverPhinx

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Re: Help me understand...
« Reply #42 on: November 10, 2016, 11:34:02 PM »
Thanks, Steeler.

I have a couple of questions, if you don't mind -- do you think that Trump is authentic? If yes, why?
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Steeler

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Re: Help me understand...
« Reply #43 on: November 11, 2016, 06:19:08 AM »
Thanks, Steeler.

I have a couple of questions, if you don't mind -- do you think that Trump is authentic? If yes, why?

To be honest, I struggle to put a finger on him. When he's not saying something off the wall, if like to think that the down to earth version is authentic.
But when he says the crazy shit he has a tendency to say, all I can do is shake my head and wonder Wtf.

We will find out soon enough I suppose.

Asmodean

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Re: Help me understand...
« Reply #44 on: November 11, 2016, 06:58:30 AM »
I see some British media are already plotting the US electoral college revolt...

...Not going to happen, methink.
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