Author Topic: Priests who lose their faith  (Read 965 times)

Cirio

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Re: Priests who lose their faith
« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2016, 02:35:36 PM »

I'd lke to know what he preached during that time.
Probably the same old same old.
The project seems dedicated to support for the clergy with little regard for the people who were abused.
I am sure the everloving church gave the parishioners all the councelling and  sermonising they needed.

I would like to know your qualifications for judging another's morals on a brief encounter ofvthis type. Opinion is one thing, but needs stating as such.

Same as anyone else, buddy. We all have an opinion. Unless you're saying that newbies don't get a voice.
I'm glad I don't have to be afraid of going to hell.....

No one

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Re: Priests who lose their faith
« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2016, 02:37:22 PM »
Sometimes being untruthful,  to protect people,  to put them at ease, is what is called for, and that's just the way it is.  People may not like it,  but that's too bad.  Life is full of things that people don't like,  or think is wrong,  but you know what,  life does not give a shit.  Never has,  never will.

Cirio

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Re: Priests who lose their faith
« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2016, 02:41:59 PM »
Sometimes being untruthful,  to protect people,  to put them at ease, is what is called for, and that's just the way it is.  People may not like it,  but that's too bad.  Life is full of things that people don't like,  or think is wrong,  but you know what,  life does not give a shit.  Never has,  never will.
I disagree with that, on many levels. No one should be that cynical.
I'm glad I don't have to be afraid of going to hell.....

Gloucester

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Re: Priests who lose their faith
« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2016, 02:45:53 PM »
Should you try to do your job when you know it's wrong? If you need the employment/accomodation, then that's understandable, maybe. The other reasons? Dubious, at least.
Betcha there are more than a few priests, of any variety, working under false pretenses! And that excluding actual abuse of people of any age in any way.

But, speaking of abuse . . . Took decades to get a whole religious sect to appologise for centuries of wholesale abuse of various kinds. And even that has not solved the problem yet.

Religion can be as destructive and disruptive a force as it claims to be a uniting one. As great a source of hatred as one of love. Please apply your opinion and your moral values to the whole edifice if you see no balance in the case of this individual.

Later thought: should not the whole of religion apologise to the believers for centuries of telling them lies?
« Last Edit: August 14, 2016, 02:58:51 PM by Gloucester »
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.

No one

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Re: Priests who lose their faith
« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2016, 02:47:11 PM »
Why not?  I call them like I see them.  The human being is an insignificant insect.  If you don't like the way life is,  too bad.

Cirio

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Re: Priests who lose their faith
« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2016, 02:55:23 PM »
That was one of the points of the OP, I don't know why you're repeating it.

I made no comment about the RCC if that's what you're referring to.

We know about the corrosive effects of religion.

Note: this was a reply to Gloucester.
I'm glad I don't have to be afraid of going to hell.....

Gloucester

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Re: Priests who lose their faith
« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2016, 03:02:13 PM »
That was one of the points of the OP, I don't know why you're repeating it.

I made no comment about the RCC if that's what you're referring to.

We know about the corrosive effects of religion.

Note: this was a reply to Gloucester.
OK, getting past this old fogie's sleep time (since I am medically warned off nice, caffeine rich beverages!)
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.

Recusant

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Re: Priests who lose their faith
« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2016, 03:04:25 PM »

That's a very cynical comment . . .

I admit to being cynical, though "very" cynical is a judgment call.  :)

. . .and one I don't agree with. You should consider your moral position.

Disagreement in this context is good; it makes for more stimulating and interesting discussions. I will contemplate your admonishment in the wee hours as I lament my many failings.

The project seems dedicated to support for the clergy with little regard for the people who were abused.

It's called the Clergy Project for a reason.

Do you believe that a failure to be perfectly honest is always equal to abuse?
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
— H. L. Mencken


Cirio

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Re: Priests who lose their faith
« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2016, 03:17:39 PM »

That's a very cynical comment . . .

I admit to being cynical, though "very" cynical is a judgment call.  :)

. . .and one I don't agree with. You should consider your moral position.

Disagreement in this context is good; it makes for more stimulating and interesting discussions. I will contemplate your admonishment in the wee hours as I lament my many failings.

The project seems dedicated to support for the clergy with little regard for the people who were abused.

It's called the Clergy Project for a reason.

Do you believe that a failure to be perfectly honest is always equal to abuse?

Being cynical or very cynical is a bad trait.

You sound very pompous, tbh.

It would be helpful if a project to support clergy who lose their faith would also consider those who have been misled. It might help the next generation to mitigate their ..... errors. I was about to say sins.

Deliberately misleading people could have effects on their lives which would be considered abuse. Many companies and banks have been sued for that kind of thing.
I'm glad I don't have to be afraid of going to hell.....

Gloucester

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Re: Priests who lose their faith
« Reply #24 on: August 14, 2016, 03:19:15 PM »
Quote
You sound very pompous, tbh.

Hah!
Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.

No one

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Re: Priests who lose their faith
« Reply #25 on: August 14, 2016, 03:22:10 PM »
Quote
You sound very pompous, tbh.

Hah!

Anyoneo know  if the kettle has posted yet?
« Last Edit: August 14, 2016, 05:16:33 PM by No one »

Velma

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Re: Priests who lose their faith
« Reply #26 on: August 14, 2016, 03:38:23 PM »
Sometimes being untruthful,  to protect people,  to put them at ease, is what is called for, and that's just the way it is.  People may not like it,  but that's too bad.  Life is full of things that people don't like,  or think is wrong,  but you know what,  life does not give a shit.  Never has,  never will.
Plus, there is the fact that pastor or priest is the only job they are trained to do. Those that have a degree, usually have one in some sort of theology or Bible history - such degrees don't really have much cross-over to other areas. So, to support yourself and your family, you don't let on that you now think it is all bunk. You also have to factor in that, once the disbelief is made known, all those people who called him friend will turn on him faster than a rabid dog and force them out of both their home (since many churches provide housing for their pastors) and their job. It takes a lot of strength to be able to cut yourself off from your entire physical social network and safety net.

Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of the astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy.~Carl Sagan

Recusant

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Re: Priests who lose their faith
« Reply #27 on: August 14, 2016, 03:48:40 PM »

Being cynical or very cynical is a bad trait.

You sound very pompous, tbh.

Let's just work on one of my character flaws at a time, shall we? :teadrink:

It would be helpful if a project to support clergy who lose their faith would also consider those who have been misled. It might help the next generation to mitigate their ..... errors. I was about to say sins.

Deliberately misleading people could have effects on their lives which would be considered abuse. Many companies and banks have been sued for that kind of thing.

Given that it's entirely possible for a person to believe that their work in the church is having a positive effect on the community even though that person no longer believes in the religion, hypothetical ill effects may not even enter into their consideration of the situation. They may be mistaken, but again, I don't consider myself in a position to judge them, especially not in a case like Morgan's, where I don't know anything about what he was actually preaching, nor what else his work at the church entailed.

Malfeasance by a corporation or a bank is something we can objectively measure. Can you objectively measure the hypothetical harm caused by an atheist minister? What sort of harm are you talking about?
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
— H. L. Mencken


No one

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Re: Priests who lose their faith
« Reply #28 on: August 14, 2016, 04:33:32 PM »
Plus, there is the fact that pastor or priest is the only job they are trained to do. Those that have a degree, usually have one in some sort of theology or Bible history - such degrees don't really have much cross-over to other areas. So, to support yourself and your family, you don't let on that you now think it is all bunk. You also have to factor in that, once the disbelief is made known, all those people who called him friend will turn on him faster than a rabid dog and force them out of both their home (since many churches provide housing for their pastors) and their job. It takes a lot of strength to be able to cut yourself off from your entire physical social network and safety net.

Indeed, indeed.  To add to that,  I'd be willing to bet both of my testicles that if a priest, rabbi,  or imam,  were just to come out and say,  this is all hogwash and god is make believe, there would be some kind of uproar.  Maybe rather than be the one who struck that match that ignited that powder keg, he decided to stifle his own beliefs for the sake of others.  The needs of the many outweigh, the needs of the few,  or the one. 

Sometimes things happen in life that people don't like.  Sometimes people do things that people don't like.  Sometime people make judgment calls that don't pan out.  When this happens, it's real easy to have the arm chair quarterback, hindsight is 20/20 mentality and condemn them for doing so. As I said,  there are times in life where untruthfulness is less painful than the truth and is the most viable option at the time. How many parents are going to tell their 4 year old that mommy/daddy isn't going to get better,  and is going to die,  even though they know that is the outcome until they absolutely have to?

xSilverPhinx

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Re: Priests who lose their faith
« Reply #29 on: August 14, 2016, 04:50:55 PM »
Hi, another cynical poster here.  :wave hi:

Thing is, looks like you're over simplifying what can be a complex situation involving so many factors. If only life were that easy for everyone! It's not.

Even good people lie, and lies can be justified. Would you consider telling a believer on their deathbed that God doesn't exist? 
I'm just a student of the game that they taught me.