Author Topic: Would You Join An Atheist "Church"?  (Read 900 times)

BooksCatsEtc

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Re: Would You Join An Atheist "Church"?
« Reply #15 on: September 06, 2016, 11:57:25 PM »
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Re: Would You Join An Atheist "Church"?
« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2016, 12:19:14 AM »
"Love is a grave mental disease"-Plato
Yep :)
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Asmodean

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Re: Would You Join An Atheist "Church"?
« Reply #17 on: September 07, 2016, 02:41:08 AM »
Would I join an atheist church..? Depends.

The simple answer is "no," because I have a distaste for such groups. Not just churches, but also lobbies, political parties and especially various employment-related unions.

That said, I see how I can be inclined to join a purely social organization, but there, science and/or debate clubs come far above atheist congregations on my list of wants.

I'm perfectly content being a member of an atheist community right here, in the HAF-corner of the Internet. Don't need or particularly want one outside that.
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Kekerusey

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Re: Would You Join An Atheist "Church"?
« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2016, 05:52:40 AM »
Oh there is love here.

Then you and I have very different ideas of what love is. Love to me means I would give my life for that person ... I love my wife, my children, my family, some of my friends, perhaps even put my life on the line for my country. Then it becomes more vague.

I'm a pragmatist, a realist ... I don't know any of you as anything much more than names on an internet page and, whilst there are some I reckon I might like in real life, there are already some I dislike so. This forum is interesting, engages me in an intellectual sense, occasionally amuses me but love? I don't think so.

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Kekerusey

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Re: Would You Join An Atheist "Church"?
« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2016, 05:58:11 AM »
Would I join an atheist church..? Depends.

The simple answer is "no," because I have a distaste for such groups. Not just churches, but also lobbies, political parties and especially various employment-related unions.

That said, I see how I can be inclined to join a purely social organization, but there, science and/or debate clubs come far above atheist congregations on my list of wants.

I'm perfectly content being a member of an atheist community right here, in the HAF-corner of the Internet. Don't need or particularly want one outside that.

OK ... I'm not known for political motivation although I have become much more so following the clusterf*** that was Brexit.

I would definitely join a union partly for protection against the ravages of management (to which I havce recently been subject), partly because I believe in the strength of people in orgainsed groups and partly because I believe we owe a great deal of our current standard of living to their actions in the past. None of which constitutes blanket approval.

Keke
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Asmodean

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Re: Would You Join An Atheist "Church"?
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2016, 06:23:40 AM »
Oh, I would certainly join a union had I not had the capability of negotiating a better deal for myself than the pretty general union-negotiated variety. I'd choke on my own hypocrisy a bit, but my own financial interests would likely win me over... To a degree. I'll come back to that unless I forget. But then, I DO have the abovementioned negotiating capacity, and I think people should develop that rather than rely on someone else to work in their best interest. Granted, it's not as simple as I put it in a few lazily typed lines, but there it is.

What it comes down to, is that I support people getting what they deserve based on the current standard of deserving that best applies to them. Organised workers can often end up getting more or less than they deserve since unions don't know their personal capacity to generate profit, directly or otherwise, for their employer. Me, I won't settle for less, nor would I take more than my due. Not in an employment situation. My work is worth what it's worth, and it's my job to convince my higher-ups of that fact.

That out of the way, I was not aiming at political organisations specifically. I generally dislike "interest groups" for meddling outside their defined scope. To put it this way, if you are a railroad commuters' club, then don't fucking meddle in public education policy. Go ride your trains and leave that stuff to them other assholes.

Now, some groups are better than others, of course, but it seems like you have to buy a fuckload of political agenda, not necessarilly your own, along with pretty much every organised stance you take. Indirectly supporting such agendas by virtue of an active membership is still support, especially in paid membership organisations or those getting government funds calculated based on their membership lists.
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Kekerusey

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Re: Would You Join An Atheist "Church"?
« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2016, 07:20:41 AM »
Snippety snip

I'd agree with most of that although clearly (to me) I'm not the sort of person that can negotiate my own deals with management, you typically need to be a lot more senior than me in Britain.

Keke
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Re: Would You Join An Atheist "Church"?
« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2016, 07:30:26 AM »
There are several different kinds of love. Most people can think of at least two kinds, being that they come from a family and have loved someone romantically (at least I hope that those are two different kinds of love  :puke:). Further, I would consider comradely a form of love, and certainly there are many here that I would say that I love in that way.

I wouldn't join an atheist church unless that time could be used usefully. My family went to church every Sunday and it lasted three hours plus the prep and post time. Such a waste of time. So I feel like an atheist church would also be a waste of time.

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Re: Would You Join An Atheist "Church"?
« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2016, 09:39:59 AM »



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Re: Would You Join An Atheist "Church"?
« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2016, 10:17:21 AM »
Snippety snip

I'd agree with most of that although clearly (to me) I'm not the sort of person that can negotiate my own deals with management, you typically need to be a lot more senior than me in Britain.

Keke
Well, business culture you are in is certainly a factor. Sometimes, it is as you describe over here as well, but very rarely when your job needs you as much as or more than you need it. For my kind of gig, all you need to negotiate your own terms is being good at what you do. And if your terms are reasonable, you'll get what you ask, especially if it's a re-neg and you are well-liked.
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Kekerusey

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Re: Would You Join An Atheist "Church"?
« Reply #25 on: September 07, 2016, 11:39:44 AM »
Well, business culture you are in is certainly a factor. Sometimes, it is as you describe over here as well, but very rarely when your job needs you as much as or more than you need it. For my kind of gig, all you need to negotiate your own terms is being good at what you do. And if your terms are reasonable, you'll get what you ask, especially if it's a re-neg and you are well-liked.

My (now ex) employers would simply shrug and say, "There's the door if you're not happy."

Keke
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Asmodean

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Re: Would You Join An Atheist "Church"?
« Reply #26 on: September 07, 2016, 12:20:04 PM »
My (now ex) employers would simply shrug and say, "There's the door if you're not happy."

Keke
Ah, yes. My employers would only do that if my demands exceeded my usefulness. (Relative to the average in the business)

Finding solid people to work for you isn't easy, so pretty much every employer I've had actively tried to keep the good* ones. It may well be different for "no special training required" jobs... I don't know.

*Not necessarilly the smartest or the most educated, or even particularly expensive. A lot of it is about fitting in, or "being the right man for the job." A LOT of factors go into that.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2016, 12:30:54 PM by Asmodean »
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Kekerusey

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Re: Would You Join An Atheist "Church"?
« Reply #27 on: September 07, 2016, 03:06:55 PM »
Ah, yes. My employers would only do that if my demands exceeded my usefulness. (Relative to the average in the business)

Finding solid people to work for you isn't easy, so pretty much every employer I've had actively tried to keep the good* ones. It may well be different for "no special training required" jobs... I don't know.

*Not necessarilly the smartest or the most educated, or even particularly expensive. A lot of it is about fitting in, or "being the right man for the job." A LOT of factors go into that.

We are (most of us) fairly highly trained people, that just happens to be my ex-employer's general attitude ... it's just their business model. If they actually wanted skilled people they wouldn't be making 400 plus people redundant and off-shoring their roles to India. No one likes Indian helpdesks, not for racist reasons (although I am sure there are some) but because there are accent and cultural differences that make it difficult for us to understand them, that and the fact that they are trained to work largely from scripts.

To me it was clear that this was the way my ex-company was going ever since they bought in a huge server setup intended to virtualise all the client hardware on site ... you could argue it was because virtual servers are more efficient (they are) or you could be more cynical like me and say it's because they wanted to carry out the entire operation from somewhere else ... ultimately it's all about money and for the cost of one UK perosn they can hire 3 or 4 people in India.

Shrug ... it's just the way with a company to whom service is unimportant and money is everything.

Keke
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Asmodean

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Re: Would You Join An Atheist "Church"?
« Reply #28 on: September 07, 2016, 08:38:15 PM »
Ugh... They seem to be lacking in their vision department, among other things. Also, from experience, one fairly competent UK-trained IT consultant is readily worth 3-4 India-trained ones. Mostly for the script-robot reasons you've mentioned.
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Harmonie

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Re: Would You Join An Atheist "Church"?
« Reply #29 on: September 08, 2016, 07:00:45 AM »
Church is so boring! I hated church so much as a child. I'm so glad that in my mid-teens my parents ended up stop going, and thus I stopped having to go.

However, I kind of understand the social aspect, now. I went to my oboe teacher's church a couple of months or so ago, and everyone was so friendly to me, like actually talking to me. They wouldn't have been so friendly if they knew everything about me (particularly my non-belief!), but it was still interesting...

Now I have college, and I've joined the LGBT club and will try to go to the Secular Student Alliance meetings as well. I've got some social interaction there!

I don't blame people for wanting something like it, but why call it 'church'?

"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony