Author Topic: Re: United States and Torture  (Read 1646 times)

Icarus

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Re: United States and Torture
« on: December 14, 2014, 12:16:09 AM »
If those who were tortured were actually complicit in the killing of Americans, or Christians or Jews or Hindus or their own countrymen and women or their own religion, then I am not overly sympathetic. The downside is that torture did not solve the problem nor even diminish it. In fact it may very well have exacerbated the problem. The further problem is that we did not know whether the captives were the actual bad guys, we merely believed that they were. Bottom line; it did more harm than good and it violated our so firmly held claim to superior civility.

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Re: United States and Torture
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2014, 01:58:13 AM »
In response to your question, sounds to me like he thinks those tactics are not productive.
I have no problem with that. I'm not trying to defend it. I agree that the US should not be torturing as a method of interrogation.
Fact is, we did. I do not feel bad for the bad guys on the shit end of it. That's all I'm saying.

I'm trying to understand you here, because to me you're being rather inconsistent. Why exactly is it do you now think that enhanced interrogation techniques torture isn't the best method?


I don't think I'm being inconsistent at all. I never stated that I thought torture was the best method. I said I simply didn't feel bad for those who were tortured.

Let me word it a little better: why do you think that the US should not be torturing as a method of interrogation? 

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Steeler

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Re: United States and Torture
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2014, 03:20:15 AM »
Simply put, if we are a civilized nation then maybe we should be a little more civil in our tactics.
I should say that it really isn't a big worry for me though in certain circumstances. If a politician I supported was in favor of those tactics, it would not be enough to sway my vote.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2014, 03:35:33 AM by Steeler »

Steeler

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Re: United States and Torture
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2014, 03:54:15 AM »
Although a year old, I thought this was an interesting read. I'm just throwing it out there for discussion. If true, it goes against the idea of nothing being gained.
Again, I AM NOT SUPPORTING, just adding to the discussion.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/10493913/Manhunt-how-the-CIA-traced-Osama-bin-Laden.html

Firebird

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Re: United States and Torture
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2014, 04:17:58 AM »
Although a year old, I thought this was an interesting read. I'm just throwing it out there for discussion. If true, it goes against the idea of nothing being gained.
Again, I AM NOT SUPPORTING, just adding to the discussion.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/10493913/Manhunt-how-the-CIA-traced-Osama-bin-Laden.html
One "senior manager" in the CIA. How about we check with someone who actually interrogated the suspects? Like one of the FBI agents who interviewed Zubaydah, who completely disputes the assertion that torture is what caused him to talk:

My Tortured Decision

As far as Mohammed goes, here's a Fox News (of all news agencies!) report about the exaggeration of intelligence gathered due to the torture of him:

CIA misrepresented key aspects of brutal interrogation program, according to Senate report





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Steeler

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Re: United States and Torture
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2014, 04:43:12 AM »
Well looky there, fair and balanced! :D
Good reads.

Recusant

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Re: United States and Torture
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2017, 07:41:07 PM »
Unfortunately the first part of this thread was lost, probably forever, in the crash. It began as a discussion of the publicly released portions of the Senate report on the use of torture by the CIA.

For anybody who is interested, there is an excellent series of stories from The Guardian about the background of how the report was produced (including the CIA's efforts to hinder the investigation), and the fallout that resulted from the report. The articles are long, but I'm finding them very interesting and worthwhile. The series begins with "Inside the fight to reveal the CIA's torture secrets" | The Guardian.
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No one

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Re: Re: United States and Torture
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2017, 09:01:32 PM »
Torture is not a means of extracting information. It is a means of exacting revenge.
If you are willing to dole it out, don't cry when it bites your ass!

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Re: Re: United States and Torture
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2017, 09:10:02 PM »
Torture is not a means of extracting information. It is a means of exacting revenge.
If you are willing to dole it out, don't cry when it bites your ass!

It can create martyrs as well.  ::) 
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No one

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Re: Re: United States and Torture
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2017, 10:08:45 PM »
And those martyrs emerge from the crybabies. Those that have the "courage" to dish it out, but behave like petulant children when it comes home to roost.

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Re: United States and Torture
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2017, 10:25:37 PM »
Lex talonis isn't the answer.
"Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration — courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and above all, love of the truth."
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Re: Re: United States and Torture
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2017, 10:27:25 PM »
If they are crybabies then they aren't something to be emulated but people create and embellish stories about the deaths of others, especially in those circumstances, making heroes and martyrs out of them by their communities.

Does torture extract information? Not anything reliable, apparently.
Is torturing others misplaced anger? Yes.

I would rather go for the jugular, that is, destroy their ideology completely. It's way more difficult than cutting off fingers, waterboarding and keeping naked people in stress positions.
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No one

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Re: Re: United States and Torture
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2017, 10:45:26 PM »
I am talking torture in general. Against anyone, not just any particular sect. If you are a sadistic serial killer who gets off inflicting pain on your victims. No have no right to cry when the tides turn and someone even more sadistic treats you the same in the stoney lonesome.

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Re: Re: United States and Torture
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2017, 10:51:16 PM »
I am talking torture in general. Against anyone, not just any particular sect. If you are a sadistic serial killer who gets off inflicting pain on your victims. No have no right to cry when the tides turn and someone even more sadistic treats you the same in the stoney lonesome.

Been watching Dexter lately?
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