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What is Cosmological Evolution?

Started by Magdalena, November 04, 2016, 07:54:46 PM

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Arturo

It's the pump that puts fuel into my muscles to keep lifting these massive weights. RAAAAWWWWRRRRRR!
It's Okay To Say You're Welcome
     Just let people be themselves.
     Arturo The1  リ壱

xSilverPhinx

I am what survives if it's slain - Zack Hemsey


xSilverPhinx

#17
I just heard my niece's paternal grandfather had a heart attack. He stopped breathing for around 18 minutes and is in the hospital right now, in an induced coma. They don't know if he'll have any neurological damage but I think it's quite possible, 18 minutes is a long time.

I'm in a bit of a shock.

Edited to add: this topic was split

What would be a good explanation for death and/or serious neurological damage that a young child could understand? How would an atheist explain these things?

My niece already believes that some people go to heaven because that's what her parents told her is what happens, and I'm not going to argue with that because I'm assuming it's a more comfortable and easier notion for a child to have. Also, I'm already seen as 'the annoying atheist' at times who tarnishes and destroys everything that is beautiful about existence, so I'll leave them to their stories.  I'm just curious about what kind of answers you'll give, because I'm at a loss.   
I am what survives if it's slain - Zack Hemsey


Tank

Quote from: xSilverPhinx on November 06, 2016, 01:13:42 PM
Speaking of hearts, I just heard my niece's paternal grandfather had a heart attack. He stopped breathing for around 18 minutes and is in the hospital right now, in an induced coma. They don't know if he'll have any neurological damage but I think it's quite possible, 18 minutes is a long time.

I'm in a bit of a shock.
Anything over 4 minutes is touch and go so I believe. Not good. 
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
"Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt." ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett
Remember, your inability to grasp science is not a valid argument against it.

xSilverPhinx

#19
Quote from: Tank on November 06, 2016, 03:02:02 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on November 06, 2016, 01:13:42 PM
Speaking of hearts, I just heard my niece's paternal grandfather had a heart attack. He stopped breathing for around 18 minutes and is in the hospital right now, in an induced coma. They don't know if he'll have any neurological damage but I think it's quite possible, 18 minutes is a long time.

I'm in a bit of a shock.
Anything over 4 minutes is touch and go so I believe. Not good.

Yes, I think you're right. His family are hopeful but sadly I think it's misplaced hope. :(

QuoteThe brain, however, appears to accumulate ischemic injury faster than any other organ. Without special treatment after circulation is restarted, full recovery of the brain after more than 3 minutes of clinical death at normal body temperature is rare. Usually brain damage or later brain death results after longer intervals of clinical death even if the heart is restarted and blood circulation is successfully restored. Brain injury is therefore the chief limiting factor for recovery from clinical death.

Clinical Death

I don't know how my niece's parents are going to explain things to her, she's 7 and adores her grandfather.   
I am what survives if it's slain - Zack Hemsey


Magdalena

That's very sad, xSilverPhinx:(

All of my kids have gone through a stage where they start to notice that some people they love are getting old and they worry that they will die soon. (These people are not old, they're in their 30's, 40's 50's) But to them, they're old!

It's difficult to explain death to a child.  :-\

"I've had several "spiritual" or numinous experiences over the years, but never felt that they were the product of anything but the workings of my own mind in reaction to the universe." ~Recusant

xSilverPhinx

Yes, I'd imagine it is (I never had to do it, thankfully). 

I like the way Neil DeGrasse Tyson explains his view of death.



It's not as satisfying to someone with existential dread or the fear of non-existence but it works for me. I don't know what would work for a child though. In the case of my niece, she has the belief that people go to heaven instilled in her already.  ::)
I am what survives if it's slain - Zack Hemsey


Magdalena

^^
Thank you for that, I liked it.
If I'm made from star-stuff, I want to return there, so I would like to be cremated.--When I die.  ;)

"I've had several "spiritual" or numinous experiences over the years, but never felt that they were the product of anything but the workings of my own mind in reaction to the universe." ~Recusant

Sandra Craft

Sorry to hear about your niece's grandfather, xSilverPhinx, death is hard for all survivors but particularly so for little kids.  I think the heaven explanation is so popular, even sometimes with non-religious people, because it's so much easier for a kid to accept that grandpa or aunt Daisy just went somewhere magical and they'll see them again someday.  Little kids often understand magic much better than reality.

Sandy

  

"Life is short, and it is up to you to make it sweet."  Sarah Louise Delany

xSilverPhinx

Quote from: BooksCatsEtc on November 06, 2016, 08:21:23 PM
Sorry to hear about your niece's grandfather, xSilverPhinx, death is hard for all survivors but particularly so for little kids.  I think the heaven explanation is so popular, even sometimes with non-religious people, because it's so much easier for a kid to accept that grandpa or aunt Daisy just went somewhere magical and they'll see them again someday.  Little kids often understand magic much better than reality.

Yes, luckily he's still alive, breathing without the use of machines and has a newly installed pacemaker. He's still in an induced coma though and the most worrisome thing about it all is what kind of neurological sequelae he's suffered and if we can hope for reasonable recovery. I can't think of any magical explanation to explain that kind of damage, the notion of an immaterial 'soul' not bound to matter just doesn't stand up to scrutiny.  :-\
I am what survives if it's slain - Zack Hemsey


xSilverPhinx

Sorry for having derailed your wonderful topic so far off the tracks, Mags. I've split it into a conversation of its own.

Back to stardust and cosmological evolution...

A question: does anybody know if the building blocks of the atoms in the universe have been around since the beginning of time? I've heard of virtual particles, particles that pop in and out of existence, but could they ever stabilise and form something more complex?


I am what survives if it's slain - Zack Hemsey


xSilverPhinx

Here's one of my favourite quotes on the universe:



The part about sufficiently conscious beings such as us (and I'm not ruling out the possibility of other intelligent lifeforms out there) being part of the universe that seeks to understand itself sends a shudder down my spine every time.  8) 
I am what survives if it's slain - Zack Hemsey


Magdalena

Quote from: xSilverPhinx on November 06, 2016, 11:43:42 PM
Sorry for having derailed your wonderful topic so far off the tracks, Mags. I've split it into a conversation of its own.

Back to stardust and cosmological evolution...

A question: does anybody know if the building blocks of the atoms in the universe have been around since the beginning of time? I've heard of virtual particles, particles that pop in and out of existence, but could they ever stabilise and form something more complex?

:foottap:
What are you doing?
Please bring it back.
It belongs here.
The cosmos, from beginning to end. Life and death for humans, Big Bang, and Big Crunch for the universe.

...OK, that probably sounded a little bit weird... :shifty:
But, anyways...
Please, just bring back the rest of it, here. Thank you.

"I've had several "spiritual" or numinous experiences over the years, but never felt that they were the product of anything but the workings of my own mind in reaction to the universe." ~Recusant

Arturo

Yeah I agree with Neil and it sounds magical enough to me. I want to be turned into a tree when I die (either by a coffin that does so or having one planted over me) so that I can contribute to the well-being of this earth by creating oxygen. Maybe you can tell them that's why people die?

Oh oh and another one. People who have more fun go out faster than people who don't. So people who die faster are like fireworks with a big bang to excite you and people who die slower are slow burning candles to light your way. (And by fun I mean they have more sex and more kids)
It's Okay To Say You're Welcome
     Just let people be themselves.
     Arturo The1  リ壱

Dragonia

Last year, a 9 year old friend was killed in a horrific way, and I had to explain death to my children.   We talked extensively about it, and how I wished for easier answers, like the sweet story of happily ever after in heaven, where we get to see all the people we've ever loved..... it would be so much easier and happier.
As it was, we all had to learn to actually just say good bye. Forever. I softened it by saying that we don't really know what happens after death,  but that I think it's like sleeping, where we just won't know anything at all. It was heartbreaking and difficult, but they are kids, and they will (usually) accept what they are taught, process it, and move on. For better or worse.
Aside from that, we keep communication open and they know they can, at any time, ask a question or voice a thought, and we can talk about it. I think that helps too, knowing that they don't have to feel these big feelings alone. 
As far as damage goes, I don't know. It's hard to accept that no matter how old you are.  :(
xSilverPhinx, I wish your family, and this grandfather, the best!
Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle. ~ Plato (?)