Author Topic: Priests who lose their faith  (Read 964 times)

Magdalena

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Re: Priests who lose their faith
« Reply #30 on: August 14, 2016, 05:29:40 PM »

Being cynical or very cynical is a bad trait.

You sound very pompous, tbh.

Let's just work on one of my character flaws at a time, shall we? :teadrink:
...
:reading:
Yeah, Cirio, don't go too fast, man...One at a time, man...One at at time.


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“I've had several "spiritual" or numinous experiences over the years, but never felt that they were the product of anything but the workings of my own mind in reaction to the universe.” ~Recusant

"Color me fascinated..." ~Asmodean, The Gray God.

xSilverPhinx

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Re: Priests who lose their faith
« Reply #31 on: August 14, 2016, 06:08:30 PM »
I know we've only just met but when you're finished listing Recusant's flaws can you tell me mine? I really want to be able to claim the moral highground in all of my relationships. I was told I can be rather sarcastic but it's not true.  ::)
I'm just a student of the game that they taught me.


Magdalena

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Re: Priests who lose their faith
« Reply #32 on: August 14, 2016, 06:25:41 PM »
I know we've only just met but when you're finished listing Recusant's flaws can you tell me mine? I really want to be able to claim the moral highground in all of my relationships. I was told I can be rather sarcastic but it's not true.  ::)

Ooh! Can I be next!?  :computerwave:


“I've had several "spiritual" or numinous experiences over the years, but never felt that they were the product of anything but the workings of my own mind in reaction to the universe.” ~Recusant

"Color me fascinated..." ~Asmodean, The Gray God.

No one

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Re: Priests who lose their faith
« Reply #33 on: August 14, 2016, 06:34:49 PM »
Come on now you two, we love you just the way you are. Don't ever, change for anyone.

Magdalena

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Re: Priests who lose their faith
« Reply #34 on: August 14, 2016, 07:00:24 PM »
Come on now you two, we love you just the way you are. Don't ever, change for anyone.


“I've had several "spiritual" or numinous experiences over the years, but never felt that they were the product of anything but the workings of my own mind in reaction to the universe.” ~Recusant

"Color me fascinated..." ~Asmodean, The Gray God.

Velma

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Re: Priests who lose their faith
« Reply #35 on: August 14, 2016, 07:32:04 PM »
Plus, there is the fact that pastor or priest is the only job they are trained to do. Those that have a degree, usually have one in some sort of theology or Bible history - such degrees don't really have much cross-over to other areas. So, to support yourself and your family, you don't let on that you now think it is all bunk. You also have to factor in that, once the disbelief is made known, all those people who called him friend will turn on him faster than a rabid dog and force them out of both their home (since many churches provide housing for their pastors) and their job. It takes a lot of strength to be able to cut yourself off from your entire physical social network and safety net.

Indeed, indeed.  To add to that,  I'd be willing to bet both of my testicles that if a priest, rabbi,  or imam,  were just to come out and say,  this is all hogwash and god is make believe, there would be some kind of uproar.  Maybe rather than be the one who struck that match that ignited that powder keg, he decided to stifle his own beliefs for the sake of others.  The needs of the many outweigh, the needs of the few,  or the one. 

Sometimes things happen in life that people don't like.  Sometimes people do things that people don't like.  Sometime people make judgment calls that don't pan out.  When this happens, it's real easy to have the arm chair quarterback, hindsight is 20/20 mentality and condemn them for doing so. As I said,  there are times in life where untruthfulness is less painful than the truth and is the most viable option at the time. How many parents are going to tell their 4 year old that mommy/daddy isn't going to get better,  and is going to die,  even though they know that is the outcome until they absolutely have to?
I've read some of the stories of pastors who have lost their faith. Many of them do wind up staying, at least for a time, because they have no other options. It takes time to get prepared for another, secular job and to save up the money to move to new living quarters. Religious leaders who have let it be known they have lost their faith, have received death threats against them and their families.

It is easy to sit back and judge. However, these people are leaving the only life they have known for years. It is not done easily or lightly. If keeping a job that provides food, clothing, and shelter for me and my family requires faking it for a time, then so be it. Heck, it is not like the flock is living in the light of truth as it is.
Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of the astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy.~Carl Sagan

xSilverPhinx

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Re: Priests who lose their faith
« Reply #36 on: August 14, 2016, 10:00:38 PM »
Come on now you two, we love you just the way you are. Don't ever, change for anyone.

Thanks, No one! :grin:
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Tank

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Re: Priests who lose their faith
« Reply #37 on: August 14, 2016, 10:31:09 PM »
Sometimes being untruthful,  to protect people,  to put them at ease, is what is called for, and that's just the way it is.  People may not like it,  but that's too bad.  Life is full of things that people don't like,  or think is wrong,  but you know what,  life does not give a shit.  Never has,  never will.
I disagree with that, on many levels. No one should be that cynical.
Except you.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
“Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt.” ― Richard P. Feynman
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Tank

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Re: Priests who lose their faith
« Reply #38 on: August 14, 2016, 10:32:15 PM »

I'd lke to know what he preached during that time.
Probably the same old same old.
The project seems dedicated to support for the clergy with little regard for the people who were abused.
I am sure the everloving church gave the parishioners all the councelling and  sermonising they needed.

I would like to know your qualifications for judging another's morals on a brief encounter ofvthis type. Opinion is one thing, but needs stating as such.

Same as anyone else, buddy. We all have an opinion. Unless you're saying that newbies don't get a voice.
Really?
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
“Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt.” ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett

Tank

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Re: Priests who lose their faith
« Reply #39 on: August 14, 2016, 10:34:04 PM »
Why not?  I call them like I see them.  The human being is an insignificant insect mammal.  If you don't like the way life is,  too bad.

 :fixed:
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
“Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt.” ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett

Tank

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Re: Priests who lose their faith
« Reply #40 on: August 14, 2016, 10:41:26 PM »

That's a very cynical comment . . .

I admit to being cynical, though "very" cynical is a judgment call.  :)

. . .and one I don't agree with. You should consider your moral position.

Disagreement in this context is good; it makes for more stimulating and interesting discussions. I will contemplate your admonishment in the wee hours as I lament my many failings.

The project seems dedicated to support for the clergy with little regard for the people who were abused.

It's called the Clergy Project for a reason.

Do you believe that a failure to be perfectly honest is always equal to abuse?

Being cynical or very cynical is a bad trait.

You sound very pompous, tbh.


It would be helpful if a project to support clergy who lose their faith would also consider those who have been misled. It might help the next generation to mitigate their ..... errors. I was about to say sins.

Deliberately misleading people could have effects on their lives which would be considered abuse. Many companies and banks have been sued for that kind of thing.

How many of Recusants post of you read? I'll tell you. Not enough.

While you are ripping somebody else off for their behaviour let me explain your behaviour to you. Arrogant, opinionated and frankly rude. You're behaving like some teenage punk who walks into a country pub and starts challenging the locals to knock a chip of his shoulder. I await your reply with great interest.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
“Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt.” ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett

Magdalena

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Re: Priests who lose their faith
« Reply #41 on: August 15, 2016, 08:33:16 AM »
... I await your reply with great interest.

Nothing, yet?


“I've had several "spiritual" or numinous experiences over the years, but never felt that they were the product of anything but the workings of my own mind in reaction to the universe.” ~Recusant

"Color me fascinated..." ~Asmodean, The Gray God.

OldGit

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Re: Priests who lose their faith
« Reply #42 on: August 15, 2016, 09:21:53 AM »
Quote from: Velma
It is easy to sit back and judge. However, these people are leaving the only life they have known for years. It is not done easily or lightly. If keeping a job that provides food, clothing, and shelter for me and my family requires faking it for a time, then so be it. Heck, it is not like the flock is living in the light of truth as it is.

I agree.  Also, is there really a clear point in time when faith must be considered lost?  Or rather, would there not be a fuzzy area in which nothing is clear enough to make  life-changing decisions?

Gloucester

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Re: Priests who lose their faith
« Reply #43 on: August 15, 2016, 09:44:57 AM »
Quote from: Velma
It is easy to sit back and judge. However, these people are leaving the only life they have known for years. It is not done easily or lightly. If keeping a job that provides food, clothing, and shelter for me and my family requires faking it for a time, then so be it. Heck, it is not like the flock is living in the light of truth as it is.

I agree.  Also, is there really a clear point in time when faith must be considered lost?  Or rather, would there not be a fuzzy area in which nothing is clear enough to make  life-changing decisions?
And as with any break with a deeply held belief, admitting to one's self that, "It is all over," can be a life shattering event, full of guilt. It is natural for some to attempt to maintain the status quo, put it off.
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.

No one

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Re: Priests who lose their faith
« Reply #44 on: August 15, 2016, 11:51:36 AM »
Why not?  I call them like I see them.  The human being is an insignificant insect mammal.  If you don't like the way life is,  too bad.

 :fixed:

Thanks,  but I was using the term in the most demeaning way possible. I know humans aren't literally insects,  but cosmically speaking, it describes them pretty well.  Actually, if you think about it, they are straight up microscopic.