Author Topic: Help me understand...  (Read 1905 times)

xSilverPhinx

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Help me understand...
« on: November 09, 2016, 05:15:59 PM »
...the Trump voter. Having overcome my initial shock, I'm fascinated by what just happened in the US. :news:

Any good and insightful articles online which elucidate sociological or psychological conditions that would cause so many people to vote for Trump?   

Quote
Most journalists ensconced in their New York or Washington offices refused to accept that someone as louche and crass as Trump could appeal to voters. Trump supporters, in many of their minds, were simply dumb or racist, overshadowing any notion that these voters might also have some valid concerns.

From: What I learned after 100,000 miles on the road talking to Trump supporters (The Guardian).

The article goes on to talk about a few of the concerns that affect white blue collar workers who have little education and prospects, living in predominantly rural areas. Trump plays on their disillusions and fears and gets a hell of a lot of votes. Ultimately, it makes sense that they would vote for someone like him. 

Could the fact that the alternative, Hillary, is a woman also contribute to her downfall among these people? I'd assume that the prevailing mentality in poorer areas is a more backward and conservative one.

...Trump. Supporters don't seem at all concerned that he has no experience governing a nation. Instead of gaining any by becoming mayor or whatever, the raging narcissist aimed straight for the White House.

I just find it funny that when teams choose their project managers in The Apprentice series, they generally opt for the one with higher expertise. It's common sense that this tactic increases their chances of winning the task. Why then, does Donald Trump, with no experience or expertise, think he'll make a good leader? 

Dunning and Kruger have some interesting research which showed that people who are not skilled in a field (be it leadership, knowledge of a subject, among others) will lack the meta-cognitive insight to correctly assess their own skill level relative to others. Those who are highly competent will tend to underestimate their skill level relative to others at first. The thing is, I don't think Trump even knows that he is inexperienced. I can't fathom how people would place their trust in him...I doubt he will take advice from other, more knowledgeable advisers as he just seems the type to want to do things his way, and woe to anyone who becomes an obstacle. The arrogance he exudes without merit is just amazing.   

Unfortunately for Hillary Clinton, she doesn't give off as much of the confident vibe that Trump does, which could also have swayed votes in his favour. The least experienced and possibly the least capable of the two seems to be the most confident, which is consistent with the Dunning-Kruger Effect. Confidence, it seems, trumps competence/experience/knowledge.

~-~

Dunning-Kruger Effect.

Here's the full Dunning-Kruger paper in case anyone's interested: Unskilled and Unaware of It: How Difficulties in Recognizing One's Own
Incompetence Lead to Inflated Self-Assessments.

   
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Arturo

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Re: Help me understand...
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2016, 05:48:05 PM »
I think most people don't want to hear the truth. I'm amazed by the amount of rejection and dismissiveness I received when talking about Donald Duck's obvious flaws. I even heard someone call them "assumptions" and when I corrected them it went to "well that's your opinion". THESE ARE F***ING FACTS! It doesn't take a genius to figure out the man is a racist, misogynist, man child.
But, uh...well there it is.
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xSilverPhinx

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Re: Help me understand...
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2016, 06:31:49 PM »
Another funny thing about this whole process is that a lot of people seem to believe that Trump is an honest man, even if he doesn't measure his words publicly. It's all very odd.
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Arturo

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Re: Help me understand...
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2016, 06:48:13 PM »
I sometimes wonder if we are all watching the same man. That some how it's we've been looking at a different person all together than the thing that was voted in. Can things even get voted in? I guess they can.
But, uh...well there it is.
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Steeler

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Re: Help me understand...
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2016, 07:20:55 PM »
I can tell you exactly why I voted for him, if you like.

BUT, I will not get into a pissing match about it.

xSilverPhinx

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Re: Help me understand...
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2016, 07:21:52 PM »
I can tell you exactly why I voted for him, if you like.

I am curious to hear it.
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Asmodean

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Re: Help me understand...
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2016, 07:24:41 PM »
I wouldn't mind reading that too, actually. I'm a bit... Bemused, you might say, by the very possibility of what just occurred, even though I did see it as a real possibility for quite some time.
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Steeler

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Re: Help me understand...
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2016, 07:27:12 PM »
In no order, a couple off the top of my head.
2nd amendment.
Potential supreme court appointees.
Immigration.
Trade.
Eliminate Obama care.
Welfare reform

Those are a few undeniable drastic differences from Hillary.
I'm not without concerns. Foreign policy is a big question mark.

Asmodean

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Re: Help me understand...
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2016, 07:31:20 PM »
At the risk of starting another gun debate, was not the second amendment designed to protect the public from the government or some such?

Assuming the army is with the government (or there really is little point, no?), what chance does a rabble of rednecks with guns stand against a few thousand Tomahawk cruise missile?
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xSilverPhinx

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Re: Help me understand...
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2016, 07:38:40 PM »
In no order, a couple off the top of my head.
2nd amendment.
Potential supreme court appointees.
Immigration.
Trade.
Eliminate Obama care.
Welfare reform

Those are a few undeniable drastic differences from Hillary.
I'm not without concerns. Foreign policy is a big question mark.

Ok, and do you see Trump as someone who can pull it off?
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Steeler

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Re: Help me understand...
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2016, 07:46:54 PM »
In no order, a couple off the top of my head.
2nd amendment.
Potential supreme court appointees.
Immigration.
Trade.
Eliminate Obama care.
Welfare reform

Those are a few undeniable drastic differences from Hillary.
I'm not without concerns. Foreign policy is a big question mark.

Ok, and do you see Trump as someone who can pull it off?

Maybe. I didn't have any other options though, unfortunately.

Steeler

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Re: Help me understand...
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2016, 07:51:15 PM »
At the risk of starting another gun debate, was not the second amendment designed to protect the public from the government or some such?

Assuming the army is with the government (or there really is little point, no?), what chance does a rabble of rednecks with guns stand against a few thousand Tomahawk cruise missile?

First off, all gun owners in the US aren't "rednecks".
It wouldn't come to that anyway IMO. Soldiers turning against the people? No chance, at least not from the ones I know, and their buddies.
I don't think cruise missiles would have much effect, unless you are willing to nuke your whole country.

Asmodean

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Re: Help me understand...
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2016, 07:59:55 PM »
Syria..?

So if not for that, why is the second amendment worth protecting? Is there anything more to it than legislating taste?
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Steeler

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Re: Help me understand...
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2016, 08:08:44 PM »
Because shooting is fun, and I believe I should have the right to defend myself and family.
I'm not a tin foil hat guy, so for me it's not about defending myself against the gov. Not gonna happen.

Asmodean

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Re: Help me understand...
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2016, 08:31:32 PM »
Because shooting is fun, and I believe I should have the right to defend myself and family.
Don't need a gun for that last one, and the first one is about legislating taste. How does the second amendment figure into either, because having read it now, I don't see it;

Quote
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

Where does fun or protection of family figure into that? Also, it does state "a well-regulated militia." Beyond the a, do the American gun owners fit either of those words in quotation marks?
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