Author Topic: Armed "Militia", Bundy Brothers, Take Over Federal Building in Rural Oregon  (Read 5312 times)

Tank

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I think the media is using "militia" because that's what this gang of white-skinned thugs calls themselves.  If they had brown skin, the media would have no problem calling them thugs.  I just can't believe none of these idiots were jailed long ago.
They should just call them what they really are. Terrorists.
Nope. They haven't killed/harmed/kidnapped anyone for the purpose of causing terror. So they aren't yet terrorists.
Fair enough. So only armed criminals with an agenda.
Quite right!
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Tank

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Nope. They haven't killed/harmed/kidnapped anyone for the purpose of causing terror. So they aren't yet terrorists.

They could, using weapons to intimidate for political goal is a form of terrorism.
Then they'd be intimidators. They actions are not intended, or actually have, induced 'terror'. More likely irritation. Would that make them an 'irritant of arseholes'.
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^ That would make them wild west cowboys.

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I could swear I heard something on TV about the Bundy brothers surrendering to serve out the rest of their sentence, but I can't find anything about it now.

In the meantime, here are the thoughts of one of my favorite Xtian bloggers on it: White American Christian Terrorists are still terrorists, aren't they?
Sandy

  
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I've been thinking about this, it seems to me that these guys want an armed confrontation with the government.  Don't give it to them.  I agree with the idea of blockading the site, stopping all food, water and power, jamming cell phone access and also jamming all radio broadcasts near the site and then setting up a sound system - but just play one song, maybe ABBA's Mamma Mia, over and over and over and over, continuously and at high volume.  After a couple of weeks of that I'm pretty sure they'll beg to be taken away and locked up in a nice quiet prison cell...
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Tank

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Having read about this I largely support the protesters while wholly deploring their actions. As far as I understand it the two individuals were charged and found guilty of starting an unauthorized fire on government land. This got a relatively sort prison sentence. Before they could serve this the Government charged them under terrorist legislation that carried a minimum 5 year sentence and undoubtedly added them to all kinds of lists in perpetuity. That was not right. However the unfortunate mixture of the American 'I'm right therefore you're wrong!' debating style, where compromise is seen as failure, and the gun toting attitude of the protesters has lead to a perfect storm.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
“Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt.” ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett

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I could swear I heard something on TV about the Bundy brothers surrendering to serve out the rest of their sentence, but I can't find anything about it now.

In the meantime, here are the thoughts of one of my favorite Xtian bloggers on it: White American Christian Terrorists are still terrorists, aren't they?

The Bundys are true believers as far as I can tell; full of self-righteousness and unlikely to ever admit their cause is stuffed with sawdust. Most likely what you're recalling is a report of the surrender of the Hammonds, whom the Bundys and their gaggle of nitwits believe they're "defending."

The Hammonds have disavowed the militia goons pretty much since they took over the refuge (whose name roughly translates to "bad luck" in French), and had said they would serve out the sentences given them by the judge.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2016, 02:56:13 AM by Recusant »
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Recusant

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Having read about this I largely support the protesters while wholly deploring their actions. As far as I understand it the two individuals were charged and found guilty of starting an unauthorized fire on government land. This got a relatively sort prison sentence. Before they could serve this the Government charged them under terrorist legislation that carried a minimum 5 year sentence and undoubtedly added them to all kinds of lists in perpetuity. That was not right. However the unfortunate mixture of the American 'I'm right therefore you're wrong!' debating style, where compromise is seen as failure, and the gun toting attitude of the protesters has lead to a perfect storm.

It appears you've been misinformed, Tank: I'd like to read your source. The Hammonds were convicted of an offence which carried a minimum sentence of five years. In fact there were multiple offenses, but there had been a deal in which the Hammonds would not serve any more than one five year sentence. The judge decided to ignore that and imposed lesser sentences, which the government appealed. On appeal, the finding was in favor of the government. See "What Happened In The Hammond Sentencing In Oregon? A Lawsplainer"
« Last Edit: January 05, 2016, 03:06:23 AM by Recusant »
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
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"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
— H. L. Mencken


Pasta Chick

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Having read about this I largely support the protesters while wholly deploring their actions. As far as I understand it the two individuals were charged and found guilty of starting an unauthorized fire on government land. This got a relatively sort prison sentence. Before they could serve this the Government charged them under terrorist legislation that carried a minimum 5 year sentence and undoubtedly added them to all kinds of lists in perpetuity. That was not right. However the unfortunate mixture of the American 'I'm right therefore you're wrong!' debating style, where compromise is seen as failure, and the gun toting attitude of the protesters has lead to a perfect storm.

It appears you've been misinformed, Tank: I'd like to read your source. The Hammonds were convicted of an offence which carried a minimum sentence of five years. In fact there were multiple offenses, but there had been a deal in which the Hammonds would not serve any more than one five year sentence. The judge decided to ignore that and imposed lesser sentences, which the government appealed. On appeal, the finding was in favor of the government. See "What Happened In The Hammond Sentencing In Oregon? A Lawsplainer"

THIS!!!

A lot of people are also claiming double jeopardy, which pretty much proves no one knows shit about the concept of double jeopardy outside of previews for that shitty Ashley Judd movie no one actually watched.

 

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I could swear I heard something on TV about the Bundy brothers surrendering to serve out the rest of their sentence, but I can't find anything about it now.

The Bundys are true believers as far as I can tell; full of self-righteousness and unlikely to ever admit their cause is stuffed with sawdust. Most likely what you're recalling is a report of the surrender of the Hammonds, whom the Bundys and their gaggle of nitwits believe they're "defending."

The Hammonds have disavowed the militia goons pretty much since they took over the refuge (whose name roughly translates to "bad luck" in French), and had said they would serve out the sentences given them by the judge.

That would explain it, I got the players names confused.

but just play one song, maybe ABBA's Mamma Mia, over and over and over and over, continuously and at high volume.

That's too cruel and inhuman.  I'd go with the suggestion to play Coltrane to them, but nice and soft so as to make them all edgy and gay-panicked.
Sandy

  
"I think this is the prettiest world -- as long as you don't mind a little dying, how could there be a day in your whole life that doesn't have its splash of happiness?"  from The Kingfisher, by Mary Oliver

Tank

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Having read about this I largely support the protesters while wholly deploring their actions. As far as I understand it the two individuals were charged and found guilty of starting an unauthorized fire on government land. This got a relatively sort prison sentence. Before they could serve this the Government charged them under terrorist legislation that carried a minimum 5 year sentence and undoubtedly added them to all kinds of lists in perpetuity. That was not right. However the unfortunate mixture of the American 'I'm right therefore you're wrong!' debating style, where compromise is seen as failure, and the gun toting attitude of the protesters has lead to a perfect storm.

It appears you've been misinformed, Tank: I'd like to read your source. The Hammonds were convicted of an offence which carried a minimum sentence of five years. In fact there were multiple offenses, but there had been a deal in which the Hammonds would not serve any more than one five year sentence. The judge decided to ignore that and imposed lesser sentences, which the government appealed. On appeal, the finding was in favor of the government. See "What Happened In The Hammond Sentencing In Oregon? A Lawsplainer"
I can't find the article. I do recall that a judge had passed a shorter sentence and that the Government appealed and got the 5 year sentence. The article I read implied that there were two laws and that the first had no 'terrorist' element in it. If I come across the article again I'll post it here.
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
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'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett

Tank

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I could swear I heard something on TV about the Bundy brothers surrendering to serve out the rest of their sentence, but I can't find anything about it now.

The Bundys are true believers as far as I can tell; full of self-righteousness and unlikely to ever admit their cause is stuffed with sawdust. Most likely what you're recalling is a report of the surrender of the Hammonds, whom the Bundys and their gaggle of nitwits believe they're "defending."

The Hammonds have disavowed the militia goons pretty much since they took over the refuge (whose name roughly translates to "bad luck" in French), and had said they would serve out the sentences given them by the judge.

That would explain it, I got the players names confused.

but just play one song, maybe ABBA's Mamma Mia, over and over and over and over, continuously and at high volume.

That's too cruel and inhuman.  I'd go with the suggestion to play Coltrane to them, but nice and soft so as to make them all edgy and gay-panicked.
William Shatner. No contest!
If religions were TV channels atheism is turning the TV off.
“Religion is a culture of faith; science is a culture of doubt.” ― Richard P. Feynman
'It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die. That is true, it's called Life.' - Terry Pratchett

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William Shatner. No contest!

Oh no!  I'm an old school Trekkie and even I couldn't stand that.
Sandy

  
"I think this is the prettiest world -- as long as you don't mind a little dying, how could there be a day in your whole life that doesn't have its splash of happiness?"  from The Kingfisher, by Mary Oliver

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The Shatner idea has real potential. Good stuff! ;D

I think there's something fascinating about the way he tortures and murders the songs. In the UK right now, there's an ad that uses his massacre of "Bohemian Rhapsody." I actually enjoyed it the first couple of times I saw it.  :watching:

"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
— H. L. Mencken