Walking Dead II

[Ecurb Noselrub]

Hating Lori is perfectly normal. Soon you'll hate Andrea too.

And Shane.  Gotta hate Shane.

[Sandra Craft]

Hating Lori is perfectly normal. Soon you'll hate Andrea too.

And Shane.  Gotta hate Shane.

So far I'm still OK with Andrea.  Shane I always knew had to go -- he had a strong "not to be trusted" vibe.

[Sandra Craft]

OK, out of the second season and just starting the third.  Should finish catching up during the weekend.  I have to ask, of those who can remember season 2, does anybody really believe that none of the farm people knew Sophia was in the barn? 

I could have accepted them not telling anyone because it would have been hard to explain why they put her in the barn, to say nothing of having to spill the beans on all the other walkers, but to insist none of them knew about her at all really takes credulity past the breaking point.  Otis seemed to have been doing most of the walker collecting, and he definitely seemed like a talker to me.  That's not to say he couldn't keep a secret, but if something as poignant as capturing a child walker had happened, he'd have mentioned that to someone who already knew about the barn.  I think he would have needed to talk about it to someone -- to Patricia or Dr. Herschel, at the very least.  Even if Otis hadn't had an emotional need to talk about it, it's a given he would have kept Dr. Herschel up to date on the tally in the barn.  It's not only the sort of thing he'd have to know but the sort of thing he did know about the other barn denizens.

The point is, someone other than the quickly dead Otis should have known about that little girl in the barn and put 2 and 2 together when the rest of the Grimes group turned up and told them they were looking for a little girl who went missing around the time they collected one. 

Otherwise it's just a big, clunky pot hole in the story.  I have even more trouble with this than Lori's driving off alone to join Rick and Glenn in finding Herschel.  Because really, driving off alone at night to do something Rick and Glenn were already doing (and how many people can it take to find Herschel?) had been established as the sort of nitwit thing Lori would do, but clinging to a lie like the one about Sophia seemed way out of character for Dr. Herschel.

[chimp3]

BooksCatsEtc. : Suspension of your critical faculties will be a necessary skill through the rest of your binge.

[Ecurb Noselrub]

BooksCatsEtc. : Suspension of your critical faculties will be a necessary skill through the rest of your binge.

Absolutely.  You have to go into total escape mode. Just enjoy the gore.

[Davin]

OK, out of the second season and just starting the third.  Should finish catching up during the weekend.  I have to ask, of those who can remember season 2, does anybody really believe that none of the farm people knew Sophia was in the barn? 

I could have accepted them not telling anyone because it would have been hard to explain why they put her in the barn, to say nothing of having to spill the beans on all the other walkers, but to insist none of them knew about her at all really takes credulity past the breaking point.  Otis seemed to have been doing most of the walker collecting, and he definitely seemed like a talker to me.  That's not to say he couldn't keep a secret, but if something as poignant as capturing a child walker had happened, he'd have mentioned that to someone who already knew about the barn.  I think he would have needed to talk about it to someone -- to Patricia or Dr. Herschel, at the very least.  Even if Otis hadn't had an emotional need to talk about it, it's a given he would have kept Dr. Herschel up to date on the tally in the barn.  It's not only the sort of thing he'd have to know but the sort of thing he did know about the other barn denizens.

The point is, someone other than the quickly dead Otis should have known about that little girl in the barn and put 2 and 2 together when the rest of the Grimes group turned up and told them they were looking for a little girl who went missing around the time they collected one. 

Otherwise it's just a big, clunky pot hole in the story.  I have even more trouble with this than Lori's driving off alone to join Rick and Glenn in finding Herschel.  Because really, driving off alone at night to do something Rick and Glenn were already doing (and how many people can it take to find Herschel?) had been established as the sort of nitwit thing Lori would do, but clinging to a lie like the one about Sophia seemed way out of character for Dr. Herschel.

I don't think they put Sophia into the barn, I think she got in on her own and died in the barn. I don't think they were keeping a close eye on the quantity of zombies.

[Sandra Craft]

BooksCatsEtc. : Suspension of your critical faculties will be a necessary skill through the rest of your binge.

Absolutely.  You have to go into total escape mode. Just enjoy the gore.

I'm not sure I can do it -- I have the soul of an editor.  And since I'm not really into gore, my escape will have to be enjoying the good-looking people.  And not be bothered by the fact that nearly a year into the zombie apocalypse they all have bright white teeth and the women shave their underarms and legs regularly.  Arrgghh!  I just can't do it!

Anyway, just finished season 3 and was not much impressed by it.  I got bored with the Andrea/Governor show very quickly -- altho I thought Andrea started out as a promising enough character, in the end she just fizzled, and the Governor was never more than a cartoon.  They were boring separately and there was no improvement in putting them together.  Worse yet, the Governor is still out there -- someone please tell me he doesn't show up again.

I found Rick's temporary insanity tedious and Carl's recklessness more a new level of stupid than courage.  And I never again want to see anyone fall to the ground and roll around weeping.  I'm sure it happens in real life, I just don't want to see it.

I have no problem with somebody taking over Dale's place as the moral center of the group, but it was rather jarring when Dr. Herschel made the 180 to do it -- not that he wasn't moral before in his own way but he certainly wasn't so welcoming or forgiving back on the farm.  It seemed to me they were setting up Rick to be the moral center with his "be like Dale" campaign, but I guess that idea got junked.

Having done all this nitpicking, there were some things I did enjoy, chief among them Glenn's bound-to-a-chair fight with a zombie.  Way to go, Glenn!

And I'm right back to nitpicking because that reminds me of how Maggie continues to perplex me with her hot and cold nonsense, plus half the time I don't understand what she's talking about.  What does "I just wanted you to see me" even mean?

I'm wondering why I find so many of the female characters so unsympathetic.  I know this is based on a comic book written by men, and those same men are in charge of the show, and I'm wondering if that's it.  Or maybe it's just me.

[Sandra Craft]

I don't think they put Sophia into the barn, I think she got in on her own and died in the barn. I don't think they were keeping a close eye on the quantity of zombies.

But if Sophia could get into the barn on her own, other zombies could have gotten out -- Sophia was a child, but not a small one.  And it's inconceivable that they would not keep tabs on how many people were in the barn.  They had to know how many animals to throw in to feed them all so they didn't get rowdy from hunger, and they'd have to know if the barn was filling up to the point were another zombie enclosure needed to be found or built.

[Firebird]

I think the implication was that Otis was collecting walkers regularly and the rest of the group either didn't know or didn't make the connection. But you're not wrong.

Fast-forwarding to this season, while Morgan has pissed me off, he's at least been consistent. Carol wigging out and leaving seemed like a sudden 180 for the kind of character she had developed into. And she was one of my favorites, so this sudden change bugs me a lot.

[Pasta Chick]

No one liked Rick's weeping and insanity. That's why we have the Ricks Bad Dad Joke Meme!!

[Davin]

I don't think they put Sophia into the barn, I think she got in on her own and died in the barn. I don't think they were keeping a close eye on the quantity of zombies.

But if Sophia could get into the barn on her own, other zombies could have gotten out -- Sophia was a child, but not a small one.  And it's inconceivable that they would not keep tabs on how many people were in the barn.  They had to know how many animals to throw in to feed them all so they didn't get rowdy from hunger, and they'd have to know if the barn was filling up to the point were another zombie enclosure needed to be found or built.

As far as I have seen on the show, these zombies cannot climb, while children younger than her can. The Zombies do not appear to be able to use ladders, while a child younger than her can. So I don't see how it would be that unbelievable to conceive that a child could climb up (much the same way Glenn did), into the barn in such a way that the zombies could not also get out.

[Sandra Craft]

I don't think they put Sophia into the barn, I think she got in on her own and died in the barn. I don't think they were keeping a close eye on the quantity of zombies.

But if Sophia could get into the barn on her own, other zombies could have gotten out -- Sophia was a child, but not a small one.  And it's inconceivable that they would not keep tabs on how many people were in the barn.  They had to know how many animals to throw in to feed them all so they didn't get rowdy from hunger, and they'd have to know if the barn was filling up to the point were another zombie enclosure needed to be found or built.

As far as I have seen on the show, these zombies cannot climb, while children younger than her can. The Zombies do not appear to be able to use ladders, while a child younger than her can. So I don't see how it would be that unbelievable to conceive that a child could climb up (much the same way Glenn did), into the barn in such a way that the zombies could not also get out.

Oh, I see, so you're saying she was alive when she went into the barn and then just fell off the ledge into the zombie pit?  Still finding that a bit of a stretch since the house was right there, but OK.  I was assuming she'd been zombified in the forest and then collected when she got stuck in the mud like all the others.

[Ecurb Noselrub]

I don't think they put Sophia into the barn, I think she got in on her own and died in the barn. I don't think they were keeping a close eye on the quantity of zombies.

But if Sophia could get into the barn on her own, other zombies could have gotten out -- Sophia was a child, but not a small one.  And it's inconceivable that they would not keep tabs on how many people were in the barn.  They had to know how many animals to throw in to feed them all so they didn't get rowdy from hunger, and they'd have to know if the barn was filling up to the point were another zombie enclosure needed to be found or built.

As far as I have seen on the show, these zombies cannot climb, while children younger than her can. The Zombies do not appear to be able to use ladders, while a child younger than her can. So I don't see how it would be that unbelievable to conceive that a child could climb up (much the same way Glenn did), into the barn in such a way that the zombies could not also get out.

Oh, I see, so you're saying she was alive when she went into the barn and then just fell off the ledge into the zombie pit?  Still finding that a bit of a stretch since the house was right there, but OK.  I was assuming she'd been zombified in the forest and then collected when she got stuck in the mud like all the others.

That involves a good bit of speculation.  It's better to just suspend belief and accept what happened, and then revel in the slaughter.  That's what it's all about - I don't know why it's so appealing.  We are a strange lot.

[Sandra Craft]

That involves a good bit of speculation.  It's better to just suspend belief and accept what happened, and then revel in the slaughter.  That's what it's all about - I don't know why it's so appealing.  We are a strange lot.

I generally look away during the slaughter, unless it's something incredibly cool like Glenn's fighting a zombie while duct taped to a chair.  I'm still enjoying how awesome that was.

BTW, just finished ep. 5 of season 4 and I see the Governor is back.  I may stab myself in the head.

[chimp3]

I don't believe the puzzle of whether Sophia was hidden from Ricks group is answered. The show just moves on. One moral dilemma after another. The core moral question of the show is whether or not Rick is veering into evil or protecting goodness. Carol , Morgan , Marshone  , Deanna ,Herschel ,or Darrell are just embodiments of the alternative moral realities available for Rick to choose from or build upon.