Author Topic: Armed "Militia", Bundy Brothers, Take Over Federal Building in Rural Oregon  (Read 4796 times)

Guardian85

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Davin

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Too bad they weren't also doomsday preppers.

Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.

Pasta Chick

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Having read about this I largely support the protesters while wholly deploring their actions. As far as I understand it the two individuals were charged and found guilty of starting an unauthorized fire on government land. This got a relatively sort prison sentence. Before they could serve this the Government charged them under terrorist legislation that carried a minimum 5 year sentence and undoubtedly added them to all kinds of lists in perpetuity. That was not right. However the unfortunate mixture of the American 'I'm right therefore you're wrong!' debating style, where compromise is seen as failure, and the gun toting attitude of the protesters has lead to a perfect storm.

It appears you've been misinformed, Tank: I'd like to read your source. The Hammonds were convicted of an offence which carried a minimum sentence of five years. In fact there were multiple offenses, but there had been a deal in which the Hammonds would not serve any more than one five year sentence. The judge decided to ignore that and imposed lesser sentences, which the government appealed. On appeal, the finding was in favor of the government. See "What Happened In The Hammond Sentencing In Oregon? A Lawsplainer"
I can't find the article. I do recall that a judge had passed a shorter sentence and that the Government appealed and got the 5 year sentence. The article I read implied that there were two laws and that the first had no 'terrorist' element in it. If I come across the article again I'll post it here.

This is where shit really gets scary to me, because I fully believe that article exists. I've now seen dozens of writings ranging anywhere from news articles to barely coherent rants saying similar. A blatant disregard for facts seems to be a hallmark of the militant gun-loving US extremists, which makes it really fucking difficult to know what's going on.

In any case, the law they were prosecuted under is part of an act aimed at stopping terrorism. But it was the same law both times. The first district judge decided he didn't like the minimum scentance and chose to override it, which he doesn't actually have the authority to do. The government went through the proper channels to appeal his ruling - which, ironically, is why it took long enough for the men to have served their original sentence which seems to be a large part of why people are mad about "double jeopardy". The men were givin the original full minimum sentence with credit for time already served, not fully resentanced to an additional 5 years - which also seems to missing or incorrect in many articles.

 http://www.justice.gov/usao-or/pr/eastern-oregon-ranchers-convicted-arson-resentenced-five-years-prison

Velma

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Too bad they weren't also doomsday preppers.
It is rather funny that they seem to be less prepared for an extended occupation of a federal building than most people are for a weekend away.
Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of the astonishing universe, and it is sad to see so many dreaming it away on spiritual fantasy.~Carl Sagan

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Some damned commie libruls in Portland are having fun at the expense of the glorious patriots at Malheur. The Portland Mercury Blogtown

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"Jason pressed Jed against a rack of "Birds of Oregon" books; his breath was sweet with jerky. Somewhere, an egret cried"
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
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Pasta Chick

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There is a Go Fund Me running to send them $350 worth of gummy dicks.

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Just in case anybody you know believes that the wannabes playing house at Malheur have a legitimate point: "Supreme Court already ruled that feds rightly own occupied refuge" | OregonLive

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Occupiers of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge question whether the federal government has unequivocal legal rights to own and manage that land, without regard to the wishes of local property owners and ranchers.

Improbably, the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled on exactly that question, specifically regarding the lands of the original Malheur national refuge -- twice.

Those rulings by the nation's highest court, in 1902 and in 1935, found that the federal government has an incontrovertible claim to the refuge's wetlands and lakebeds, dating back to the 1840s, when Oregon was still a territory.

"Before Oregon was admitted to statehood, the United States is shown to have acquired title which it has never in terms conveyed away," Justice Harlan Stone wrote in 1935.

[Continues . . .]

Not that this would make a dent in the true believers' blind support of the Bundy gang.
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
— H. L. Mencken


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"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
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Davin

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Well, it's what they say all those "well fare queens" do with their money, so why not the useless, jobless, layabouts standing around doing nothing?

Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.

BooksCatsEtc

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This is trending on Twitter right now, and no wonder:
https://twitter.com/search?q=%23bundyeroticfanfic&src=typd
Sandy

  
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Pasta Chick

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#bundyeroticfanfic is amazing.

I am liking that a strong majority seems to be going the way of "let's laugh at these assholes until they crawl away in shame".

Point on my mind: A lot of people seem to be of the opinion that we should blast them to smithereens because "that's what would have happened if they were black or Muslim". While that is most likely what would have happened, I find this an odd train of thought. The worst of us use unjustified violence, so we should all lower ourselves to unjustified violence?  Shouldn't we be holding this as an example of a better way to handle a situation and addressing WHY a minority group would be killed for for the same actions?

Davin

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Point on my mind: A lot of people seem to be of the opinion that we should blast them to smithereens because "that's what would have happened if they were black or Muslim". While that is most likely what would have happened, I find this an odd train of thought. The worst of us use unjustified violence, so we should all lower ourselves to unjustified violence?  Shouldn't we be holding this as an example of a better way to handle a situation and addressing WHY a minority group would be killed for for the same actions?
Yeah, I'd prefer it if we handled all these kinds of situations better. Like handling the minority cases just as calmly instead of adding even more killing.

Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.

Recusant

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There's a lot of the talk in militia and militia-friendly circles to the effect that many of those at Malheur are government provocateurs. Of course that's pretty much a reflex response for that particular demographic—to hear them tell it, practically all of the mass shootings in the news are false flag operations set up by the vast Obamunist Conspiracy to promote a gun-grabbing agenda.

It's a nice way to back away from all their chest-thumping about taking on the government with their arsenals of personal weapons—they'd be playing into the hands of the Conspiracy if they "fell for" this, "having been provoked by federales in Patriot clothing" (direct quote).
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
— H. L. Mencken


Davin

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There's a lot of the talk in militia and militia-friendly circles to the effect that many of those at Malheur are government provocateurs. Of course that's pretty much a reflex response for that particular demographic—to hear them tell it, practically all of the mass shootings in the news are false flag operations set up by the vast Obamunist Conspiracy to promote a gun-grabbing agenda.

It's a nice way to back away from all their chest-thumping about taking on the government with their arsenals of personal weapons—they'd be playing into the hands of the Conspiracy if they "fell for" this, "having been provoked by federales in Patriot clothing" (direct quote).
Wow, that is kind of funny. Their paranoia is hindering them from ever "rising up against the oppression," because anyone who starts is seen as a trick by the oppressors.

Always question all authorities because the authority you don't question is the most dangerous... except me, never question me.

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The squatting dingbats are getting more than snacks in the mail. "Vanilla ISIS Doesn’t Appreciate Your Bag Of Dicks" | Liberal Alert
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
— H. L. Mencken